LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[WaltonRed]

I feel sorry for him, ripped to pieces before he's even took the job

 

I'm not happy about it but some of the shite being chatted is embarrasing

 

Best fans in the world

[FanchesterCity]

Martinez was only being linked with Liverpool once Dalglish was sacked.

 

Yes I take your point. I think there's some overlap between them being wary of appointing Kenny, then starting to question that choice, sacking and then expressing interest in RM.

 

I think it's likely (though unproven) that by the time they started to question their choice of Kenny, they'll have also asked 'if not Kenny, then who?"

[Mathewbet1]

[TheHowieLama]

I think Martinez could be a better manager than Commoli was a DoF. Maybe a fair shake better. So if we get a DoF who does that gig better than Dalglish managed over the last 18 months - poshibilities?

[FanchesterCity]

We're not 'building a bastion of invincibility' anymore, but a brand. We're not looking for the best, but someone who is better than Hodgson (maybe, possibly), just not Rafa (again). We are expected to lower our expectations and I just cannot. Not anymore.

 

Happy Istanbul day.

 

Yep, that's precisely it. For FSG, the 'winning' is a means to an end, not the end in itself.

Their whole business model is based on exploiting the Liverpool name - to attract increased sponsorship, increased TV revenues, and increased merchandise sales. The image has to be right, from the players to the manager, and there can't be any negative publicity like the Suarez stuff - even if it's unfounded, bad press is bad press.

 

The FA cup means nothing to them. There's no money in it. The only thing that matters is CL. Without it, the model will fail. With it, it might work.

 

There cannot be any new stadium.

There cannot be any improvement of Anfield.

There cannot be too much more spending.

Not without CL.

 

They've completely underestimated the difficulty in getting top 4 (and the likely cost to get there) and are now in a catch 22 of not wanting to throw money at the problem, but desperately needing a return to top 4 within the next 2 years).

 

It's just like Randy Lerner's situation. He tossed a fair bit of money into the pot to get top 4, and it didn't pan out. Once he'd grasped how difficult the task is and the money required, it all went wrong.

 

I used to work for an American company, and I kid you not, they were great, BUT... they had such a strange view of Europe. They believed that it was one big market. They couldn't grasp that the difference between UK and Italy is 100 times great than the difference between any two States in the US.

 

That's why their naive understanding of 'soccer' is costing them dear. Happened with Lerner, happened with G&H, happened with the Glaziers and it's happening with FSG.

 

Making money from our clubs is very hard. If they'd done their homework properly, they'd probably never have bought Villa, Liverpool or United.

[Randy Marsh]

This isn't me preaching to people, it's more a case of me trying to convince myself as much as anything else.

 

They sack Kenny because they are not prepared to allow cup success to mask 8th place and failure in the league. This would suggest they are trying to shake the club up and implement a strategy that promotes success in the future. Why would they then appoint someone who they didn't believe would improve on the previous managers performance? They'd be left in the same position as this summer in 12months time if the next manager wasn't successful so why would they want that to happen? They and the people advising them must see something in Martinez that tells them he will flourish if given the chance and resources. That's me trying to look at it positively anyway. It's in their interests for the club to be successful.

[Coro]

Yep, that's precisely it. For FSG, the 'winning' is a means to an end, not the end in itself.

 

Absolutely spot on.

[TheHowieLama]

Brown shoes

 

 

 

I feel sorry for him, ripped to pieces before he's even took the job

 

 

[Coro]

This isn't me preaching to people, it's more a case of me trying to convince myself as much as anything else.

 

They sack Kenny because they are not prepared to allow cup success to mask 8th place and failure in the league. This would suggest they are trying to shake the club up and implement a strategy that promotes success in the future. Why would they then appoint someone who they didn't believe would improve on the previous managers performance? They'd be left in the same position as this summer in 12months time if the next manager wasn't successful so why would they want that to happen? They and the people advising them must see something in Martinez that tells them he will flourish if given the chance and resources. That's me trying to look at it positively anyway. It's in their interests for the club to be successful.

 

They're here to make a premium. Anyone who doesn't fall in line only gets in the way.

 

Football is secondary.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Fuck me, we're Aston Villa.

[WaltonRed]

If the old twat is spot on about Van Gaal and the boss not signing the players then fuck me we are in for more shite

 

 

 

John W Henry and Tom Werner, Liverpool's principal owner and chairman respectively, have held talks with Roberto Martínez about the manager's job at Anfield and will travel to England next week to try to conclude the search for a successor to Kenny Dalglish.

 

The Wigan Athletic manager interrupted a holiday in the Caribbean to meet the Liverpool hierarchy in Miami on Thursday. Martínez is the first candidate on Liverpool's shortlist to undergo a formal interview with Henry and Werner but will not be the last, with the owners intending to speak to several managers in England next week.

 

Details of the Miami meeting were revealed by Wigan's chairman, Dave Whelan, who had set Martínez a deadline to decide on his future amid further interest from Aston Villa and also indicated the extent of the managerial change Fenway Sports Group envisages for Liverpool. Whelan claimed the next Liverpool manager will not be responsible for signings as FSG looks to install a director of football-type figure, expected to be Louis van Gaal, and limit the new man's influence to the football pitch.

