Our strongest eleven?

[Brownie]

I think that's the whole issue though. I think a lot of people would say "That's definitely my strongest eleven...unless we're playing them...or there." It's good to have options and it's good to have a manager who is prepared to use them. Admittedly some of the options have played better and some of them could just be better. I put Alonso in my team yet on current form (his and others) I probably wouldn't. So then what? Play him anyway?

 

I wouldn't change it based on opposition, bar the Alonso/Mascherano alteration. The rest of the time i'd play the same players.

 

I'd rotate for the Carling Cup and also give players a rest when games are comfortably won etc.

[Jorge Borge]

I wouldn't change it based on opposition, bar the Alonso/Mascherano alteration. The rest of the time i'd play the same players.

 

I'd rotate for the Carling Cup and also give players a rest when games are comfortably won etc.

 

There's so much we don't see though. What if someone has been a complete dick in training all week or stopped training as much as they were guaranteed a place? I don't think Rafa's methods are only to keep the opposition on their toes.

[Brownie]

There's so much we don't see though. What if someone has been a complete dick in training all week or stopped training as much as they were guaranteed a place? I don't think Rafa's methods are only to keep the opposition on their toes.

 

What if my auntie was my uncle?

 

That's just a totally speculative statement and a bit of an excuse used to explain things.

 

There's no evidence to suggest that, but there's evidence to suggest that Rafa views fitness levels as a major factor in his selection. He likes to pick his team based on whose fittest that week as opposed to picking the best players and outplaying the opposition.

 

He's said so himself many times. We aren't privvy to what goes on at Melwood, but we do watch the matches and that's all I can base my own opinion on.

[Jorge Borge]

There's no evidence to suggest that, but there's evidence to suggest that Rafa views fitness levels as a major factor in his selection. He likes to pick his team based on whose fittest that week as opposed to picking the best players and outplaying the opposition.

 

I think I may be about to contradict myself.

 

His ideas (so I've read) are that the players should have an almost Zen-like training (bear with me). Performing the same actions and procedures continuously will eventually make them part of the sub-conscious so that they'll be performed without thinking and automatically selected depending on the situation in front of the player. All his players should have this ability and so in that case the fittest ones are going to be the best choice.

 

I'm not saying this is right (and I'm also not saying that footballers minds work on this spiritual level) though I like the concept.

 

Naturally, however, (here comes the contradiction) this works on a team level also.

 

I honestly can't see the best way, the right or the wrong, because everytime I type something I think of a counter argument in my head for both sides.

[Brownie]

I think I may be about to contradict myself.

 

His ideas (so I've read) are that the players should have an almost Zen-like training (bear with me). Performing the same actions and procedures continuously will eventually make them part of the sub-conscious so that they'll be performed without thinking and automatically selected depending on the situation in front of the player. All his players should have this ability and so in that case the fittest ones are going to be the best choice.

 

I'm not saying this is right (and I'm also not saying that footballers minds work on this spiritual level) though I like the concept.

 

Naturally, however, (here comes the contradiction) this works on a team level also.

 

I honestly can't see the best way, the right or the wrong, because everytime I type something I think of a counter argument in my head for both sides.

 

And therein lies the problem. I can totally understand the theory behind what you're saying. Two players for each position of equal ability who are all coached to perform exactly the same role, so that the fittest player will perform better.

 

Football isn't such a precise science though IMO. It's an unpredictable beast which owes almost as much to confidence as it does to ability and fitness.

 

Everything is just wishy-washy and a bundle of confusion. You have fans disagreeing on the best eleven because they have seen so many different permutations. You have the manager disagreeing with the assistant ending in a parting of the ways. You have the manager disagreeing with the owners as well and vice-versa!

 

It's all a mess and is only punctured by the CL, thank fuck, as that's our only solice at the moment and long may it continue.

 

The sooner we get more clarity on the pitch and a set style/identity, the better. The best way to do that is to play a settled team with settled tactics that everyone understands, and to make changes based mainly on injuries and supensions.

[Unrighteous]

The sooner we get more clarity on the pitch and a set style/identity, the better. The best way to do that is to play a settled team with settled tactics that everyone understands, and to make changes based mainly on injuries and supensions.

 

I fully agree for the league.

