LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[WaltonRed]

I see full logic behind the club wanting to set in place a framework and philosophy which will serve us long in to the future.

 

We have paid an absolute fortune in sacking managers and their staff in the past few years. What happens when you sack the manager? You have to rip it all up and start again, employ new people, sign new players and start another 5 year plan.

 

The idea of a strategy and plan which goes beyond one manager makes perfect sense. That's what Barca have in place now, which is why when Pep walks out the door Tito his second in command will walk straight in and probably not a lot will change as the framework and foundations are already in place. You mention Shanks but his philosophy and the structure he implemented meant that ready made replacements were already working in the club, from Paisley, to Fagan, to Kenny, and to a lesser extent Evans.

 

Our club lacks an identity now and a long term structure and philosophy needs to be implemented and that will take time. The current approach clearly isn't working so I have no problem in them wanting to start something different and look at a new model. However, how they go about doing that remains to be seen. They have to get these appointments right and only time will tell if they do. Hiring Martinez is a ballsy move so they've well and truly put their neck on the line, but if he is to be the man then we need to get behind him.

 

I agree with what your saying Randy, i've no problem with a framework coming in but you cannot, simply cannot expect the manager of Liverpool FC to not buy the players or have control over the team.

 

You're just asking for trouble.

 

Comolli didnt work, if you ask me it wasnt just him it was the whole notion of DoF. It doesnt work in England.

 

If the DoF is just there to sort transfers and wages out then sound but come out and let us know his remit and the boss's remit so we all know where we stand cos otherwise the shit will hit the fan soon enough

[ngogswilly]

Will be interesting to see if we have much to play with as regards players this summer.

 

20/30 million might be enough to improve us if spent well, anything less though I'm really not sure.

 

I have a feeling FSG are thinking, Martinez will work miracles with a pittance but not sure its going to be as easy as they think. History tends to prove unfortunately you need to spend money to challenge for tops spots. Obviously there have been exceptions but they're hardly plentiful.

[Bogman]

Times Sport ‏@TimesSport

Confusion reigns as sources close to FSG deny claims by Dave Whelan that #lfc have offered Roberto Martinez manager's job at Anfield #wafc

[Horus]

If the manager has no say in purchasing of players, then he has no reason to moan when we don't buy any.

[MichaelThomas]

Times Sport ‏@TimesSport

Confusion reigns as sources close to FSG deny claims by Dave Whelan that #lfc have offered Roberto Martinez manager's job at Anfield #wafc

 

They've probably offered him "head coach" job. FSG probably see manager as "general manager" or dof.

[diamondjoe]

Why don't fsg just fucking sack Martinez now, pay up his contract and save us this next season coming. Can't have a manger coming into a club of our size that has no stature in the game, it will not work.

[Horus]

Times Sport ‏@TimesSport

Confusion reigns as sources close to FSG deny claims by Dave Whelan that #lfc have offered Roberto Martinez manager's job at Anfield #wafc

 

Of course FSG will deny it. Why say they've made him an offer when they're not expecting an answer till Tuesday.

 

Cunts to a man.

[Gym Beglin]

I agree with what your saying Randy, i've no problem with a framework coming in but you cannot, simply cannot expect the manager of Liverpool FC to not buy the players or have control over the team.

 

You're just asking for trouble.

 

Comolli didnt work, if you ask me it wasnt just him it was the whole notion of DoF. It doesnt work in England.

 

If the DoF is just there to sort transfers and wages out then sound but come out and let us know his remit and the boss's remit so we all know where we stand cos otherwise the shit will hit the fan soon enough

 

There is no reason whatsoever why the system cannot work.

But if this is the case then we really, really, have to lower the profile of the names we expect to attract to such a coaching role.

 

If it works, then it will revolutionise football management as we know it. You have to applaud FSG for that, it's a brave, brave move and it would have been a lot easier for them to just appoint someone else, same old, same old. But why should they? They can see it hasnt been working for the best part of 20 years, and they can see man united winning everything because they have stability. FSG are trying to create long-term stability.

