General Election 2019

[aRdja]

Kuensberg caught lying again.

 

 

Looking real sinister at this point. Wow.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

13 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Bit surprised that the Telegraph didn't buy it then bury it. 

 

She was apparently on Good Morning Britain this morning but didn't answer any questions put to her. Probably doesn't want to lose out on a paper paying her to get the headlines/story. Even when/if it comes out I doubt it will damage Johnson, the idiots who like him will probably like him more for being one of the boys. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

52 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

That post about doubling of support vs 1997 to 2015 Labour. It was a Stronts special. But honestly, I’m retired from making long posts on the GF to ‘win’ an internet debate. It just doesn’t matter. 

Doubling membership, not "support". 

 

Still, when facts don't fit your Eeyore worldview, you can dispense with them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 17/11/2019 at 09:51, Rico1304 said:

9:51 on BBC, when Corbyn confirmed he wants out of Europe.  

Mn'kay.

 

What did he say?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 17/11/2019 at 12:06, Pistonbroke said:

 

Corbyn will definitely gain more voters than Johnson on his walkabouts. Johnson just chickens out if he realises the crowds don't buy his bullshit, regardless of how the mainstream media doctor their reports. 

This could be key. If Labour target their best campaigning to winnable marginals (beneath Kuenssberg's radar) then we could do something positive.  If we get onto the back foot and allow the Tories to make it all about Brexit, then we could be as doomed as NV already thinks we are.

[Red Phoenix]

I wonder what the polls would be now without the whole antisemitism smear campaign. Could be a few percentage points better maybe. That won't get mentioned much if Labour lose though because so many people still believe it's genuine. The BBC propaganda special will have helped with that too not long back.

 

I think Corbyn's biggest problem was not fighting back against this shit. Laura cunthead from the BBC said back there something like him trotting out the usual thing in response to antisemitism and she's actually right. Peope now expect to hear the same thing repeated. It's nothing new or interesting, and it doesn't have a real effect. If he'd actually changed his responses a while back and pointed out some of the cunts behind this smear campaign the whole thing could've started turning against them by now.

 

Have got to wonder what the fuck Seumas Milne has been thinking throughout this too, really thought he'd have tried advising a better response than what we've seen and been wiser to it all. Maybe he did but Corbyn didn't want to get involved. It's ok trying to have a nicer politics but that doesn't mean you should put up with this shit.

 

He'd probably just be getting called a communist instead though I suppose if something had been done. Can't be very easy to fight the Tories, Lib Dems and Brexit Party when they're all focused on making sure that Labour lose above all else. Set of scum. Amazing how many people go along with it.

[Anubis]

2 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

...means things are going to get worse for those in need, the NHS will be under threat, and I suspect Labour will choose somebody hideous like Rebecca Long-Bailey to pick up the baton. 
 

So, ya know, fuck it. Don’t worry, be happy. Cause every little thing... 

You know what, all we ever get from middle class whinging is how things will be worse for the poor. Never about how much worse it’ll get for them under Brexit. Which is what they really mean. 
 

This video has been posted previously. Watch it again. These people are already at the bottom. Worse for them is marginal. Marginal. There really isn’t much, if anything, left to take. Kids with no future. A bloke delivering for Amazon just to stay afloat. Not to have any niceties. Just to subsist.

 

These people don’t need to worry about free movement, the colour of passports, or how quickly they can get through customs and onto the beach.

 

Is it any wonder that when they saw an opportunity to give the rest of us a Brexit bloody nose, they took it. For years we’ve sat back and acquiesced as they faced zero hour contracts, harsh benefit tests (nice one Yvette), the slow destruction of the NHS, and an ever-widening disparity between the haves and have-nots. Lectures on being frugal as they go to the foodbank, from wealthy people charging £48 breakfasts to the public purse. Demands for food to be delivered from everywhere, and demands for same day delivery, not realising what stresses and strains are put on those given shit money and expected to work long hours to meet a ridiculous delivery schedule, pay their own petrol, and provide their own vans.

 

Amazon workers camping outside the depot because they don’t have houses and have shit shifts? No worries. Just sit back knowing Donna’s cakes are fucking delicious and you can pre-book a Disney themed ride to see Amazon’s little hand-picked Elves pack boxes with smiles fixed to their little faces. 
 

And those that aren’t them are guilty of it. All of us. Me included.
 

