Brighton 3 Liverpool 0 (Jan 14 2023)

[tlw content]

 

Well that was…. different. All these recent games that we’ve been describing as shit, but then we see this, which points a whole different slant on them. Turns out those games weren’t that bad after all. We had whole new depths we could plumb. I think many of us knew we could lose this game as Brighton are kryptonite to us even when we’re great and right now we’re far from great, but did anyone foresee a performance so bad?

 

The good news is that it’s impossible to be worse than this. We might play this badly again but we definitely won’t play worse because it’s not possible. This is as bad as it’s possible to be. Absolute fucking dogshit in every facet of the game. Outfought, outthought, outplayed, out-coached, just really well beaten in every area of the park. Forget the scoreline, we could probably lose by a bigger margin and be nowhere near as bad as this. In fact we have done. This was far worse than when we lost 7-2 at Villa.

 

It’s hard to even process that we could be this bad. The performances against the likes of Leicester, Brentford and Wolves were the kind of thing we’ve seen sporadically over the years. Not good, stuttering, some flashes of good play but mostly well below par. We beat Leicester and could have beaten Wolves too (not that we deserved to win either but that’s not my point). It happens from time to time, you just don’t have it and the game could go either way. At least in all of those games - even Brentford - it was semi-recognisable as a Klopp team. A really poor version of it, granted, but the patterns of play were familiar, we dominated the ball and the shape of the team was what we’re used to etc.

 

I don’t know what this was though. I didn’t recognise any of it, either collectively or individually. What I do know is that it’s the worst display I’ve seen from us under Klopp. This was end of Houllier / Benitez / Rodgers era shit (or any time under Hodgson) except this is harder to understand because on paper this is still a good team and as recently as last season they almost won everything.

 

We shouldn’t be this bad yet here we are, sitting in 9th and quite frankly lucky to be as high as that (tip of the cap to Alisson for that). I’m not sure there is any team in the league I’d back us to beat at this moment in time, not even Everton. We’re a steaming hot mess and everyone is licking their lips at facing us because we’re soft as fuck, slow, toothless and bereft of any confidence or spirit.

 

There’s no escaping it. There are all sorts of reasons for it, some obvious some not, but it’s really jarring when you see top quality players looking like absolute fucking bums. Like I say, this was the worst I’ve seen from us and I know I’m not over-reacting because Klopp himself said it was the worst he’s seen, not just from his time with us either, but with Dortmund and Mainz too. Damn.

 

He looks shellshocked right now and it’s tough seeing him like this. He doesn’t know how to fix this and whatever it was they thought would fix it during the break has somehow made us worse.

 

We know the issues in midfield. The forwards are a problem too, and not just because they’re looking shite with the ball and more toothless than a national gurning contest. No, we’ve lost so much with our press too. Understandable, we’ve had so many changes in the forward line that we can’t expect the same results we had from that well oiled machine of Sadio, Bobby and Mo, and we’re having to make changes to it constantly too.

 

The lack of a coherent press up the pitch and the absence of any recovery pace in midfield means that defensively we’re a joke and Alisson already has more saves this season than he had all of last year. And we’re not even halfway through yet. Throw in all of the fitness issues, the drop off in sprints, opponents figuring out how to exploit our new found vulnerability and all of it has conspired to destroy confidence and morale and a performance like this is what we’re left with. These players are broken mentally now. Completely fucking frazzled.

 

The whole game was terrible but the second half is what concerns me most. Somehow we’d got in level at the break, but instead of taking advantage of that luck we went out and capitulated. Immediately. Collectively and individually this was just a total clown show. The coup de grace was letting Danny Welcrap channel his inner Gazza and embarrass us further. Good job lads, making that big dosser look like a footballer. *slow hand clap*

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[Barnesey]

They moved the ball very quickly - 1 or 2 touches, lots of movement with the wide players running with the ball when they had space. Our problem was a lack of energy - we couldn't get close to any of them.

 

The running stats highlight our failings. We need to forget what people are doing on the ball and worry what they do without it  Not a total fix but, perhaps, a big step forward to righting the wrongs.

[ralph]

Depressing to read Dave, too factual by far.

