James Bulger Killer Jon Venables back in Prison

[redrosetints]

The people who are spreading the rumors of his name probably got it from here...

 

I'm living in fear over 'child killer' rumours - Blackpool Today

 

ALMOST 5 YEARS OLD

 

Thats not the name I was given, some Blue forum seems to have it on there. I seem to remember that after Sarah paynes death a Paediatrician chased because the MOB didnt know the difference between a paediatrician and a paedophile. There are other examples of people being killed by mobs, simply on word of mouth accusations.

 

meant to post this earlier, the events in Norway 16 years ago

 

Somethind died with Silje: Does the killing of five-year-old Silje Marie Redergaard by her own playmates mark the end of Norway's innocence? Imre Karacs reports from Trondheim - Life & Style - The Independent

[Whelan]

Now I know it's not as simple as this, but maybe the best way to atone for your actions (if truly repentant) is not to end up in shit again with the authorities?

 

I'm going to come in for a lot of flack for this, but genuinely, if Venables and Thompson never saw the light of day again, how much worse off is the world for this? Genuinely? I'm more than happy to see the alternate side here.

 

The problem is that we don't know what he has done, so far it has ranged from druges, violence, to child pornography (which sometimes acts as a 9/11 argument). If you ask whether the world would be a better place without them, well it certainly wouldn't miss them!

 

But understanding that something is wrong and understanding why it is wrong is the difficulty that parenting is supposed to help.

 

Without sounding like I am making excuses, if there was one of these children who was the dominant one, the one who led, then does it not seem logical to think that maybe the other one feels that, for want of a better word, he is also a victim! He is probably thinking, I can't go back, can't visit my family, can't live a normal life because he led me astray. I am not for one minute saying he is a victim, I am just suggesting that if he feels he had been led on to murder, then he may feel more frustration than Thompson.

 

One of the more lurid rumours to have come out of this murder, were the numerous anecdotes from various drunks/blokes who had Thomspon's mum, and lets just say she wasn't exactly concerned about the fact that she had children in the house!

[Fowlers God]

Instead of posting Knee Jerk reactions as SD would call them I have taken the whole day to digest this thread and read and re read everybody's post since the fresh allegations over the weekend.

 

Here are my thoughts on a few of the discussions. I will also try and answer the below without my own emotions taking control.

 

Should we/Mrs Bulger/Anybody? Know exactly what he has been locked back up for?

If it was because he had broken a bail condition of his early release then because he was given a new identity to protect him (whether I agree about this or not) I don't think we should know as his crime relates to the first crime in which the government/law states he has already serving his time for.

 

Now if it is for any other crime outside of his breaking bail conditions serious enough for prison then I believe that we should know. Especially if it is for child pornography offences. Sarah's law and the like needs to be introduced on a national basis ASAP.

 

When I was younger I was in a hell of a lot of trouble with the law. Every time I broke the law and ended up in court and my name would be in the local paper. Everyone knew what I had done and the punishment that was dealt to me. Why should this be different for somebody else?

 

I knew right from wrong when I was younger. From a very early age I was bought up in a family where I was not aloud to get away with anything. I was physically disciplined almost to a degree of abuse and when I grew older I rebelled because I could. I still knew that my actions where wrong but I chose to do them anyway. When I grew up and notice that there was a difference between me saying when I grew older, It was then that I became remorseful for my actions.

 

Let me tell you something- I always knew what I was doing was wrong!

 

Was Hitler always a wrong un? Was Venebales always a wrong un? Yes and Know.

Is everybody born the same? No

There are many factors that go into making somebody that they are in life.

 

The conditions that they are born into, financial factors, are both parents present? is there alcohol or drug abuse present? physical violence, emotional abuse, the area that they are bought up in.

 

Over the course of my life I have had addictions to drugs, gambling, cigarettes. Does this mean I was born with an addictive personality? (the point I am making here is that they were not born with murderous tendancys, they chose to have them) To make me addictive to stuff??? I am not addictive to chocolate croissants am I?. I had choices to make and made wrong ones. These choices have made me the person I am today and have resulted from a few of the factors that I listed above.

