Damning Stats....

[an tha]

 

 

For my money thay big chances table is an absolutely damning reflection on our players and how they are being set up/coached.

 

It is a really serious problem that it appears we have no answers to, which is deeply worrying.

 

It is fucking awful....All the teams we are supposed to be competing with are at the bottom of the big chances given up table and then there’s us at 3rd worst - with similar and worse numbers than the dross.

 

Yeah we play high risk high reward footy but for fuck sake - that is unacceptable and when you couple it with our rapidly dropping intensity it isn't hard to join the dots is it...Yet we seem unable or even possibly unwilling to fix.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

@VladimirIlyich

What do you make of this bollocks?

[Scott_M]

That has got to be down to coaching. I don’t except that tail off just because players are 6m older. 

[El Rojo]

Hardly surprising given what we've seen. 

 

Things would be worse it wasn't for the brilliance of Alisson, too. 

[DJLJ]

Add in that we also are the team that has the 2 that wastes the biggest chances and it is easy to see why we are where we are. We need wholesale changes, not just in midfield but also defence and attack. Probably coaching and sports science also, a bit of a mess. 

[Megadrive Man]

We look more like a team in a relegation battle than one that were expected to compete for the title, so those stats are no surprise really.

 

I'd like to see us be a lot more pragmatic for the rest of the season.

 

Something like a 4-4-2 

GK Alisson

RB Gomez

LB Robertson

CB Matip

CB Konate

RM Trent

LM Tsimikas

CM Thiago

CM Fabinho

ST Salah

ST Gakpo/Nunez

 

Something like that would make us a lot stronger defensively. It would allow Trent and Kostas to be able to get forward and whip balls in without having to worry about defensive duties too.

[Scott_M]

11 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

We look more like a team in a relegation battle than one that were expected to compete for the title, so those stats are no surprise really.

 

I'd like to see us be a lot more pragmatic for the rest of the season.

 

Something like a 4-4-2 

GK Alisson

RB Gomez

LB Robertson

CB Matip

CB Konate

RM Trent

LM Tsimikas

CM Thiago

CM Fabinho

ST Salah

ST Gakpo/Nunez

 

Something like that would make us a lot stronger defensively. It would allow Trent and Kostas to be able to get forward and whip balls in without having to worry about defensive duties too.

 

That's basically 6-2-2 !!! No thanks.

 

I don't know what to suggest with us at the moment. These stats definitely feel like something different we are trying to implement, it's clearly not working. I think I posted them distance / sprints graph in another thread yesterday, it's incredibly damning. 

 

If we feel the issue is Thiago, Fabinho & Hendo (ie midfield) maybe change it to 4-2-3-1. Have 2 players purely sitting & protecting in front of the back 4 who don't really move and let the press come from the younger, fitter, faster players. 

 

If we were to do that, then who would be the 10? 

[Megadrive Man]

8 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

That's basically 6-2-2 !!! No thanks.

 

If we were to do that, then who would be the 10? 

That's the point though, we are giving up too many chances and conceding too many goals.

 

You're suggesting that we go more attacking?

 

Fabio Carvalho played mostly as a 10 for Fulham but I don't think he's up to it in the Premier League.

[TheSire]

32 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

We look more like a team in a relegation battle than one that were expected to compete for the title, so those stats are no surprise really.

 

I'd like to see us be a lot more pragmatic for the rest of the season.

 

Something like a 4-4-2 

GK Alisson

RB Gomez

LB Robertson

CB Matip

CB Konate

RM Trent

LM Tsimikas

CM Thiago

CM Fabinho

ST Salah

ST Gakpo/Nunez

 

Something like that would make us a lot stronger defensively. It would allow Trent and Kostas to be able to get forward and whip balls in without having to worry about defensive duties too.

Why would they not have to worry about defensive duties exactly?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

54 minutes ago, DJLJ said:

We need wholesale changes, not just in midfield but also defence and attack. 

You mean, we need to sign 5 forwards in two and a half seasons?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

39 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

We look more like a team in a relegation battle than one that were expected to compete for the title, so those stats are no surprise really.

 

I'd like to see us be a lot more pragmatic for the rest of the season.

 

Something like a 4-4-2 

GK Alisson

RB Gomez

LB Robertson

CB Matip

CB Konate

RM Trent

LM Tsimikas

CM Thiago

CM Fabinho

ST Salah

ST Gakpo/Nunez

 

Something like that would make us a lot stronger defensively. It would allow Trent and Kostas to be able to get forward and whip balls in without having to worry about defensive duties too.

Fuck paying to watch six defenders and two defensive midfielders.

[Scott_M]

4 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

That's the point though, we are giving up too many chances and conceding too many goals.

 

You're suggesting that we go more attacking?

 

Fabio Carvalho played mostly as a 10 for Fulham but I don't think he's up to it in the Premier League.

 

I'm not suggesting more attacking. We're actually sacrificing another more attacking player. 

 

At the moment, we only have Fabinho who really holds and shields the 2 centre backs, while the other 2 midfielders roam. We're allowed to do this (or were) because Fabinho was outstanding and if he didn't cover, our centre backs are good at reading the game and are fast.

 

By playing another midfielder alongside Fabinho, we're giving more support to Fabinho to stop counts and in turn, more cover to the centre backs - in theory, we should be less exposed.  

 

If players age, as some feel, might be an issue with the intense pressing, because Fabinho / Thiago / Hendo won't need to be bombing round the pitch as much and we allow the younger, faster players to do the press.