[Kevin D]

[Marcas]

Couldn't disagree with one word of that, particularly on Klopp. I've read so much 'FSG Out' shite since Saturday, but they don't pick or coach the team and I'm pretty sure Henry isn't in front of the whiteboard on a Friday before a game. It's true they haven't backed Klopp as much as everyone wants, but to an extent JK's let them off the hook time and time again saying he's happy with the MF players he has. How could you be happy with them?? They're a mix of 30-somethings, sick-notes and kids who show ZERO sign of ever being at the standard you need to compete at. Klopp should have been kicking the MD's fucking door in demanding back-up in the transfer market, but we stagnated instead. I have the argument over and over: when we dominated in the 80's we never stood still, we always were on the hunt for someone better, an upgrade and it didn't matter who you were, if there was someone better you got replaced. And I'm not letting the front 3 off either - I'm fucking sick of the sight of Mo running down yet another blind allay, into traffic and losing the ball. And to make matters worse I'm doing dry Jan in the middle of this shit... (sighs and rolls eyes)

[Section_31]

"The good news is that it’s impossible to be worse than this."

 

 

 

[King Kenny 86]

When JK got it all going we were a mighty beast, we loved it when teams tried to go toe to toe it usually ended in disaster for them. Those cheating cunts down the east lancs just kept winning so hitting 95 plus points was not enough, it was draws that did for us in many of the last 5 seasons.

Couple of years they said they had to evolve and Thiago was the start. That nugget to breakdown stubborn defences and turn those draws into wins.

MAYBE that is where Carvalho and Elliot came in to make us that possession based dominant force.

But who else? The rest of the squad was based on press press work work.

Diaz is Mane light but the potential to be a real legend...

When Saudi Toon stole our motto they have literally stole our identity.

Dave on the pod constantly asks who should go? As you role through the squad the obvious names will crop up, Ox Keita, maybe fabinho, the Hendo haters (not me) but then most will pause and struggle. I hold my hands up Thiago was never for me in the prem. Thought he would slow us down that he was built for City more than us plus his age. But he has held us together most weeks.

I am putting a large chunk of this on the backroom staff, coaches , medical team etc. We had a 6 week break, most of our 7 players at the WC were not over taxed and we came out of that worse and more injuries.

 

We look like when Ten Hag took over at Utd. Tried to press with players totally incapable of doing what he needed, that's us at the moment.

 

Now he has sorted some shit out Rashford is a world beater and they are hard to beat. Do they press, not always he is pragmatic and plays on the break now and then.

 

City are off the pace, as has been said they are great front runners but chasing? No. That title is already in Arsenal pocket unless they capitulate.

 

Newcastle (hate talking about them) but recruiting Burn, Isaak, Botman, Pope and Trippier probably disappointed the fans but they are set up well and organised.

 

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing time and time again and expect the same result 

All those shit performances leading to Brighton.

They did change the shape but with the same personnel who does that? If you want a creative player at the top of a diamond it's not Thiago, Keita maybe, Ox possibly Curtis even.

Then sit deep and compact and play round them.

That would be something different 

Play 3 at the back 

Put Sleepy Joe right back and trent in midfield 

Those options are something a bit different not just moving Thiago from the left to a tip of a diamond then all charge forward.

Individually most of our team WALK into the top 6 in the prem. Most clubs would love Klopp (other than City) last season Arsenal would have sacked Arteta to get Klopp.

We weren't perfect last season and lack of midfield investment has hurt us but for me the slower tiki taki way we play and are being coached is and has been the biggest concern.

 

Finally Hat off to Adam Llalana not only did his help make us great I bet his influence on how Brighton have evolved has been key. Klopp told us that when he was on the defending part of the press at training he always found a way out of it.

 

Soul searching on the coaching team please Jurgen. Get us organised please.

We are right behind you.

 

 

 

 

 

[aws]

I think Jurgen needs to do something radical to shake us out of this torpor. Too many look disinterested and just going through the motions.  Maybe try 3-5-2 particularly as we’ve only got two forwards.

The effort Harvey put in to pressure Brighton put Fab and Hendo to shame and even on-his-way Keita seemed more up for it than those two so maybe play him and Harvey either side of Thiago. Alternatively start Milner as he’ll at least inject some energy and aggression even if he is as slow as whoever he replaces - sub him after the first foul after the inevitable yellow. 

 

Mo looks bored to tears too but not much choice at the moment. Maybe he’ll get more interested if the rest of the team bucks up. 

