New rafa deal agreed

[Royal Family]

So all the Keane/Spurs stuff is Robbie Keane's fault, and has nothing to do with Rafa and his treatment of him? Behave yourself. If Keane's agent has done that, maybe you should be asking why he felt the need to do it rather than make out Rafa is a poor innocent victim in all this. Keane feels that he's not been wanted from the first moment he walked through the door. His crime? Not being Gareth Barry.

 

Spurs have been asking Keane for months if he'd be up for coming back. He kept telling them 'no', but is now starting to waiver because he knows Rafa wants him out. He said all the right things last week after PSV, and what happened to him? A message was sent out to him loud and clear on saturday, that's what happened.

 

When we agreed a fee with Spurs, Rafa asked Parry to put the deal on hold for two weeks, sign Barry, and then raise funds to go back in for Keane. Parry said no, because we'd just sold Crouch, Alonso was still here, and he felt it was too risky as we could end up with no striker because Spurs and Keane would no doubt be pissed off if we tried to mess them about.

 

So Parry told Rafa the Keane deal would go through first, and to worry about Barry later. Rafa had a strop, which got worse when he didn't get Barry, and Keane has been feeling like a leper ever since he got here. So if his agent has sounded out Spurs about whether they'd take him back, it's because that's his job, to look after his client and make sure there's a fall back option if things got worse with Rafa.

 

ps - even if you think Rafa has mistreated Keane, and even if you think he mistreated Xabi in the summer (which i have much more sympathy for), do you think - in your opinion - that this justifies some of the well-known posters on here calling Rafa 'a fat Spanish c+nt'?

[Antynwa]

 

Fact is, Rafa put Robbie Keane straight into the team and showed every confidence in him. Keane repaid him by missing sitter after sitter from pre-season onwards: he simply doesn't deserve or merit a place in the team. And think about Keane's performance at Spurs when he actually was refusing to shoot at goal - if you were the manager, might that not make you question his commitment and professionalism?

 

 

Fact is Benitez was willing to spend 20 Million for Robbie Keane, and that he did. The buck stops with him, and as I mentioned, 2 weeks ago Rafa came out and said Keane is low on confidence, so what does he do? He keeps him on the bench despite an excellent game v PSV.

 

And puts Lucas, and Babel on ahead of him in a game we need to win.

 

I don't get the logic, you can't say he's low on confidence and don't play him when he plays well, thats just counter productive. You can't have it both ways.

 

Also remember when Keane scored for the first time? What does he do the next week? He drops him? Why? What is the point when a player is low on confidence, who scores his first goal for the club only to drop him the next week? It's bizarre, and it's a stubborn and wrong attitude Benitez has. He did it with Crouch last year.

 

FWIW I don't think Keane would have made much of a difference, but who knows, he was the logical player to put on because Kuyt was having a mare. Even then, he could have changed the formation to 4-4-2 and lobbed Yossi off for Keane, at least the result would have been easier to swallow.

 

As I said, Keane has been a proven quality player for years, Benitez must take some of the blame for what Keane is playing like now. The buck stops with him.

[dave u]

Sorry Dave, but we're going to disagree on this. What are you saying - that Rafa didn't want Keane and he was purely a Parry signing? If so, rafa should have walked as no manager should tolerate that. But it seems to me that you're not saying that Rafa didn't want Keane, but rather that he wanted Barry first, and felt undermined by Chief Scout Rick Parry's priorities and decisions.

 

Fact is, Rafa put Robbie Keane straight into the team and showed every confidence in him. Keane repaid him by missing sitter after sitter from pre-season onwards: he simply doesn't deserve or merit a place in the team. And think about Keane's performance at Spurs when he actually was refusing to shoot at goal - if you were the manager, might that not make you question his commitment and professionalism? The more I think about that day, the more I'm convinced that Keane (whether consciously or not) didn't want to do anything to harm Spurs. And if Rafa now knows that Tony Stephens approached redknapp (which he did) before that match, why on earth SHOULD he pick a player who doesn't want to be here, despite his public protestations.

 

Remember too that Stephens and our manager have a history, dating back to the Michael Owen situation as soon as Rafa arrived (because Stephens lied point-blank to Rafa's face within a week of his arrival in the country). I'm not at all surprised that Stephens is trying to undermine him now.

 

I never said he was a Parry signing and Rafa didn't want him. I said Rafa wanted to do Barry first as he was his obsession over the summer and he wanted him over anyone else. Parry said we had to do Keane - who Rafa had asked him to do a deal for - first because we were light on strikers and well stocked in midfield.

