Russia v Ukraine

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

 Could say the reverse about you, why is someone who's always talking about Gaza so quiet about Ukraine? 

 

Personally, I don't think people are being racist when they make an internal distinction, they do it because people's brains are programmed to look for threats, and Russia is a threat.

 

If Georgia or Latvia were duking it out with Ukraine people would be less arsed I reckon, instead they're worried that Russia won't stop there. Plus they have enough Nukes to destroy the planet.

 

I haven't been quite on Ukraine. I've questioned our leaders response to the invasion of Ukraine. That does not mean I lack empathy for Ukrainians caught up in war. 

[SasaS]

New 1,580 confirmed names added to Mediazona's count of Russian deaths in Ukraine for the past 15 days, which is a continuation of fairly big jump (I think by about 30 percent) registered in the previous 30 days compared to average since October.

 

They didn't specifically comment on that. The total is now 49,281 (estimated 40 to 60 percent of the actual number. Estimate based on male excess deaths is now over 95k.

 

https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/11/casualties_eng

[TheSire]

23 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

 Could say the reverse about you, why is someone who's always talking about Gaza so quiet about Ukraine? 

 

Personally, I don't think people are being racist when they make an internal distinction, they do it because people's brains are programmed to look for threats, and Russia is a threat.

 

If Georgia or Latvia were duking it out with Ukraine people would be less arsed I reckon, instead they're worried that Russia won't stop there. Plus they have enough Nukes to destroy the planet.

Second to last paragraph is a good point. You can't mind read that people are racist because they're less active on another thread. It's really arrogant thinking and you never really know what people are thinking so we shouldn't make assumptions. 

[TheHowieLama]

Should do the trick.

 

 

Chechnya 'bans music that is too fast or too slow'

The Russian republic is said to have ruled that all music should "correspond to a tempo of 80 to 116 beats per minute" - meaning all western rave and techno music would be banned.

 

The republic's leader Ramzan Kadyrov instructed culture minister Musa Dadayev to make Chechen music "conform to the Chechen mentality," the Moscow Times said.

"Borrowing musical culture from other peoples is inadmissible," Mr Dadayev reportedly said.

Chechnya has been a vocal supporter of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

It has also seen a wave of anti-LGBTQ+ violence in recent years, including reports of anti-gay purges, that the UN described as "acts of persecution and violence on an unprecedented scale".

[Bruce Spanner]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Should do the trick.

 

 

Chechnya 'bans music that is too fast or too slow'

The Russian republic is said to have ruled that all music should "correspond to a tempo of 80 to 116 beats per minute" - meaning all western rave and techno music would be banned.

 

The republic's leader Ramzan Kadyrov instructed culture minister Musa Dadayev to make Chechen music "conform to the Chechen mentality," the Moscow Times said.

"Borrowing musical culture from other peoples is inadmissible," Mr Dadayev reportedly said.

Chechnya has been a vocal supporter of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

It has also seen a wave of anti-LGBTQ+ violence in recent years, including reports of anti-gay purges, that the UN described as "acts of persecution and violence on an unprecedented scale".

 

Doesn't get enough attention that mad cunt.

 

Proper basket case.

[SasaS]

I think we can all get behind the idea of music at the proper BPM.

[TheHowieLama]

"I remember the BPM riots."

[polymerpunkah]

What's next? Porridge that's too hot? too cold?

 

 

[Section_31]

Kadyrov and Neil Mellor have never been seen in the same room.

 

 

[SasaS]

Insane if they can do that. What war was NATO being prepared for if air defense stockpiles are empty after less than two years of limited support?

 

 

[Ne Moe Imya]

I don't think NATO stockpiles are empty, at least if we include the US stockpiles.

 

The issue is that Trump and the Republican congress who are so scared to cross him have decided not to give any more of it to Ukraine. 

 

It boggles the mind how foolish the US is being here. If Johnson manages to hang on to power long enough to block a vote on further aid, the Russians might actually be able to squeak out something that they can sell to their people as a win. And then in 5 years they'll be back for more.

[TheSire]

4 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I don't think NATO stockpiles are empty, at least if we include the US stockpiles.

 

The issue is that Trump and the Republican congress who are so scared to cross him have decided not to give any more of it to Ukraine. 

 

It boggles the mind how foolish the US is being here. If Johnson manages to hang on to power long enough to block a vote on further aid, the Russians might actually be able to squeak out something that they can sell to their people as a win. And then in 5 years they'll be back for more.

