Mascherano question

[rondeco]

Is mascherano actually training with us or is he still in london until the premier league deicides? Sorry if this has been answered already.

[RED Tezza]

I don't know about that but he has been refused permission to play tomorrow they just mentioned it briefly on SSN with more to follow

[PaulMcC]

Premier League are acting like wankers.

[Dirk]

Mascherano is a Liverpool player, he just hasn't be given clearance to play. IRafa said he has been training. f they don't give him clearance to play, he is still a Liverpool player and will be able to start playing in July. Unless we mount a legal challenge and have the ruling overturned.

[RED Tezza]

Premier League are acting like wankers.

 

well it's not unlike them really is it

[Bob]

Premier League are acting like wankers.

 

its been said before, its just so it doesnt look like Fifa tell them what to do.

 

If there is anything dodgy that will prevent him signing, they should already know about it as its only 5 months since he signed for West Ham, useless cunts.

 

A point i would like answering though is this; If he is only coming on loan, and will not be owned by us anyway, why should his ownership be of any fucking importance anyhow?

[rondeco]

Sooo, he is with us training and all?

[RED Tezza]

i assume that he would be training with us as he isn't training at West Ham and he is in essence out player.

 

Did i just hear that right that the PL have said that although he has been given permission by FIFA it doesn't matter as it doesn't come under PL rules or something.

 

Sorry i was busy wiping some crud off my foot at the time

[Dirk]

Sooo, he is with us training and all?

 

Yes.

What qualities will Alvaro Arbeloa and Francisco Manuel Duran bring to your squad, and what's the latest on Javier Mascherano?

 

Francis is a young player for the reserve team. He's a midfielder with quality. Arbeloa is a right full-back or centre-back. I knew him from when he was in the reserve team with Real Madrid. He's a player with quality, he has a very good mentality and is very professional. He's the kind of player you want for your team for a long time. I think he can put a bit of pressure on Steve Finnan. The competition for this position will be good for the team. We are waiting for news on Mascherano. The club completed the registration in time. We've done our job and now the Premier League needs to decide. I don't know when this will happen but it's clear a player of his quality must play football.

 

 

Where does Mascherano fit into your plans?

 

I think after not playing for a while he will need time. He's training and he can be fit, but would need games. He is a player with quality and a good mentality. Now, he can talk English and he understands the Premiership.

 

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N154865070202-0856.htm

[rondeco]

Cheers kids..

[Franny DelMucho]

I am right in thinking that if Mascherano was not owned by West Ham and he is not owned by Liverpool, then is he in effect on loan for the rest of his career, no matter what club he plays for? How can someone other than a football club own a player? It's a bit of a piss take.

[isr]

Can he play in reserve games while waiting for the Premier League to put their dick back in their trousers ... sorry .... come to a decision.

?

[RED Tezza]

Can he play in reserve games while waiting for the Premier League to put their dick back in their trousers ... sorry .... come to a decision.

?

 

should be able to because the reserve league isn't run by the PL is it?

[Guest davelfc]

The Premier League have again delayed a decision on Javier Mascherano's loan move to Liverpool.

 

The Argentina midfielder's move from West Ham was completed ahead of Wednesday's transfer deadline, with all the documentation and his registration logged with the football authorities.

 

But the League's board wanted to study the terms of the move, Mascherano's contract and full ownership, before allowing him to commence his Anfield career.

 

And those investigations are still ongoing, despite FIFA having given Liverpool permission to sign the player, making them his third club in a 12-month spell, a situation normally not permitted under their rules.

 

A Premier League spokesman said: "The board have met over the last two days to discuss the move, and now there will be no further progress until after the weekend."

 

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/07/02/02/SOCCER_Liverpool_Mascherano.html&TEAMHD=soccer

[RoboRiise]

Bunch of shitheads:

 

Mascherano saga drags on

Fri 02 Feb, 6:30 PM

 

The Premier League have postponed a decision on whether to sanction Javier Mascherano's loan move from West Ham to Liverpool until next week. The Argentina midfielder's move from West Ham was completed ahead of Wednesday's transfer deadline, with all the documentation and his registration logged with the football authorities.

 

But the League's board wanted to study the terms of the move, Mascherano's contract and full ownership, before allowing him to commence his Anfield career.

 

And those investigations are still ongoing, despite FIFA having given Liverpool permission to sign the player, making them his third club in a 12-month spell, a situation normally not permitted under their rules.

 

A Premier League spokesman said: "The board have met over the last two days to discuss the move, and now there will be no further progress until after the weekend."