 

With VVD being out and us likely to be weaker at the back, I don't think being a little more pragmatic would hurt and we're always likely to create chances.

[Scott_M]

1 hour ago, DJLJ said:

Add in that we also are the team that has the 2 that wastes the biggest chances and it is easy to see why we are where we are. We need wholesale changes, not just in midfield but also defence and attack. Probably coaching and sports science also, a bit of a mess. 

 

Yeah, but apart from that...

[Megadrive Man]

10 minutes ago, TheSire said:

Why would they not have to worry about defensive duties exactly?

Because they'd be playing on the wing in midfield, Gomez and Robertson would be responsible for defending on either side.

[Megadrive Man]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Fuck paying to watch six defenders and two defensive midfielders.

 

Our full backs have essentially been playing more like wingers for years anyway.  If we haven't got the legs in midfield to play the way we used to then we need to try something different.

 

[an tha]

I just don't understand why we can't or seemingly won't go back to having two workhorses alongside Thiago or whoever plays when he is out in midfield who press like fuck and win 2nd balls and sense and snuff out danger, with their main job being to get the ball once they win it to our marauding full backs or the front men quickly and whilst the opposition are out of shape.

 

It would make us so much better again and it would fix so many of our problems.

 

I have said it before and I 100% stand by it and believe it to be true - put both the Wijnaldum and Henderson of 2018-20 in this side and you improve it no end....you stop teams walking through the middle of us and you protect the now almost laughably predictable targeting of space down our right side better too.

 

The protection for our full backs pushing on is just not there like it was.

 

The press from the front that Firmino and Mane were so effective at which won us so much ball high up and squeezed and penned teams in is missing too.

 

 

[Megadrive Man]

1 minute ago, an tha said:

I just don't understand why we can't or seemingly won't go back to having two workhorses alongside Thiago.

 

 

 

We don't really have anyone in the squad capable of doing that job though.

 

Milner and Henderson can't do it anymore.

Keita and Ox have never done it so are unlikely to do it in the last few months of their Liverpool career.

 

Jones, Elliott, Carvalho clearly aren't the answer so we aren't able to do it unless we're bringing two new players in.

[TheHowieLama]

why we can't or seemingly won't go back to having two workhorses alongside Thiago

 

Can't do what you don't got.

[Scott_M]

11 minutes ago, an tha said:

I just don't understand why we can't or seemingly won't go back to having two workhorses alongside Thiago or whoever plays when he is out in midfield who press like fuck and win 2nd balls and sense and snuff out danger, with their main job being to get the ball once they win it to our marauding full backs or the front men quickly and whilst the opposition are out of shape.

 

As others have said, we don't have those players anymore.

 

I tried to come up with a solution around it. I know the club obviously has better football brains than mine working for it, with the players we have, I struggle to see an alternative. 

[an tha]

12 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

We don't really have anyone in the squad capable of doing that job though.

 

Milner and Henderson can't do it anymore.

Keita and Ox have never done it so are unlikely to do it in the last few months of their Liverpool career.

 

Jones, Elliott, Carvalho clearly aren't the answer so we aren't able to do it unless we're bringing two new players in.

100%

 

And that is the point is for me, it is the point I have made many times - buy them - and we should have done it at start of this season.

 

 

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think maybe we should give it a rest with the fullbacks getting forward all the time and see if we can play a bit of football without handing the opposition a strapon and asking to be pegged like the future king of England.

 

Just please for the love of god! change shit. Its the basic gameplan knobbing us every week and still! STILL!!!!!  We oblige. Let's ignore the evidence of our eyes and go again.

 

 

[Jairzinho]

13 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

Our full backs have essentially been playing more like wingers for years anyway.  If we haven't got the legs in midfield to play the way we used to then we need to try something different.

 

 

The problem with that 4-4-2 is that the fullbacks and wingers would end up occupying the same space. It was a worse set of players but we had the same briefly about a decade ago with Enrique and Downing. Both very left footed, both wanted to cross the ball rather than cut inside. They stood on each others toes.

 

4-2-3-1 is pragmatic enough, I think.

 

Alisson

TAA Matip Konate Robertson

Fabinho Thiago

Salah Chamberlain Gakpo

Nunez

 

Keep the two holding midfielders deep. Less running for them (something neither are very good at), and let them screen the back four. Chamberlain is obviously fucking shit but he can run around, and that would be his job. Run around and be fucking irritating. Press and track runners. Could also be Keita. Hopefully one of the two could be available...sometimes.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

@VladimirIlyich

What do you make of this bollocks?

Bollocks! Lies,damn lies and stats.

[etho]

That 4-4-2 with 6 defenders and 2 DMS is laughably shit obviously. I think people wanting the pragmatic 4-2-3-1 approach forget we have already literally tried that this season and it got thrown out the window during an absolutely pathetic 2-1 home defeat to Leeds. Our form improved before the break by going back to what we know in the 4-3-3, and I think Mo even said the players were alot more comfortable with that. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, etho said:

That 4-4-2 with 6 defenders and 2 DMS is laughably shit obviously. I think people wanting the pragmatic 4-2-3-1 approach forget we have already literally tried that this season and it got thrown out the window during an absolutely pathetic 2-1 home defeat to Leeds. Our form improved before the break by going back to what we know in the 4-3-3, and I think Mo even said the players were alot more comfortable with that. 

There's no great mystery here. We all know we need a couple of signings to add quality and energy to our midfield and we all know that half of our forwards are injured. With what we already know, those stats are unsurprising.