 

Where they wrong un's from birth. No but the choices that they made, made them wrong.

 

I didn't read what Anny posted as I believe it would be too traumatic for me.

 

I just think that its terrible that Mrs Bulgers pain has been bought back up to the surface when she must have thought she had closure on this very sensitive issue years ago.

 

I would like to know also if it is proven that he has been arrested over child pornography offences whether the people who deemed him fit to be let back into society will be held accountable or not? Also for the liberals Stu and SD if he has been arrested for this issue what's next for him? Where do we go? How many chances shall we give him? after his rehabilitation would you let him teach your kids tennis?

[Boomshakalaka]

A lack of leptin causes obesity in some but not many because most people are not leptin-deficient. A more realistic neurohormonal target might be ghrelin rather than leptin but, even then, feeding is regulated by so many chemical signals, that I'm sceptical that by targetting one, they will find a solution; NPY, 5-HT, CCK, Grh, AEA, 2-AG are some of the neurotransmitters implicated in feeding, off the top of my head, it's doubtful that antagonising one or agonising another would be sufficient to cure obesity.

 

My supervisor is one of the world's top obesity psychologists. He knows that whenever researchers try to promote social change, such as preventing food companies from targetting adverts at children, lobbyists campaign on behalf of food companies to prevent such interventions being implemented.

 

First thanks for correcting my error. That was first year stuff from a degree I completed three years ago. Now I remember.

 

As for the lobbyists we are back to that buck. Businesses can be so disgusting. They all want a larger share of our wages and if not they just want to ensure they do not lose any of that share. They can be real slags.

 

Agreed gone way off course. I believe we share the same perspective which is good. I just wish the world could e more humane and Jon being more humane would be a great starting point.

 

So do you think Genes map out a destructive path for people if they end up on that avenue. Jon has went from Physical abuse as a child to sexual "to a certain degree" abuse as an adult? I would hypothesis definitely. Just in no position to prove anything. Case studies would do the trick and then studying the genetic make up (biological study). Does a certain type developmental angst lead to a certain destructive path? Do our genes decide this path? Or is it a combination of the two?

 

Guessing whatever the findings they would be scary.

 

One thing for sure is that any individual should be treated with respect, good grace, and honesty. No matter the age, weight, race or whatever.

[Randy Marsh]

Kelvin McKenzie apparently on BBC News giving his opinion. The one man who actually deserves what them two evil bastards did to James Bulger.

[Section_31]

In the case of Hitler, this is very true. I think it's well known that he was a failed artist, but he was also a talented architect. The only reason he wasn't accepted into an architectural college in Vienna was that he didn't stay at school to finish the equivalent of a High School Diploma. If he had done so, then it's possible that the entire course of world history would have turned out very differently. August Kubizek's book gives fascinating insights into Hitler's character, and a tantalising glimpse into what might have been.

 

The Young Hitler I Knew: Amazon.co.uk: August Kubizek, Ian Kershaw: Books

 

Having said all that, it has to he said that even as a teenager, Hitler comes across as a complete prick. Arrogant, opinionated and overbearing, but nothing to indicate that the path his life would take in later life was unavoidable given a different set of circumstances.

 

 

Hitler already had psychotic traits which would have made him difficult in the extreme socially. The Pentagon did a complete work-up of him in the early 40s which proved startlingly accurate and managed to predict how he'd react to certain events, such as Germany going on the back-foot (that he would try to shift the blame on to others and become increasingly foolhardy)

 

You can't compare him to people like this little shitbag though, because rather than just go around stoving people's heads in, Hitler also had great qualities which - if channeled correctly - could have brought him success in a more benign undertaking tham mass murder. He was a superlative organiser and a great speaker. In fact one psychological study I've read described him as 'a genius in a body - nothing more'

 

It's food for thought that a fairly large number of top directors and executives are thought to have psychotic and even psychopathic traits. Maybe if they'd been raised different they'd be serial killers.