 

This is just about the Premier League making sure they're seen as having the final decision. The contract has been signed, both clubs are happy, the player is happy, FIFA are happy. What the fuck do the terms of his move have to do with the Premier League anyway - the transfer is legal and has been ratified by the cluibs and the governing body of the sport. What is the problem here exactly and more importantly, why is it taking so long to sort out?

 

Because they're deliberately dragging their feet so that everybody notices they're involved, that's why. What a bunch of fucking wastrels. I can see why Parry fitted in so well there, for fucking sure. They couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel.

 

This week has just been wall-to-wall shit for us.

[Guest davelfc]

Bunch of shitheads:

 

This week has just been wall-to-wall shit for us.

 

 

It's about to be one hell of a great finish to the week though :thumbup:

[Guest TK-421]

Bunch of shitheads:

 

 

 

This is just about the Premier League making sure they're seen as having the final decision. The contract has been signed, both clubs are happy, the player is happy, FIFA are happy. What the fuck do the terms of his move have to do with the Premier League anyway - the transfer is legal and has been ratified by the cluibs and the governing body of the sport. What is the problem here exactly and more importantly, why is it taking so long to sort out?

 

Because they're deliberately dragging their feet so that everybody notices they're involved, that's why. What a bunch of fucking wastrels. I can see why Parry fitted in so well there, for fucking sure. They couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel.

 

This week has just been wall-to-wall shit for us.

 

Haha, always make a good read your posts do, Robo.

 

It hasn't been all shit though, at least we got the player to sign for us and a Derby game is hardly ideal for a debut. Looking at the bigger picture this transfer window was a good one for us I think, things seemd to go pretty smoothly. We even managed to avoid an 11th hour cock up with Mascherano. I'm sure he'll be available to play against Newcastle in Xabi's absence.

[oj]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=433202&in_page_id=1779&ct=5

 

Mascherano deal under spotlight as clubs accuse Premier League of cover-up

 

EXCLUSIVE INVESTIGATION By MATT LAWTON

 

The Premier League were facing a revolt among their own members last night amid growing suspicion that West Ham and Portsmouth have fielded ineligible players this season.

 

Prompted by a private Premier League document obtained by Sportsmail, Wigan and a number of other top flight clubs are now questioning whether the appearances of Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez, for West Ham, and Manuel Fernandes, for Portsmouth, were in breach of Premier League rules.

 

Breaking Rule U18 can result in a points reduction because the League will not allow England's top-flight clubs to sign players who are owned by a "third party" who would have the "ability materially to influence its policies or the performance of its teams".

 

While Kia Joorabchian has a 50 per cent stake in Mascherano and Tevez, Fernandes is owned 50-50 by Benfica and a private company called the Global Sports Agency. There could be significant ramifications.

 

Clubs currently fighting alongside West Ham to avoid relegation are prepared to launch legal challenges if they believe they have been unfairly disadvantaged, while at the top end, it could damage Pompey's European chances.

 

Complications have arisen now Mascherano is trying to complete a move to Liverpool and Fernandes has gone on "loan" to Everton.

 

When Everton first attempted to secure the services of Fernandes, they informed the Premier League of their wish to sign the player on loan until the end of the season with a view to a permanent deal.

 

The Premier League refused to authorise the deal because of Everton's desire to make it permanent, which came as a surprise to the Merseyside club when it was their understanding that the deal between Fernandes and Portsmouth was similar.

 

There was a clause in the contract, Sportsmail understands, that stated that Portsmouth would have to sign Fernandes on a permanent deal if he made three successive first-team appearances.

 

Everton told the Premier League they would simply demand the points from their game with Portsmouth - a match in which Fernandes played.

 

The Premier League responded by asking Everton to re-submit their forms, stating a desire to take Fernandes only on loan even though they were aware of the club's ambition to sign Fernandes permanently.

 

A Premier League meeting last night failed to reach a conclusion in relation to Mascherano. Another meeting will take place today, but even then Liverpool could be left sweating on whether he will be able to move.

 

The delay has been caused by a failure to provide the right paperwork and there has been real drama behind the scenes to try to ensure that the deal goes through.

 

The Premier League insisted that they were not aware of a breach of their rules. "With what has been presented to us we haven't allowed anything that would transgress our rules," said a spokesman.

 

And they said the documents presented by Portsmouth and West Ham last summer satisfied their rules. What was less clear, however, was when the Premier League received all the necessary documentation.

 

Sportsmail has been told that West Ham received a letter from the Premier League warning them they could risk a points deduction if they failed to provide documentation.

 

Aware the situation was in danger of escalating, the Premier League moved this week to privately contact the 20 top-flight chairmen.