 

Whelan said on Thursday: "I got a phone call this morning and Roberto was on his way to America. He's flown to Miami and is meeting Liverpool now, as we speak. I didn't ask him what he has decided to do but I told him I wanted it sorted out sooner rather than later. If it's yes to Liverpool, I will accept it and get on with life. But if it's no, I'll be delighted."

 

Martínez also remains on Villa's shortlist despite rejecting the Midlands club last summer and Whelan, who said he would demand at least £2m-3m compensation for his manager, added: "I would love him to stay, I hope he will stay but I told him I need an answer in the next seven days."

 

Liverpool held informal talks with Martínez last weekend and still wish to speak to the Swansea City manager, Brendan Rodgers, who declined their offer of an interview last Friday due to reservations over the wide-ranging search being conducted by FSG and the potential ramifications at the Liberty Stadium. It is believed Rodgers would be interested if it was clear he was on a shortlist for the Liverpool job, and that is the case.

 

FSG has also made progress with Van Gaal, the former Ajax, Barcelona, AZ Alkmaar and Bayern Munich coach, who it believes can head the new management structure intended for Anfield. The 60-year-old is FSG's choice to replace the former director of football Damien Comolli, albeit under a different title and with different responsibilities.

 

The position is Van Gaal's to accept or decline. The Dutchman, who has also been linked with a coaching role at Lazio, is keen on a move to Merseyside and he may yet ask to be considered for the managerial vacancy at Liverpool.

 

Van Gaal would want greater control as a sporting director than Comolli ever had at Anfield and, in Whelan's view, FSG is prepared to grant it.

 

The Wigan chairman said: "My information is that the new Liverpool manager will not be given full responsibility of the football department. There will be somebody else signing players, and they might not necessarily be the choice of the manager.

 

"My advice to Roberto is to think very carefully about this, but Liverpool are a big club and I hope that they remain one of the big clubs. But I have to say from what I am hearing the new Liverpool set-up on the football side goes well beyond the norm even with a director of football."

 

Liverpool have confirmed Billy Hogan, formerly the managing director of Fenway Sports Management, as the club's new chief commercial officer and Jen Chang as their new corporate relations and communications director. Chang was previously the senior editor for football-related content at Sports Illustrated in

[Alan Sex]

A few years aside, Ranieri is as inspiring as an Italian Hodgson.

[TheHowieLama]

They're here to make a premium. Anyone who doesn't fall in line only gets in the way.

 

Football is secondary.

 

Heh - only one fella has ever made a 'premium". He is the honorary lifetime Prezzie - add up the silver.

[TheDrowningMan]

I don't have a problem with the transfer aspect, it's the way it is done in Europe and beyond. I'm sure the manager will have input, but the lion's share of the responsibility will be higher up.

 

We're used to the sort of catch-all wheeling and dealing British managerial standard or an uneasy halfway house with the way the DoF role tends to be implemented in this country, but Steve Bruce and Martin O'Neill have far more of a say in transfers than Pep Guardiola or Jupp Heynckes. I should imagine Mourinho is different but, well, he's Mourinho.

[TheDrowningMan]

A few years aside, Ranieri is as inspiring as an Italian Hodgson.

 

Pessimistic as I am about Martinez, Ranieri and his tried and trusted glass ceiling of mediocrity is proof that it could be worse.

[FanchesterCity]

This isn't me preaching to people, it's more a case of me trying to convince myself as much as anything else.

 

They sack Kenny because they are not prepared to allow cup success to mask 8th place and failure in the league. This would suggest they are trying to shake the club up and implement a strategy that promotes success in the future. Why would they then appoint someone who they didn't believe would improve on the previous managers performance? They'd be left in the same position as this summer in 12months time if the next manager wasn't successful so why would they want that to happen? They and the people advising them must see something in Martinez that tells them he will flourish if given the chance and resources. That's me trying to look at it positively anyway. It's in their interests for the club to be successful.

 

Of course they want Liverpool to do well. In fact, they insist on it. But their definition of doing well may not match that of some fans.

 

'Win a trophy' is a nice platitude to the fans, but the only real goal they have is CL. CL is the lifeblood of a club the stature of Liverpool. Without it, everything falls apart. You could win the FA cup and the League cup for the next 20 years and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

 

Their goals are:

 

1) Get CL at all costs (on the pitch)

2) Project a classy, heritage club image (in the way Arsenal try to do).

 

There's no real goal to win a domestic trophy from a business perspective. It just doesn't make any real money, and if there's even the slightest chance it might compromise CL, ditch the cup.... another reason why Kenny's realisation that CL wasn't doable and thus going for the cups wasn't well received by FSG.

 

Once they get CL (regularly) they can start building as per their original vision.

 

They simply made the huge mistake of buying a consistent CL performer having a minor blip, and then discovering the true cost of getting back out of that blip just at a time when some other teams are putting together some serious competition.