[Guest Red Rag]

Hitler already had psychotic traits which would have made him difficult in the extreme socially. The Pentagon did a complete work-up of him in the early 40s which proved startlingly accurate and managed to predict how he'd react to certain events, such as Germany going on the back-foot (that he would try to shift the blame on to others and become increasingly foolhardy)

 

You can't compare him to people like this little shitbag though, because rather than just go around stoving people's heads in, Hitler also had great qualities which - if channeled correctly - could have brought him success in a more benign undertaking tham mass murder. He was a superlative organiser and a great speaker. In fact one psychological study I've read described him as 'a genius in a body - nothing more'

 

It's food for thought that a fairly large number of top directors and executives are thought to have psychotic and even psychopathic traits. Maybe if they'd been raised different they'd be serial killers.

I wasn't comparing Hitler to Venables in any way, except perhaps to pick up the point that people's destiny isn't pre-ordained, but is dependent on any number of factors. I think it's undeniable that the abuse Venables suffered played a part in forming his personality, but it's also true that many, many people suffer far worse without resorting to anything like that kind of behaviour. In other words, I think you have to look at a combination of nature, nurture and circumstances. Or if you like, call it ifs ands and buts. If it were purely circumstances that determined a person's character, then those children who survived, or were even born in Auschwitz, Belsen etc would be the most evil bastards ever seen on the face of the planet. But of course this simply isn't true.

 

Taking up your last point, the thin line, the connection between madness and genius has been well documented. Perhaps the same could be said of good and evil. I believe that many, if not all of us have the potential for great good or for great evil, given the right or wrong combination of circumstances. I don't believe in "irresistible urges". If you feel urges that you know to be wrong, then you need self-control to deal with those urges, and this same principle applies to anything from kids nicking sweets up to the most heinous of crimes. Of course nicking sweets is just a phase for most kids, and doesn't in any way lead to serial killer/monstrous behaviour any more than it leads to armed robbery. I suppose the point here is that the more serious the offence, the greater should be the sense of wrong attached, and so under normal circumstances, most normal, reasonably well-adjusted people would need less self-discipline to deal with it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way excusing Venables - not for a minute. Children can be cruel, undeniably. However, the sheer level of cruelty involved displays something far beyond any kind of normality. There is no reason, no argument that can fully explain it away without at least accepting the possibility that Venables is, was and always will be an innately evil little scroat.

[Captain]

meant to post this earlier, the events in Norway 16 years ago

 

Somethind died with Silje: Does the killing of five-year-old Silje Marie Redergaard by her own playmates mark the end of Norway's innocence? Imre Karacs reports from Trondheim - Life & Style - The Independent

 

I must admit I fail to see the relevance here. The boys who did this were only five and six years old, the same age as Silje herself. The autopsy revealed Silje froze to death, having been knocked out by the one or both of the boys and left behind.

 

It really is pretty fucking far from what happened to James Bulger.

[redrosetints]

I must admit I fail to see the relevance here. The boys who did this were only five and six years old, the same age as Silje herself. The autopsy revealed Silje froze to death, having been knocked out by the one or both of the boys and left behind.

 

It really is pretty fucking far from what happened to James Bulger.

 

Obviously Im not explaining my point very well, just the usual then !

 

I was trying to look at the reactions of the two societies and ask if those reactions in themselves show why one society has more violence one less. While there were differences in the deaths, two kids were still killed by other kids and Im suggesting that had the Bulger case happened in Norway, they would have reacted along the lines they did to the Silje case, with care, compassion and understanding. Alternativley, i wonder if the Silje case occurred in the UK we'd have seen 3 6 yr old in adults and then hounded for the rest of their lives.