 

As for the stuff about Keane feeling like a leper, it's not just about him being left out or subbed, it's about the way he's felt - rightly or wrongly - since he walked through the door, due to the way Rafa has treated him.

 

You really think Robbie Keane doesn't want to be here? If that's the case, why do you think he doesn't want to be here?

[05 Milan]

So all the Keane/Spurs stuff is Robbie Keane's fault, and has nothing to do with Rafa and his treatment of him? Behave yourself. If Keane's agent has done that, maybe you should be asking why he felt the need to do it rather than make out Rafa is a poor innocent victim in all this. Keane feels that he's not been wanted from the first moment he walked through the door. His crime? Not being Gareth Barry.

 

Spurs have been asking Keane for months if he'd be up for coming back. He kept telling them 'no', but is now starting to waiver because he knows Rafa wants him out. He said all the right things last week after PSV, and what happened to him? A message was sent out to him loud and clear on saturday, that's what happened.

 

When we agreed a fee with Spurs, Rafa asked Parry to put the deal on hold for two weeks, sign Barry, and then raise funds to go back in for Keane. Parry said no, because we'd just sold Crouch, Alonso was still here, and he felt it was too risky as we could end up with no striker because Spurs and Keane would no doubt be pissed off if we tried to mess them about.

 

So Parry told Rafa the Keane deal would go through first, and to worry about Barry later. Rafa had a strop, which got worse when he didn't get Barry, and Keane has been feeling like a leper ever since he got here. So if his agent has sounded out Spurs about whether they'd take him back, it's because that's his job, to look after his client and make sure there's a fall back option if things got worse with Rafa.

 

That's a disgrace. I'm not sure who to be most angry with over that, Rafa or Parry. Both, I guess. If they really care for this club they'll sort this shit out for good, and fast.

[JMARKH]

Standard mis-direction. Could he have chosen Kuyt over Keane for football reasons? Indeed, given their recent goals record, isn't it likely?

 

Kuyt scored one goal from open play last season in the league and never got the disgraceful treatment that keane is getting, so no not football reasons. It proves he'll stick with some but freeze out others. No one can tell me kuyt is a better players than crouch yet he played more than him last year. It just goes to show how Rafa can work.

[Royal Family]

Fact is Benitez was willing to spend 20 Million for Robbie Keane, and that he did. The buck stops with him, and as I mentioned, 2 weeks ago Rafa came out and said Keane is low on confidence, so what does he do? He keeps him on the bench despite an excellent game v PSV.

 

And puts Lucas, and Babel on ahead of him in a game we need to win.

 

I don't get the logic, you can't say he's low on confidence and don't play him when he plays well, thats just counter productive. You can't have it both ways.

 

Also remember when Keane scored for the first time? What does he do the next week? He drops him? Why? What is the point when a player is low on confidence, who scores his first goal for the club only to drop him the next week? It's bizarre, and it's a stubborn and wrong attitude Benitez has. He did it with Crouch last year.

 

FWIW I don't think Keane would have made much of a difference, but who knows, he was the logical player to put on because Kuyt was having a mare. Even then, he could have changed the formation to 4-4-2 and lobbed Yossi off for Keane, at least the result would have been easier to swallow.

 

As I said, Keane has been a proven quality player for years, Benitez must take some of the blame for what Keane is playing like now. The buck stops with him.

 

Yes, I think these are fair and well-reasoned points. Personally, i wouldn't have signed him, but as Rafa did, he ought to be using him less whimsically. I can only imagine it's because he's learnt about Tony Stephens's behaviour. As I said, I'm not a slavish follower of Rafa, and I don't even believe he should be rewarded with a new contract at this moment in time, but some of the stuff posted on here is embarrassing and makes me wonder what on earth is going on with our fans!

[Antynwa]

That's a disgrace. I'm not sure who to be most angry with over that, Rafa or Parry. Both, I guess. If they really care for this club they'll sort this shit out for good, and fast.

 

Aye, very true.

 

Rafa's stubborness may just be the downfall or the 'catalyst' of our success this season.

[dave u]

ps - even if you think Rafa has mistreated Keane, and even if you think he mistreated Xabi in the summer (which i have much more sympathy for), do you think - in your opinion - that this justifies some of the well-known posters on here calling Rafa 'a fat Spanish c+nt'?

 

No I don't, not at all, it's disgraceful and he deserves more respect than that.

 

But some of the people defending his every weird move are almost as embarrassing as the ones insulting him.

[05 Milan]

I never said he was a Parry signing and Rafa didn't want him. I said Rafa wanted to do Barry first as he was his obsession over the summer and he wanted him over anyone else. Parry said we had to do Keane - who Rafa had asked him to do a deal for - first because we were light on strikers and well stocked in midfield.