[JustTosh]

Klopp has a huge influence on his teams, always had. He used to look like a proper maniac, a lunatic getting booked for running out on the field to celebrate with his players, fist pumping towards the fans. The team responded with the same aggression.  Mentality Monsters they were.

 

Now Klopp looks like an old, tired and grumpy man. So does his team. Mentality Mignons they are.

 

The world has turned upside down. We now look like Arsenal a couple of seasons ago while Arsenal looks like us

[mike23]

The Ox chance must have occurred during the period when my stream died and I was hunting around for another one (must admit I was half hoping I wouldn't find one) as I can't remember it at all. I love most of these players for what they've given us in the last few years but this performance was just embarrassing. It was as bad as anything we saw from United last season when we were all laughing at them. How quickly things can change. If we ever become really good again then I might rewatch this game to remind myself not to ever take winning for granted again like I have done at times in the last few years. 

[3 Stacks]

You captured it well, negativity is really the only realistic thing to feel.

 

Simplistically, it boils down to the players not being able to execute anything that Klopp wants and Klopp not knowing what to do about it. 

 

What makes it even worse is that Klopp knew we were shite months ago, which is why he tried to change it to a 4-4-2/diamond. But then it seems like we spent the World Cup break trying to go back to mostly what we were trying to do at the beginning of the season and we thought that time would help us figure it out, but it absolutely hasn't. 

 

We have to do like in 20/21 and have some sort of short term tactical change that makes it easier on the players or else we'll just get twatted every game. The diamond sort of worked, not really, but sort of, and once Firmino is back we should probably go back to it, or literally anything else than what we're doing right now.  Or maybe not absolutely anything else. We tried some weird midfield box out of possession in this game with Thiago playing further up and that was atrocious. 

 

Anyway, yeah, no way Klopp should be sacked, pretty much ever, but this season and these performances are bad enough where I think it's probably worth revisiting his role at the club. Maybe give him less power, less decision-making responsibility on transfers and let him focus on just managing. I don't know. I think we need a strong Director of Football. 

[Chris]

It's a weird place to be. We can all see its completely broken and we've been here before, I'd say, four times, in my time supporting the Reds. Evans, GH, Rafa and Rodgers (Souness and Hodgson don't count because they fucking sucked all along and I didn't want Kenny to go the second time) where you know change is inevitable and necessary.

 

It's different here, of course it is, because Klopp is the best manager we've had in my lifetime, has delivered such incredible success and has come to represent so much more than that.

 

However, when it comes down to it, how many times have we ever seen managers get *IT* back after it has so obviously deserted his team?

 

I don't want change, at all. I'd still want Klopp to be our manager even if we were in Everton's position. However, am I certain he's going to be able to turn this around? Well, no. 

[Dave D]

Klopp has lost the eye of the tiger, no doubt about it and its reflecting at every level.

 

Hopefully he goes to some rundown gym in Germany late at night and Buvac shows up and they go running on the beach together a few times.

 

We then get Klopp back (glasses included) looking like a maniac again    

[KMD7]

Klopp needs to find his glasses pronto 

[Dave D]

Us in a few weeks

 

[stringvest]

I do think the malaise is off the pitch as well.  What we need is an Istanbul half-time moment.  Like then, it was the fans wot did it.  The manager is out of ideas, the players lack belief, perhaps the crowd need to give the performance of their lives.  Pick a side that will respond to that.  A side of brave players.  Fuck Henderson and Fabinho and any other cowards and frauds off.  Nunez back, causing mayhem.  Milner fully rested and ready to deal out a few reducers.  One or two of the youngsters who would surf the wave of the crowd noise and run themselves into the ground.  Konate and Nat ready to instil some no-nonsense defending.  Tsimikas on to provide one of his adrenaline-fuelled performances.  Joe and Trent on the right hand side.  Get back on the front foot and batter Wolves for a start.  

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

I do think the malaise is off the pitch as well.  What we need is an Istanbul half-time moment.  Like then, it was the fans wot did it.  The manager is out of ideas, the players lack belief, perhaps the crowd need to give the performance of their lives.  Pick a side that will respond to that.  A side of brave players.  Fuck Henderson and Fabinho and any other cowards and frauds off.  Nunez back, causing mayhem.  Milner fully rested and ready to deal out a few reducers.  One or two of the youngsters who would surf the wave of the crowd noise and run themselves into the ground.  Konate and Nat ready to instil some no-nonsense defending.  Tsimikas on to provide one of his adrenaline-fuelled performances.  Joe and Trent on the right hand side.  Get back on the front foot and batter Wolves for a start.  