[Carradona]

Torture the fuckers. Then leave them in a room with no food or water and let them starve to death. Same thing should be done to those gobshites who drenched that dog in petrol and set it alight. If anyone can do this type of thing to an animal/human, then fuck them and end their life before they do the same to some innocent person.

[Captain]

I was trying to look at the reactions of the two societies and ask if those reactions in themselves show why one society has more violence one less.

 

Who knows?

 

I feel you are comparing incomparable situations.

[Jokerman]

Kelvin McKenzie apparently on BBC News giving his opinion. The one man who actually deserves what them two evil bastards did to James Bulger.

 

Why? Just why? What is the BBCs obsession with this man.

[Yerma'satexan!]

Anyone see Pete Price the nobhead on C4 news? Embarrassing.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Anyone see Pete Price the nobhead on C4 news? Embarrassing.

 

*shudders*.

[Carradona]

Tastes like chicken.

[WaltonRed]

You've got to love a good old British media witch hunt.

 

Its like Brass Eye in reality

[cochcaer]

The fact you'd disguise what you'd done or that you'd deny involvement - that you'd blame someone else must surely point to the fact that you knew what you were doing was wrong?

 

I'd agree, I'm sure they were also charged with the attempted abduction of a second child. I seem to recall the plan was to have a child knocked over on the road. As both apparently got shirty at suggestions of sexual violence, I'd say they knew what they were doing was wrong and the connotations. One also apparently asked in detail about fingerprints - so like many inside, they perhaps naively thought they'd get away with it.

[The-Sir]

You've got to love a good old British media witch hunt.

 

Its like Brass Eye in reality

 

 

Charlie Brooker would have had a field day if the series hadn't ended last week..

[WaltonRed]

Its not true Al.

 

A report in a Blackpool paper from a few years ago has an interview with the lad people are saying is him

[WaltonRed]

Sound, I'll let the Mrs know.

 

I'll PM you the article

[derykw]

Lock the murdering little cunt up and throw the key away.

 

Fuck his human rights, what about the rights of the general public.

 

If his identity is known and he`s a attacked because of it, well tough. any perpetrator will feel the full weight of the law anyway. I`m more concerned with an unsuspecting other falling foul of him in some way or other through ignorance of his identity.

 

Imagine some poor girl marrying him and maybe having kids to him without knowing his true identity and then finding out after the fact. What impact would that have on her and her kids and wider family. It could destroy them, all to protect that fucker.

[Fowlers God]

Lock the murdering little cunt up and throw the key away.

 

Fuck his human rights, what about the rights of the general public.

If his identity is known and he`s a attacked because of it, well tough. any perpetrator will feel the full weight of the law anyway. I`m more concerned with an unsuspecting other falling foul of him in some way or other through ignorance of his identity.

 

Imagine some poor girl marrying him and maybe having kids to him without knowing his true identity and then finding out after the fact. What impact would that have on her and her kids and wider family. It could destroy them, all to protect that fucker.

 

I feel very strongly about this. Everybody knows the law of the land and the moral code that people live to. As soon as this is crossed and you take away somebody's human roght to live, without being murdered let alone tortured I believe you give up your own human rights. Fuck em.

[Strontium]

Mmm, you seem awfully keen to take other people's human rights away.

 

Criminals do that, although at least they have the excuse that they're criminals. What's yours?

[Wor Horse]

Latest rumour is he raped a 19 year old girl in Warrington.

[Fowlers God]

Mmm, you seem awfully keen to take other people's human rights away.

 

Criminals do that, although at least they have the excuse that they're criminals. What's yours?

 

Mine is that they do not deserve any rights. When you do not conform to the law of the land or even the moral grounds of a nation then what right do they have. Everyone has the right to a fair trial- That is it. once found guilty why should you have the right to vote fopr instance? Why should a muslim have the right to not eat pork when he has killed the lives of innocent people.

 

I have human rights because I try my hardest not to break any laws of the land- I do not hurt other people in either emotionally or physical ways and I pay my taxes.