 

As for the stuff about Keane feeling like a leper, it's not just about him being left out or subbed, it's about the way he's felt - rightly or wrongly - since he walked through the door, due to the way Rafa has treated him.

 

You really think Robbie Keane doesn't want to be here? If that's the case, why do you think he doesn't want to be here?

 

That's the thing, he's really working his bollocks off every time he gets on the field, and the so-called petulant behavior from him lately is a result of immense frustration. He wants to succeed so badly, and he undoubtedly has the tools to make it here. But he needs a proper chance, and he deserves the same belief that Rafa had in Crouch.

[Antynwa]

Yes, I think these are fair and well-reasoned points. Personally, i wouldn't have signed him, but as Rafa did, he ought to be using him less whimsically. I can only imagine it's because he's learnt about Tony Stephens's behaviour. As I said, I'm not a slavish follower of Rafa, and I don't even believe he should be rewarded with a new contract at this moment in time, but some of the stuff posted on here is embarrassing and makes me wonder what on earth is going on with our fans!

 

I wanted to sign him, I was buzzing when he signed, really chuffed to bits, I rate him big time.

 

But it's quite clearly now, the wrong decision, and the buck stops with Rafa. I myself said the same thing, we should wait till the end of the season to see what happend with a contract.

 

I have to admit though, for the first time in 3 years, I have never felt so sure that Benitez's decision making has cost us something big. If I didn't have faith in him and what team he has got to win the league, I wouldn't have said expectations.

 

I hope I'm wrong mind.

[JMARKH]

I've a good mind to write a letter to Rafa, I've never done anyting like that before but I just feel so pissed off with some of the things he does that I want to tell him straight. I wonder if you wrote a letter to the club if he'd get it or maybe it would just get thrown straight in the bin.

[SpeedyG]

No I don't, not at all, it's disgraceful and he deserves more respect than that.

 

But some of the people defending his every weird move are almost as embarrassing as the ones insulting him.

 

Play fair, no-one has come even close to being as out of order as atk has been in this thread.

[05 Milan]

I've a good mind to write a letter to Rafa, I've never done anyting like that before but I just feel so pissed off with some of the things he does that I want to tell him straight. I wonder if you wrote a letter to the club if he'd get it or maybe it would just get thrown straight in the bin.

 

Go ahead lad, just don't mention Mourinho more than a couple of times!

[Antynwa]

That's the thing, he's really working his bollocks off every time he gets on the field, and the so-called petulant behavior from him lately is a result of immense frustration. He wants to succeed so badly, and he undoubtedly has the tools to make it here. But he needs a proper chance, and he deserves the same belief that Rafa had in Crouch.

 

I just thought it was petulant beheaviour...Now I'm not so sure, he's got every right to be kicking off after whats happend the past few weeks.

 

It's Crouch Mk 2

[Royal Family]

 

As for the stuff about Keane feeling like a leper, it's not just about him being left out or subbed, it's about the way he's felt - rightly or wrongly - since he walked through the door, due to the way Rafa has treated him.

 

You really think Robbie Keane doesn't want to be here? If that's the case, why do you think he doesn't want to be here?

 

That's interesting. I wonder if that simply comes down to Rafa's man-management? Some players can cope with it; others can't. What I would say is that throughout his career Robbie Keane has always demanded the star treatment - he did this even at Inter as a teenager and started complaining as soon as he got there that other players were the coach's favourites. I remember at Spurs he used to mouth off when Defoe was picked before him and he was left on the bench. I'm just speculating but my feeling is that he HAS to feel comfortable and feel like the big star to be able to perform. He doesn't feel that right now at Liverpool - he's the classic big fish small pond player - and thus he wants out.

 

You would have thought, to be honest, that he'd have known about Rafa's management style before joining. I think he knows he's made a mistake and wants to go back to his comfort zone where he feels loved and wanted. In return, I think he'll produce the goods there in a way that he just isn't here. That's my reading of it, but it's merely informed speculation.

[SpeedyG]

Kuyt scored one goal from open play last season in the league and never got the disgraceful treatment that keane is getting, so no not football reasons. It proves he'll stick with some but freeze out others. No one can tell me kuyt is a better players than crouch yet he played more than him last year. It just goes to show how Rafa can work.

 

No-one is denying he'll "freeze players out", the point is his motivation. You seem to think he does it to get at players. I just think he genuinely believes that the team he puts out is his best option.