 

Quite frankly though, it needs someone like Pako as 'manager' in this role, and then someone like Benitez or Van Gaal above him, making the investments and setting up the framwork and dealing with the owners. But I'd accept Martinez in that role, I just don't know if the players will. THAT's the biggest risk, Im not sure Martinez will control this group of players and invigorate them.

[Randy Marsh]

It wouldn't at all surprise me if Whelan being a gobby cunt could well scupper Martinez's chance of getting this job. If they see him running to SSN every time they have a conversation they could well full the whole deal off completely.

[Bogman]

flmao

 

Rory Smith ‏@RorySmithTimes

Liverpool have not made Roberto Martinez a formal offer.

[Horus]

flmao

 

Rory Smith ‏@RorySmithTimes

Liverpool have not made Roberto Martinez a formal offer.

 

The key word is formal. A verbal offer is not considered formal.

[ngogswilly]

They might not have made him an offer yet but I'd say its looking fairly likely they will at this point.

[FanchesterCity]

And DRIVEL is exactly what it is - there's very little sense at all in any of his posts. How on earth anyone is taking him seriously is beyond me.

 

It may not be popular reading - granted.

It is sadly alarmingly accurate.

 

You have to learn to separate the distaste from the reality. They're two different things.

 

Liverpool is European brand that makes Fenway's portfolio appear global rather than American.

Their motivation isn't necessarily a bad thing and some of their goals are 100% in line with what the fans would like to see (Like increased revenues, wider brand recognition and bigger games)

 

However, they are an investment group and not a charitable benefactor. It beggars belief that anybody could / would think otherwise.

 

If you think my summary of reasons why they could well choose Martinez are wrong, I'd be very welcome to hear why YOU think they're going down this path (or not choosing to refute DW's revelations).

 

It's not for his glittering stats is it?

It's not for his world wide celebrity status is it?

He's not the only one with an alleged 'attractive play' philosophy is he?

And it's unlikely he's the only manager who'd want the job - I'm fairly sure others would be interested.

 

So what's left?

They want someone who they think will do the best with a limited amount of money.

 

Is that bullshit logic, you're deluded.

[Cij]

As it became increasingly obvious over the past few days that Roberto Martinez is going to be our next manager, I have been trying to work out what qualities have attracted FSG to him as he certainly would not be my preferred candidate.

 

It has repeatedly been pointed out that Wigan have only narrowly avoided the drop for the past three seasons and Martinez has finished lower in the league than his predecessors - understandably this hasn't instilled a lot of confidence in our supporters about his ability to successfully take up the hotseat at a much higher profile club.

 

However, I was surprised to learn that during Martinez's three year tenure at Wigan they have taken in almost £10.5m more than they have paid out in transfer fees. Personally I think this paints his achievements in a more flattering light - despite having repeatedly lost his most valuable players (resulting in a significant net profit on transfers), Martinez has managed to keep the team's performance consistent. Doing a lot more with less if you like. This wasn't the norm under Bruce or Jewell.

 

Despite spending more than £35m net last season we only managed to finish 9 points ahead of Wigan. I hate the way the media constantly drone on about Moneyball when they talk about our owners but I do think they are adopting a business / analytical approach to the appointment of our next manager.

 

In terms of points per pound spent, Martinez has consistently achieved a return that would rival almost anyone in the division. Most people now realise that FSG are not going to pump vast sums of money into LFC and "efficiency" appears to be their sacred cow. Martinez, in fairness to him, has shown that he can deliver a certain return even without the benefit of investment.

 

Traditionally the biggest clubs in England have sought to appoint managers with a track record of success / silverware. However, the advent of the Premier League / Champions League has meant that trophies are increasingly being won by a small pool of elite clubs who enjoy the largest revenue streams. I suspect that FSG have attempted to objectively 'value' the achievements of managers at smallers clubs and have focused on the returns that they have generated from the resources at their disposal. The logic is presumably to establish which managers have achieved 'success' through managerial skill rather than financial might. On this basis, Martinez has delivered excellent returns.