[ZonkoVille77]

Genuinely still in shock at what we've seen this season. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Klopp thinks he can't do any more and fucks off in the summer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aws]

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

I do think the malaise is off the pitch as well.  What we need is an Istanbul half-time moment.  Like then, it was the fans wot did it.  The manager is out of ideas, the players lack belief, perhaps the crowd need to give the performance of their lives.  Pick a side that will respond to that.  A side of brave players.  Fuck Henderson and Fabinho and any other cowards and frauds off.  Nunez back, causing mayhem.  Milner fully rested and ready to deal out a few reducers.  One or two of the youngsters who would surf the wave of the crowd noise and run themselves into the ground.  Konate and Nat ready to instil some no-nonsense defending.  Tsimikas on to provide one of his adrenaline-fuelled performances.  Joe and Trent on the right hand side.  Get back on the front foot and batter Wolves for a start.  

Agree with Stringy 100%. We need to be competing with other sides for running, effort and aggression and then hope that our classier forwards will win a few games for us. 

[stringvest]

From the Grauniad:

 

Where did that smile go? Down at Brighton, Jürgen Klopp looked to be pondering a running jump into the English Channel. “Really bad,” groaned Jürg. “Sorry,” he wailed at another point. “I can’t remember a worse game,” he sobbed. “I honestly can’t. And I mean all, not only Liverpool. I can’t remember. And that’s my responsibility.”

That Liverpool’s defeat at Brighton was not unexpected only added to the gloom. The word’s been out for a while that The Red Machine ain’t what it used to be. Sometime, somewhere last spring, the engine sputtered and never got back up to full revs. The midfield trio of Jordan Henderson, Thiago and Fabinho that took Liverpool so close to impossible heights doddered around at the Amex. Moisés Caicedo and Alexis Mac Allister splintered them into pieces. The latter was so dominant, he could have probably worn his World Cup winner’s medal and sauntered past dear Hendo.

It left Liverpool’s defence cruelly exposed. Trent Alexander-Arnold usually gets the blame, and he received a frightful chasing from Kaoru Mitoma, but the right-back was given zero assistance. Besides, Andy Robertson hardly found it easier against two-goal Solly “Solomon” March off the other flank. All rather grim. No wonder so many lifelong devotees of those tricky Reds are looking to the local Sunday pub league and China Crisis going back on tour to find some kicks.

Plenty of blame to go around. Why don’t Liverpool run like they used to? Who let Gini Wijnaldum leave? Signing Cody Gakpo when a midfielder was needed? Just whose fault is Darwin Núñez? And, perhaps most of all, has Jürg become the god that failed? For the first time, those ever reliable barometers of public opinion, the radio phone-ins, are suggesting it’s TIME TO GO. Should Steven Gerrard hold off taking the Poland job to claim his rightful crown? That’s still unlikely, and for the moment, Liverpool’s owners are taking the heat and the manager has also begun preparing the underside of a bus. “We need to be creative with the options we have,” howled Jürg. “What I saw today from my team was that they were not really convinced by it.”

Links with a potential, rather opaque Qatari buyout have raised excitement among some fans though not those who wish to associate their club with social justice. Though perhaps an injection of petrodollar cash would allow Jude Bellingham to come in and immediately cure those midfield ills. Mind, Chelsea have spent only £32m less since Todd Boehly fired up his Blackberry than Liverpool have in the last 10 transfer windows and are as bad as Jürg’s boys.

Perhaps what Liverpool fans want most of all is to go back four years or so to relive the ascent. “Poetry in motion”, “imagine being us” and all that. And still, things could be worse. They could support The Ev …

[Section_31]

The warning signs for me were against Everton and the mancs, even when we've been far shitter in terms of personnel over the years I've never seen such a lack of fucks given by a liverpool team in those fixtures. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Who wrote that some manc chromosome!

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Who wrote that some manc chromosome!

 

Mark's from Speke

[Bobby Hundreds]

3 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

Mark's from Speke

"So what" I sobbed

 

[Josef Svejk]

It's become received wisdom that we were "decent" against Villa. I thought we were appalling for most of that game, too. 7-2 level appalling.

 

We've been absolutely atrocious this side of the World Cup. And relatively lucky with it.