[kalasoma]

This isn't me preaching to people, it's more a case of me trying to convince myself as much as anything else.

 

They sack Kenny because they are not prepared to allow cup success to mask 8th place and failure in the league. This would suggest they are trying to shake the club up and implement a strategy that promotes success in the future. Why would they then appoint someone who they didn't believe would improve on the previous managers performance? They'd be left in the same position as this summer in 12months time if the next manager wasn't successful so why would they want that to happen? They and the people advising them must see something in Martinez that tells them he will flourish if given the chance and resources. That's me trying to look at it positively anyway. It's in their interests for the club to be successful.

 

I admire your positivity.

 

However, why not start with a manager who offers the best chance of success? Martinez hasn't convinced me that he does offer that. Just because he might, doesn't mean he will. You could say that about any manager in that case - so then who is convincing FSG that Martinez is the one? Ayre? Once he (they?) are done convincing or advising the owners, they're going to have to then convince 40,000 people every time they step into Anfield before next season starts. Convince those watching at home, in pubs (granted, of that 40,000 a percentage are already satisfied) that Martinez is the best. The sceptics, not the converted. Just saying that Martinez is the best candidate, and that he will flourish because they have faith he will, isn't good enough grounds. What are these 'advisers' seeing that I'm not?

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

When you consider the likes of Chelsea and Villa are also sorting the manager situations out in the clubs.

 

Liverpool s is the only one getting all this media coverage.

 

The dragging out process of searching for a manager all played out for the press.

 

Anybody would think its so highly being covered media wise to draw attention to the club.

 

All we need now is a fox tv camera team covering all of this and make it into a documentary.

 

Would be a sure fire hit over in the good ole USA for the tv audiance I would suspect.

[Captain]

They're here to make a premium. Anyone who doesn't fall in line only gets in the way.

 

Do you think they will make a premium?

[WaltonRed]

I think they know what will come there way if they royally fuck it up

 

we got rid of G and H we could get rid of these

 

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and also Roberto it if he is indeed named boss which he is still to be!

[Newport]

How the fuck did they get to this conclusion or whatever they're at? Are we in that bad a position that this is the man we're after? Fuck me, I've tried to keep calm about this, but that photo is so fucking depressing.

 

Then again, Dave will finally get the chance to see Franco Di Santo on a more regular basis.

[Coro]

Do you think they will make a premium?

 

I'm no expert in business but looking at how other owners have fared then i very much doubt they will.

[FanchesterCity]

I admire your positivity.

 

However, why not start with a manager who offers the best chance of success? Martinez hasn't convinced me that he does offer that. Just because he might, doesn't mean he will. You could say that about any manager in that case - so then who is convincing FSG that Martinez is the one? Ayre? Once he (they?) are done convincing or advising the owners, they're going to have to then convince 40,000 people every time they step into Anfield before next season starts. Convince those watching at home, in pubs (granted, of that 40,000 a percentage are already satisfied) that Martinez is the best. The sceptics, not the converted. Just saying that Martinez is the best candidate, and that he will flourish because they have faith he will, isn't good enough grounds. What are these 'advisers' seeing that I'm not?

 

They are seeing a list of elite managers not fancying the job

They are seeing a list of high quality managers expecting a high salary and a sizable transfer kitty along with a nice long term contract

They are seeing Liverpool's revenue fall significantly

 

 

Conversation with a top manager:

 

FSG: we'll cut to the chase - the goal is CL in two years, no ifs or buts

Manager: OK, I need 60 million for better players

FSG: We've just put in 50 million

Manager: Yes, on the wrong players, I need another 60 million

FSG: And your terms?

Manager: I want 5 million a year and a 3 year deal

FSG: that's another 15 million!... get that Robinho Martini lad on the line.

 

cost:75 million, manager who has his own opinions and no guarantee

 

 

 

FSG: Mr Martini - we hear good things

Martinez: Mr Whelan always likes to give an honest appraisal of his staff

FSG: Tell me, how much money will it cost to get in CL?

Martinez: It's not about money, it's about getting the most from players.

FSG: Tell me more...

Martinez: You've already spent 50 million on wonderful players that are under performing

FSG: That's what we think too! That Kenny is to blame.

Martinez: I believe I can tweak the team and spend no more than 15 million and get rid of some bad players too, saving you money! I spent no money at Wigan and was only 9 points behind Kenny

FSG: And your terms?

Martinez:2 million a year and I'll take a 2 year deal

 

Cost: 19 million, manager blowing smoke up your arse, and no guarantee

 

 

That's a saving of 56 million quid (which is roughly the amount they'd lose by not being in CL for 2 years)

 

And that's why Martinez is in the frame... it's a close run thing when presented in the above manner.

Edited May 25, 2012 by FanchesterCity

[Coro]

 

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt

 

The manager i agree with but why give the owners that? What have they done to earn such benefit?

[Captain]

I think they know what will come there way if they royally fuck it up

 

we got rid of G and H we could get rid of these

 

Erm, we got rid of G&H because they could not pay their dues.

 

FSG is not ridden with debt like G&H were.