It seems mostly Bulgaria and the Czech Republic that are stepping up to help. Its frightening to imagine how things would have ended up if we had this Republican party during WWII. Trump saying how smart Hitler us etc.

[Section_31]

27 minutes ago, TheSire said:

It seems mostly Bulgaria and the Czech Republic that are stepping up to help. Its frightening to imagine how things would have ended up if we had this Republican party during WWII. Trump saying how smart Hitler us etc.

 

They sort of did to an extent, Roosevelt was very much an outlier and they only got involved in both world wars due to being attacked first. The top echelons of American society though have always been reluctant to take action unless there was oil involved or dirty commies threatening to spread their socialist poison and take their money. 

 

Turds didn't even help us in the Falklands. Marines and Paras forced to fucking tab and yomp to Stanley while the seventh fleet was in Honolulu eating pineapple pizza and shooting hoops. 

[SasaS]

5 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I don't think NATO stockpiles are empty, at least if we include the US stockpiles.

 

The issue is that Trump and the Republican congress who are so scared to cross him have decided not to give any more of it to Ukraine. 

 

It boggles the mind how foolish the US is being here. If Johnson manages to hang on to power long enough to block a vote on further aid, the Russians might actually be able to squeak out something that they can sell to their people as a win. And then in 5 years they'll be back for more.

 

Putin said some six months ago they have emptied themselves out, I think he was right. We should take more seriously what the man is saying, it isn't just utter bollocks all the time. By empty, I take it we mean what they can spare for Ukraine, they are stupid enough to keep stuff for the upcoming war against Ruritania.

One thing people don't appreciate enough is, if they allow Russia to prevail, this will not end only in destruction of what is left of world order and huge escalation of threat for anybody with any Russians within their borders or anybody wedged between Russian territories and/or interests, Ukraine will, as it gets more desperate, also go progressively more rogue and all bets would be off. Russia has spilled too much blood and I don't think they would have to make up links any longer between Ukrainians and nasty shit that would go on in Russia.

 

How strengthening Ukraine's defensive capabilities would not be seen as an urgent and absolute  strategic imperative is beyond my comprehension.

[TheHowieLama]

 We should take more seriously what the man is saying, it isn't just utter bollocks all the time. 

 

While I think this is true in some cases, and certainly the US could provide far more airpower - albeit not without taking a more active role, in most cases he overplays his hand massively especially in statements designed for the Russian public.

 

 

That is combined with NATO countries being somewhat air poor comparatively. I don't think there is another NATO country besides the US with a top 5 haul of Air Forced war planes.

 

This from January of this year.

 

 

In a year marked by heightened tensions, Nato air forces intercepted Russian military aircraft more than 300 times in 2023, with the majority of incidents unfolding over the Baltic Sea. 

The alliance’s ongoing air-policing missions aim to respond to unpredictable manoeuvres by Russian planes approaching Nato airspace, emphasising the role of air defence in the face of evolving security challenges.

The alliance’s air-policing missions, triggered by signs of Russian planes approaching alliance airspace in unconventional manners, show Nato’s commitment to safeguarding its members.

Acting Nato spokesperson Dylan White emphasised the severity of the security situation in Europe amid Russia’s conflict with Ukraine. White stated: “Nato fighter jets are on duty around the clock, ready to scramble in case of suspicious or unannounced flights near the airspace of our allies. Air policing is an important way in which Nato provides security for our Allies.”

[SasaS]

You have a feeling it's not just Trump and the Republicans, it's all politics everywhere, so incredibly frustrating. It's like constantly herding cats.

 

I don't understand what the West thinks here any longer, I am starting to suspect they would like to end the conflict because it is seriously questioning various truths about defensive capabilities a lot of investment and belief in strategic advance rests upon.

 

As various analysts point out, this war is fairly dynamic and priorities changes almost every three months. It has shown , for example, that Western productions capacities are woefully inadequate, some of the weapons can become obsolete even before they enter the fray properly. For example, it is clear the US is behind in drone technology when it comes to ability for tactical massive use, some precision guided munitions are nowhere near what they are cracked up to be - expensive laser guided Excalibur shells are apparently not worth their $300,000 price tag, HIMARS are no longer considered all that deadly and so on. Maybe Western EW would prove to be expensive fanciful folly next, I don't know

 

I have a feeling this war is now seen by many in the military and industrial complex as some inconvenient theater unmasking one widely accepted truth after another.

 

On the political level, I just give up. Do not get it.

 

[TheHowieLama]

I don't understand what the West thinks here any longer, I am starting to suspect they would like to end the conflict because it is seriously questioning various truths about defensive capabilities a lot of investment and belief in strategic advance rests upon.