 

The document, from Premier League general secretary Mike Foster, appears to offer an amnesty to clubs that may have broken the rules.

 

It reminds clubs of Rule U18 which states: "No Club shall enter into a contract which enables any other party to that contract to acquire the ability materially to influence its policies or the performance of its teams."

 

Such contracts include those which allow the third party to control or influence the employment relationship between club and player, or give the third party the right to request or require a transfer of the player, a right to a share of the financial or economic rights.

 

But the Premier League then adopts a non-confrontational tone by simply "giving clubs the opportunity" within 14 days of producing details of any such contracts that were not disclosed when players were registered.

 

Foster's letter ends: "Once we have your responses, the board will consider relevant disclosures and then decide on appropriate action, if any."

 

The letter, however, has succeeded only in fuelling the suspicion among clubs fighting alongside West Ham to avoid relegation that a breach has already occurred.

[Guest TK-421]

Not aware of their own rules, fucking priceless.

[RoboRiise]

It's about to be one hell of a great finish to the week though :thumbup:

 

Amen to that, brother.

 

Haha, always make a good read your posts do, Robo.

 

It hasn't been all shit though, at least we got the player to sign for us and a Derby game is hardly ideal for a debut. Looking at the bigger picture this transfer window was a good one for us I think, things seemd to go pretty smoothly. We even managed to avoid an 11th hour cock up with Mascherano. I'm sure he'll be available to play against Newcastle in Xabi's absence.

 

Cheers mate - I do what I can to bring a little light into these dark days. Fair point about the transfer window in general too - we do seem to have brought in pretty much what Rafa intended, apart from the Antipodean highwayman of course and assuming Mascherano's deal is ratified, we've signed a cracking player.

 

As for oj's post above (which I won't quote needlessly on account of it's length), if true then it:

 

a) Shuts me right up

 

b) Is a very interesting development.

[coop]

How come then if Fernandes is under investigation he is cleared to play tomorrow but Mascherano isnt??????????????

[RedinSweden]

Amen to that, brother.

 

 

 

Cheers mate - I do what I can to bring a little light into these dark days. Fair point about the transfer window in general too - we do seem to have brought in pretty much what Rafa intended, apart from the Antipodean highwayman of course and assuming Mascherano's deal is ratified, we've signed a cracking player.

 

As for oj's post above (which I won't quote needlessly on account of it's length), if true then it:

 

a) Shuts me right up

 

b) Is a very interesting development.

 

It is the daily mail, known for being a big bunch of clueless wankers. Not saying it isn't right, but they do write a load of award-winning horseshit.

[Neil G]

I am right in thinking that if Mascherano was not owned by West Ham and he is not owned by Liverpool, then is he in effect on loan for the rest of his career, no matter what club he plays for? How can someone other than a football club own a player? It's a bit of a piss take.

 

I've been thinking about that too.

 

Is his contract with Joorabchian (sp?) like a player's contract with a club, i.e. it lasts for a determined number of years and when it expires he can walk away? Because if it is for the rest of his career, then I can't help thinking that he's basically a highly paid slave.

[RoboRiise]

It is the daily mail, known for being a big bunch of clueless wankers. Not saying it isn't right, but they do write a load of award-winning horseshit.

 

I wouldn't usually trust the mouthpiece of outraged middle England, but they must realise that if they're wrong, they will look like enormous twats if he's on the bench tomorrow. That's the only reason I gave it any credibility at all, to be honest.

[ali]

The Argentinian affair: Rafa's remarkable wooing of Mascherano

How Liverpool's manager won the heart and mind of a World Cup star. Now Anfield must await the approval of the Premier League

By Jason Burt

Published: 04 February 2007 - Indy

 

A few weeks ago Javier Mascherano had dec-ided to try to end the madness of his short, surreal career at West Ham United and join Juventus. Even though the Italian club, given their own dramatic travails, could hardly be described as a bastion of sanity, they appeared an attrac-tive haven for the miserable young Argentinian midfielder - and perhaps one more suited to his style of play. The Old Lady had charmed El Jefe (The Chief).

 

Then Mascherano received a knock on the door of his apartment in London's Docklands. It was Rafael Benitez. The Liverpool manager turned up unannounced and wanted to know why Mascherano had chosen the Stadio Delle Alpi ahead of Anfield. Over the next four hours Benitez talked to Mascherano as no coach had talked to him before, and the 22-year-old was utterly mesmerised. He also changed his mind. He would now try to join Liverpool.