[Antynwa]

That's interesting. I wonder if that simply comes down to Rafa's man-management? Some players can cope with it; others can't. What I would say is that throughout his career Robbie Keane has always demanded the star treatment - he did this even at Inter as a teenager and started complaining as soon as he got there that other players were the coach's favourites. I remember at Spurs he used to mouth off when Defoe was picked before him and he was left on the bench. I'm just speculating but my feeling is that he HAS to feel comfortable and feel like the big star to be able to perform. He doesn't feel; that at Liverpool - he's the classic big fish small pond player - and thus he wants out.

 

You would have thgought, to be honest, that he'd have known about Rafa's management style before joining. I think he knows he's made a mistake and weants to go back to his comfort zone where he feels loved and wanted. That's my reading of it, but it's merely informed speculation.

 

You could say, that Rafa's man management style is his own, I'd say it's shit.We changed one of the best dutch strikers into a midfield workhorse We made Crouch the player he was, and screwed him over. We played Cisse on the wings In many respects Steven Gerrard Xabi Alonso and Gareth Barry

 

Oh and Robbie Keane.

[Sinos]

I still don't understand why Keane was purchased because he was never going to be a better partner for Torres than Gerrard.

 

All of this summer's purchases have achieved is to mess with a very successful formation and slow down the progress of our most promising youngsters in Nemeth and Insua

[redrosetints]

Repeating the same point over and over again is very dull.

 

Sorry mate, if thats aimed at me, i just can't let some of this shite go. I'll try and rein it in.

[GJM]

 

As for the Keane debate, I think Rafa is being stubborn because of the petulant behaviour Keane has shown when he is taken off. He has been an unused sub in the last 2 league games and has had El Zhar put on before him in both of those games. And Lucas.

 

I really don't think that's why El Zhar got on and Keane didn't. Benitez rarely plays the wide attacking players for the full 90. El Zhar's role was to come on when it was deemed Benayoun had done his bit, Babel was there to do the same covering job for Riera.

 

The only players Keane had a chance of replacing was Kuyt and Gerrard. Benitez rarely replaces either (in fact, I think that Kuyt is the only player thought by Benitez to have sufficient stamina to last the 90 in the wide role).

 

I think he should have replaced Kuyt but, from what we've seen of Keane thus far, he's not much looked like a player who was going to decide a match in our favour, at least not when asked to lead the line. Personally, I think it was worth the risk as Kuyt was having a very poor game.

[SpeedyG]

You could say, that Rafa's man management style is his own, I'd say it's shit.We changed one of the best dutch strikers into a midfield workhorse We made Crouch the player he was, and screwed him over. We played Cisse on the wings In many respects Steven Gerrard Xabi Alonso and Gareth Barry

 

Oh and Robbie Keane.

 

You could say it's the same as Capello's.

[hamstrung]

 

The only players Keane had a chance of replacing was Kuyt and Gerrard. Benitez rarely replaces either (in fact, I think that Kuyt is the only player thought by Benitez to have sufficient stamina to last the 90 in the wide role).

.

 

He could quite easily (and probably should have) replaced Masch/Alonso with Gerrard moving back. Or he could even have moved Gerrard to the right and replaced Keane with Benayoun.

 

The latter might not have been a bad move, we were getting a fair bit of joy on the right near then end but the quality was lacking.

[Antynwa]

You could say it's the same as Capello's.

 

I don't think Capello is a as ruth less or as 'robotic' as Benitez

[redrosetints]

Or we could have kept Houllier on and on then going by what you say, in fact maybe we have.

 

Why ? Houllier clearly took us backward in the last two seasons, embarrassed in the UEFA cup and only just getting 4th ahead of Newcastle, with a points total closer to the bottom side than the top IIRC. He'd run out of ideas and didnt know how to motivate the team.

 

Under Rafa we've just had our best CL group ever and our best start to a season in 19 years, would you not agree they are slightly different.

[redrosetints]

The three managers you have mentioned are/were all overpaid. Especialy Moyes.

 

As for the Keane debate, I think Rafa is being stubborn because of the petulant behaviour Keane has shown when he is taken off. He has been an unused sub in the last 2 league games and has had El Zhar put on before him in both of those games. And Lucas.

 

All valid points and a good post. But I think my point is being sidetracked here. I just don't think he deserves a new contract until we see how we finish in the league in May.

 

Is there a reason you have twice called me "young Cain"?

 

 

I'm not trying to beat Rafa with anything. I don't have very much against him. I'm going to sound like a broken record now, but I'll say it just one last time.

 

The only point I'm trying to make is that I don't think he should be given a contract until May.

 

Just he normal way I groom, young cain !