 

Anyone who wants Rafa to do anything one iota different than he has for the Champions League is mad beyond words.

[Brownie]

I fully agree for the league.

 

Anyone who wants Rafa to do anything one iota different than he has for the Champions League is mad beyond words.

 

I agree, we don't need to change anything in the CL.

[wiiksie]

--------Reina--------

Finnan---Carra--Agger--Aurelio

Gerrard--Mascherano---Alonso--Babel

----Kuyt---Torres

 

There are a few positions that I'm not sure about. Ideally Gerrard would be in the middle but I'd like to accommodate him, Mascherano and Alonso. Babel is in by default and this is still a problem position in my opinion. There's not much in it between Arbeloa and Finnan at right back, Finnan had been very good for some time now so he gets the nod.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

 

I don't really see any difference between Crouch and Kuyt, but I just prefer Kuyt in the team. And I think Finnan is clear first choice for right back.

[Dirk]

What if my auntie was my uncle?

 

That's just a totally speculative statement and a bit of an excuse used to explain things.

 

There's no evidence to suggest that, but there's evidence to suggest that Rafa views fitness levels as a major factor in his selection. He likes to pick his team based on whose fittest that week as opposed to picking the best players and outplaying the opposition.

 

He's said so himself many times. We aren't privvy to what goes on at Melwood, but we do watch the matches and that's all I can base my own opinion on.

 

 

I reckon rotation is the cause of 6.897% of our problems. Speculation? When you asked why I laughed at one of your posts the other day, it was because of the hypocrisy. You said something like "You say it enough times, mate and it will become true" but you do the same. You accuse this lad of speculating yet you do it often yourself when "debating" Rafa's pitfalls. Unless you know all the variables in Rafa's decision making processes, anything discussed is speculation. It could easily be said what you are saying is speculative. Which manager doesn't value fitness as important part of selection?

[Hazel Motes]

-----------Reina---------------

-------------------------------

Finnan---Carra--Agger---Arbeloa

-------------------------------

-----Alonso---Mascherano------

----------Gerrard--------------

----Kuyt----------Babel--------

-----------Torres--------------

 

Subs: Carson, Hyypia, Lucas, Pennant, Crouch

[robslappa]

Reina

Finnan

Agger

Carragher

Arbeloa

Gerrard

Mascherano

Alonso

Babel

Benayoun

Torres

[Dirk]

Saying fitness is the primary factor behind Rafa's thought processes when it comes to rotation fails to explain why Reina, Carragher, Agger (when fit), Gerrard and Torres are rarely rotated. If it is the primary factor when it comes to rotation then why does he rarely rotate any of the players I've mentioned; is it any coincidence that the players rarely rotated are our best ones? There is evidence to suggest that ability plays a major part in Rafa's decision making processes when it comes to rotation, people just fail to see it or accept it.

[Ian Sea]

Mine would be;

 

Reina

 

Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa

 

Pennant Gerrard Mascherano Babel

 

Benayoun

 

Torres

 

Benayoun gets in by default because all of our other strikers have been so bad this season.

[GJM]

Assuming match fitness isn't an issue:

 

Reina

 

Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa

 

Mascherano Alonso

 

Gerrard

 

Kuyt Torres Babel

 

Having said that, I think Sami has been our best defender this season. Alonso is in on what we know he can do, rather than on the basis of the patchy, injury afflicted, season he has had this year. I think Crouch is best used from the bench, and, despite his poor form for most of the season, Kuyt's performance on Tuesday showed just what a pain in the ass his hard work can be to the opposition, providing he manages to combine it with a decent touch etc.

[RedinSweden]

..............Torres...Crouch..........

 

....Babel....Masch...Xabi......Gerrard..

 

...Arbeloa...Agger....Carra.....Finnan...

 

.....................Reina....................

 

 

IF you played that side, Gerrard in a free-role (his best season for us IMO) and kept them together for even five games straight we'd be a fucking seriously tasty outfit.

 

Torres and Crouch in goal, nice idea.

[shannow]

..............Torres...Crouch..........

 

....Babel....Masch...Xabi......Gerrard..

 

...Arbeloa...Agger....Carra.....Finnan...

 

.....................Reina....................

 

 

IF you played that side, Gerrard in a free-role (his best season for us IMO) and kept them together for even five games straight we'd be a fucking seriously tasty outfit.