 

@SasaS

I think the Russians capabilities have not just been questioned but been laid bare.

Don't think it is surprising in any way that the 2nd largest Air force in the world has superiority in their own backyard. It would be unthinkable for them to not.

 

NATO is made up of a bunch of countries who have Force plane numbers in the hundreds. Literally. Egypt has more.

[SasaS]

31 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I don't understand what the West thinks here any longer, I am starting to suspect they would like to end the conflict because it is seriously questioning various truths about defensive capabilities a lot of investment and belief in strategic advance rests upon.

 

@SasaS

I think the Russians capabilities have not just been questioned but been laid bare.

Don't think it is surprising in any way that the 2nd largest Air force in the world has superiority in their own backyard. It would be unthinkable for them to not.

 

NATO is made up of a bunch of countries who have Force plane numbers in the hundreds. Literally. Egypt has more.

 

I am not talking about air superiority.

[TheHowieLama]

14 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I am not talking about air superiority.

 

My bad then, looked like the article you posted was about exactly that.

[SasaS]

36 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

My bad then, looked like the article you posted was about exactly that.

 

It's a Twitter link, illustrating how degraded Ukrainian air defense is now, which is not what it used to be. The rest is fairly obviously not (just) about air warfare, but along the lines of the current discussion of willingness to assist Ukraine, going beyond the Trump-initiated blockade. 

 

Latest news is that there was an emergency sale of air defense materials and ammunition. It could have  probably happened earlier, where there is a will to work around the House blockade, there is most likely a way, or at least partial ways.

[TheHowieLama]

That is questioning the stamina of an organization like NATO. It was designed as a safeguard, a deterrant.

I don't think there was ever a strategy for a long term engagement via NATO in any conflict within the organization itself.

 

There are more folks in the US questioning military spending and involvement than just the Republicans in Congress. That same questioning is happening in every country.

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

That is questioning the stamina of an organization like NATO. It was designed as a safeguard, a deterrant.

I don't think there was ever a strategy for a long term engagement via NATO in any conflict within the organization itself.

 

There are more folks in the US questioning military spending and involvement than just the Republicans in Congress. That same questioning is happening in every country.

 

True.

 

But a long term strategic decision was made in March 2022 to support Ukraine in the defensive war against Russia. Everyone, by which I mean everybody involving in planning and decision making, so, everyone realized by the summer of that year it is going to be a commitment spanning over several years with an ultimate goal of creating a new Ukrainian army as a force operating in accordance with NATO military standards, capable of acting as a deterrent to the second or third military force in the world. 

 

Same as Russia realized at the end of March 2022 this will take years. And started planning and reorganizing accordingly. 

[TheHowieLama]

everyone realized by the summer of that year it is going to be a commitment spanning over several years with an ultimate goal of creating a new Ukrainian army as a force operating in accordance with NATO military standards,

 

Again, everyone involved in that organization may have realized that but their organization has never and will never ultimately deal with a timeline like that on an active basis. Only individual gubmints can and we are seeing what level of commitment those folks have only now. That could well be different.

 

Creating a UKR army to NATO standards is a decade long effort - in peace time.

 

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

everyone realized by the summer of that year it is going to be a commitment spanning over several years with an ultimate goal of creating a new Ukrainian army as a force operating in accordance with NATO military standards,

 

Again, everyone involved in that organization may have realized that but their organization has never and will never ultimately deal with a timeline like that on an active basis. Only individual gubmints can and we are seeing what level of commitment those folks have only now. That could well be different.

 

Creating a UKR army to NATO standards is a decade long effort - in peace time.

 

 

Here I mean the USA and NATO as its vehicle. It's not about creating Ukrainian army according to NATO standards in two years. It's about realizing the actual immensity of task at hand and planning and acting accordingly. 

[TheHowieLama]

26 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Here I mean the USA and NATO as its vehicle. It's not about creating Ukrainian army according to NATO standards in two years. It's about realizing the actual immensity of task at hand and planning and acting accordingly. 

 

Well I don't think the reaction to the invasion ( re: the March 22 realization) is necessarily tied to what is happening now and the planning at that stage would have been far more acute. Let's face it, most thought it would be over in months - that included US intel. It was said to be a matter of days that was passed along to the bigwigs.

 

 

I mean the USA

 

This will ultimately be a test as to the validity of multi national organizations like NATO and the UN.

As I said, there is very little appetite for increased military activity here, that is across all parties.

Alot changes in a couple of years.