 

In terms of other factors that might make Martinez attractive to our owners, he is a bit of a media darling and FSG may feel this would help repair our tarnished image, he is presumably on a relatively modest salary at Wigan and FSG have previously indicated their desire to reduce our wage bill, the concept of working under a DOF will not be so alien to somebody from Spain, his teams are frequently praised for the "attractive" brand of football they play and his side's performances generally improve in the latter half of the season which arguably suggests that his coaching delivers results once the new players have had an opportunity to absorb his methods and bed in.

 

Time will tell whether he will be a success and it is a very big gamble on the owner's part. I am particularly anxious about his total lack of European experience but I guess he will have to learn as he goes. I am prepared to give him a fair crack.

[Bogman]

Stephen Martin ‏@stephen1martin

Far as I'm told, #lfc have been planning on approaching Villas Boas since he confirmed interest. Surprised if they don't go through with it.

[Skully]

It wouldn't at all surprise me if Whelan being a gobby cunt could well scupper Martinez's chance of getting this job. If they see him running to SSN every time they have a conversation they could well full the whole deal off completely.

 

I agree & lets hope so. Also the way he speaks never has a chairman fought less to keep hold of a "highly rated" manager.....

[silverlining]

As I said, they had their had made their mind up to get RM in all along.

Everything else, the supposed shortlist of 12 then 6 was utter bullshit, did they even interview anyone else before offering it to RM.

Good on DW for inadvertantly revealing these wank yanks for being the little billy bullshitters they are.

Ill get behind RM but the owners conduct has been fucking shocking in all this all along, treating the fans like fucking idiots.

The system they want in place is fucking wank and I hope RM fights it all the way, we are not fucking barca, this isnt Spain and neither do we play baseball.

It wont fucking work, the DOF transfer monkey shit didnt work the first time, it ended in failure, bellwhiffs like Downing, Carroll and Henderson for the price of an Alonso, Torres and a Mascherano, two people sacked including KD and an 8th place finish.

Never mind kd finishing eigth, the owners are showing relegation form, even Venkies think they are cunts.

DW being a twat throughout and still comes up smelling of roses compared to them, FSG make your choices but dont fucking insult our intelligence again you corporate fucks.

Good luck RM, you are gonna need it being in the middle of the clusterfuck between the owners and the fans, bring your lube.

 

While I do have some sympathy for some of your points - the ones I can understand anyway - I don't think the bit in bold stands up.

 

Downing and Henderson aren't proof that a DOF role doesn't work; they're proof that Commolli and Kenny wasted fucking millions on shit players. If they'd spent £80m on better players than Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing, they'd both still be in a job.

[FanchesterCity]

The key word is formal. A verbal offer is not considered formal.

 

I think you'll find a verbal offer is an offer and it's legally binding.

 

I doubt they've offered it yet, more likely they've spelled out the real detail of the terms (and how much control he'd get) - which is then for Martinez to accept or negotiate. Call it giving him a proposal.

 

I'm still a bit stunned that Dave Whelan's the number one source of info.

[Lee909]

Sky sports

@SkySports: Steven Gerrard admits he would support Roberto Martinez if he is named Liverpool's new manager. #LFC

[silverlining]

Sky sports

@SkySports: Steven Gerrard admits he would support Roberto Martinez if he is named Liverpool's new manager. #LFC

 

Hardly going to say anything else is he?

[SAXON]

I would much rather have AVB, but would obviously support Martinez should he become manager.

[Horus]

I think you'll find a verbal offer is an offer and it's legally binding.

 

I doubt they've offered it yet, more likely they've spelled out the real detail of the terms (and how much control he'd get) - which is then for Martinez to accept or negotiate.

 

I'm still a bit stunned that Dave Whelan's the number one source of info.

 

Mate, you can spout shite on all matter of fucking subjects, and you do, continually. Verbal offers are impossible to prove, so unless it's in writing, then it's not classed as formal. Do us all a favour and fuck off you interminable cunt.

[dickie mint]

Sky sports

@SkySports: Steven Gerrard admits he would support Roberto Martinez if he is named Liverpool's new manager. #LFC

 

 

Until him and the other clique decide otherwise.

[Jairzinho]

Conflicting reports from the BBC.

 

@BBC: "Oh fuck its really happening."

[Mr T]

Bring back Roy Hodgson.