 

 

Would have to agree with the above aswell

[Baresi]

Reina

Finnan... Carragher..... Agger.....Arbeloa

Gerrard....Mascherano....Alonso....Lucas.....Babel

......................Torres..............................

 

If he played that team at home to relegation fodder, there would be murder on here for playing one upfront.

[Dirk]

If he played that team at home to relegation fodder, there would be murder on here for playing one upfront.

 

There'll be murder on here whatever he does, there's a lot of post hoc rationalisation in relation to Benitez. It doesn't matter what he does, people find reasons to blame him. For instance, they will find a reason to criticise him, even if this reason is in direct contradiction to an earlier reason they've used to apportion blame to him. Take, for example, the rotation debate, some will criticise him for rotating and not playing his strongest eleven every match but then they will berate him for not giving youngsters a game. The two points appear to contradict one another. They will criticise him after the event despite the fact that they might have earlier insisted he take this line. It is the primary reason why I won't take most of them seriously when discussing the current problems. They are like metal detectors looking for gold, they are constantly sifting through the shite to try and find that one little nugget that tells them that their time was worthwhile.

 

How can it be a balanced discussion when a person is constantly looking for reasons to attribute blame to him? Is it possible to have a balanced discussion when people are making things up to suit their agenda? How can it be reasonable to expect people to take them seriously when they selectively present information whilst simultaneously rejecting information that portrays their opinion in a different light? Such as above, it was stated that Rafa rotates based primarily on fitness but there's overwhelming evidence to suggest that a player's inherent ability is a major factor in his decision making processes. We live in a blame culture, so I suppose it's just a symptom of a greater social malady.

[bobhorse]

I always see people moaning about playing your strongest side and no rotation and yet i see people have 2 teams one for the home games and one for the away games ?

[wiiksie]

I always see people moaning about playing your strongest side and no rotation and yet i see people have 2 teams one for the home games and one for the away games ?

And there's about 20 different lineups in this thread too.

 

I think the strongest lineup argument is as useful as the rotation argument: i.e. it isn't.

[KevieG]

--------Reina--------

Finnan---Carra--Agger--Aurelio

Gerrard--Mascherano---Alonso--Babel

----Kuyt---Torres

 

There are a few positions that I'm not sure about. Ideally Gerrard would be in the middle but I'd like to accommodate him, Mascherano and Alonso. Babel is in by default and this is still a problem position in my opinion. There's not much in it between Arbeloa and Finnan at right back, Finnan had been very good for some time now so he gets the nod.

 

Swap Kuyt for Crouch and that would be mine too. Plus I agree with your reasoning.

 

Can I add that I think my team given a run of games together would challenge for the title

[KevieG]

And there's about 20 different lineups in this thread too.

 

I think the strongest lineup argument is as useful as the rotation argument: i.e. it isn't.

 

Only one man picks the team though.

[Thants]

--------Reina--------

Finnan---Carra--Agger--Aurelio

Gerrard--Mascherano---Alonso--Babel

----Kuyt---Torres

 

There are a few positions that I'm not sure about. Ideally Gerrard would be in the middle but I'd like to accommodate him, Mascherano and Alonso. Babel is in by default and this is still a problem position in my opinion. There's not much in it between Arbeloa and Finnan at right back, Finnan had been very good for some time now so he gets the nod.

 

Affirmative TK421.

[Moo]

- - - - - - - - - - - Reina - - - - - - - - - - -

Finnan - - - - - Carra (just) - - - - Agger - - - - - Arbeloa

Gerrard - - - - - Mascherano - - - - Xabi - - - - - Babel (just)

- - - - - - - - - - Crouch - - - - Torres - - -

[Jay Glover]

I am torn between the following, i really like the idea of the formation we played against Inter this week. I think Crouch should be in the strongest team and i like 4-4-2 so i am posting 2 teams

 

--------------Reina--------------

-Finnan-Carragher-Agger-Arbeloa-

Gerrard-Mascherano-Alonso-Babel

----------Torres-Crouch---------

 

--------------Reina--------------

-Finnan-Carragher-Agger-Arbeloa-

-------Mascherano-Alonso-------

--Kuyt------Gerrard------Babel--

-------------Torres-------------