 

During the conversation Benitez had sat leaning over the coffee table and enthusiastically using the decorative stones placed on it to represent Liverpool players, just as a father might improvise with salt and pepper pots to explain the game to his son. Benitez told Mascherano exactly where he fitted into the Liverpool team - apparently alongside Xabi Alonso, holding in the centre of midfield, with Steven Gerrard on the right.

 

It is a story that suggested the nightmare would turn into a fairytale for Mascherano. But that would be far too simple an outcome for the extraordinary saga that started last August, on the final day of the summer transfer window, when it was announced that Mascherano and Carlos Tevez, two of the hottest talents in world football, had joined West Ham. And without a transfer fee being paid.

 

No one could quite believe it. West Ham crowed how they had beaten off other clubs for the signatures, but it soon became apparent that no one else would have accepted the prohibitive terms under which the two players had arrived in England. Those terms have dogged proceedings ever since.

 

On another deadline day, the end of the January window last Wednesday, Kia Joorabchian, the Argentinians' mentor and the man who appears to control their "economic rights", was pacing his executive box at the Emirates Stadium. On the pitch, Arsenal were playing Tottenham Hotspur for a place in the League Cup final. Off it, Joorabchian was waiting for the mobile call to tell him that the Premier League had ratified the paperwork to allow Mascherano to move. It didn't come.

 

The documents were signed and delivered but Joorabchian, the 35-year-old Anglo-Iranian entrepreneur who had fronted a bid to buy West Ham and is looking to acquire another Premiership club, was told nothing would be agreed until the player's contract was scrutinised the following day. Such is the mad sequence of events that when Joorabchian asked where Mascherano, who he had hoped to sell for 25m euros (£16.5m) but is moving on an 18-month "loan", should report for training the next day - West Ham or Liver- pool - nobody knew the answer.

 

His frustration was compounded because the Premier League had written to Fifa for dispensation of their rules so that Mascherano could move to a third club within a season. Fifa had waited until the evening before the transfer window closed to grant this, partly because they did not want to receive a flood of similar requests.

 

It is a confusing situation. Mascherano's lawyers were always confident the Fifa rule could be challenged, even though the organisation had written to West Ham in December warning them that neither player could be offloaded. Neither was wanted by the new chairman, Eggert Magnusson, who, understandably, thought the deal stank. Just as importantly he also did not want Joorabchian, who was involved in a staggering 19 deals last month, to continue having links with West Ham.

 

It meant that the Hammers washed their hands of the whole thing. Tevez was playing, so it was harder for him to argue his career was being damaged. Crucially, Mascherano's contract appeared to differ from Tevez's, as did the issue of exactly who owned each player. That is still mired in secrecy, hence the hold-up in Mascherano being allowed to move to Liverpool.

 

The Premier League are now seeking clarity, are scrutinising all the documentation and have emailed clubs to detail the relevant rule - U18 - which deals with the issue of player ownership. Basically it states that Premiership clubs are prohibited from signing players who are "owned by a third party" who would have the "ability materially to influence its policies or the performance of its teams".

 

A comment by West Ham's manager, Alan Curbishley, was illuminating. Asked to explain Mascherano's departure, he said: "He hadn't played. Carlos was playing and was more settled, so I think they decided as soon as the window opened that there was a situation that could happen. I decided perhaps we should not stand in his way and to keep it clean we kept out of it."

 

It is who the "they" are that is the vexed issue, with Joorab-chian, who appears to have a 50 per cent stake; the company he previously worked with, MSI; and various other parties. West Ham held the registrations, with the players signing four-year deals, but there was another strand with owners who had a contractual right with West Ham over who they could be sold to in the future, for how much and when. Exactly who owns the players remains unknown, because the companies are registered in offshore tax havens.

 

It is a mess that needs clearing up so that it does not happen again. For a start, West Ham did not even appear to know that Mascherano had passed a medical and agreed terms with Liverpool some time ago. Were they aware that Benitez had been to see the player? And, if not, does that constitute "tapping up"? Curbishley has suggested West Ham did know, but added: "When Liverpool lodged their interest as a club we knew it was not all down to us, and we didn't want to stand in his way. That is why it was allowed to happen."

 

What is perhaps less confusing is why Mascherano, who played every minute of Argen-tina's World Cup campaign, did not succeed at Upton Park. In five months he played just five matches - and lost them all. But West Ham were the wrong team. The high-tempo, energetic style of play did not suit him. A struggling side, a club in turmoil failing to match last season's achievements, was not the right place.

 

"I arrived there with the hope of playing," he has since said, "so that European people would know me." He has certainly raised his profile. But not for the right reasons. Mascherano will hope Benitez can now alter that.