So if you want to take a dig at those of us who did want a shot at changing the system in their favour for once then go ahead and do it. But don’t any of you pretend that first and foremost in your mind isn’t the effect on you, rather than them.

 

 

 

And breathe....

[Red Phoenix]

Wonder if the antisemitism twats have something planned to take attention away from the manifesto release later this week. Wouldn't be a surprise at all.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Doubling membership, not "support". 

 

Still, when facts don't fit your Eeyore worldview, you can dispense with them.

‘Facts’. Exactly like SD. The problem is the ones you left out. It genuinely is one of the most cockeyed, misleading posts I’ve read in a long while on here. If I didn’t know you weren’t stupid and read that post, I’d have thought you were an idiot. You’re not anywhere near that, so like when SD does it, I think you dispensed with a few facts of your own. Why else make a post so devoid of context and important information. 
 

I don’t have an Eeyore world view, I have a  negative view of Labour’s ability to win an election. 

[Red Phoenix]

And of course there's this shit to deal with again too :

 

 

I've not totally given up hope that something good can happen, but it's going to be seriously difficult for Labour now by the looks of it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

33 minutes ago, Anubis said:

You know what, all we ever get from middle class whinging is how things will be worse for the poor. Never about how much worse it’ll get for them under Brexit. Which is what they really mean. 
 

This video has been posted previously. Watch it again. These people are already at the bottom. Worse for them is marginal. Marginal. There really isn’t much, if anything, left to take. Kids with no future. A bloke delivering for Amazon just to stay afloat. Not to have any niceties. Just to subsist.

 

These people don’t need to worry about free movement, the colour of passports, or how quickly they can get through customs and onto the beach.

 

Is it any wonder that when they saw an opportunity to give the rest of us a Brexit bloody nose, they took it. For years we’ve sat back and acquiesced as they faced zero hour contracts, harsh benefit tests (nice one Yvette), the slow destruction of the NHS, and an ever-widening disparity between the haves and have-nots. Lectures on being frugal as they go to the foodbank, from wealthy people charging £48 breakfasts to the public purse. Demands for food to be delivered from everywhere, and demands for same day delivery, not realising what stresses and strains are put on those given shit money and expected to work long hours to meet a ridiculous delivery schedule, pay their own petrol, and provide their own vans.

 

Amazon workers camping outside the depot because they don’t have houses and have shit shifts? No worries. Just sit back knowing Donna’s cakes are fucking delicious and you can pre-book a Disney themed ride to see Amazon’s little hand-picked Elves pack boxes with smiles fixed to their little faces. 
 

And those that aren’t them are guilty of it. All of us. Me included.
 

So if you want to take a dig at those of us who did want a shot at changing the system in their favour for once then go ahead and do it. But don’t any of you pretend that first and foremost in your mind isn’t the effect on you, rather than them.

 

 

 

And breathe....

It really isn’t going to impact me that much, to be honest. I do think it - both Brexit and the Tory government - will make things worse for those who need a bit of help. I also want to make things better for them, I just disagree on the most effective way to do it. First step is to win an election otherwise absolutely everything else counts for nothing. 

[Brownie]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It really isn’t going to impact me that much, to be honest. I do think it - both Brexit and the Tory government- will make things worse for those who need a bit of help. I also want to make things better for them, I just disagree on the most effective way to do it. First step is to win an election otherwise absolutely everything else counts for nothing. 

You missed out the bit where you have to water down your own views and proposals in order to win that election.

[Bjornebye]

Anyone see that blatant Lib-Dem plant ask a question in the audience at this CBI conference here? They want a coalition its plain and simple. 

[Barrington Womble]

That survation poll makes pretty depressing reading. I was convinced the Tories couldn't increase their majority as they'd lose too many seats to the SNP and LibDems. If they're forecast for an 80 seat majority, how many seats are labour going to lose, 100? 

[Brownie]

Just watched Corbyn’s speech and Q&A at the CBI. He’s very clearly on hostile ground but I thought he came across really well, very statesman-like and his points were well argued.

 

No doubt it will have gone down like a lead balloon but I was impressed anyway.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

You missed out the bit where you have to water down your own views and proposals in order to win that election.

What would you prefer, watered down left wing policies or the far right of the conservative party running the show? There's no discussion in my opinion. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Brownie said:

You missed out the bit where you have to water down your own views and proposals in order to win that election.

I’m not, not significantly anyway, but even then I’d much sooner have a Labour government than a Labour opposition. After all, it’s the first step. And I’d much prefer New Labour - which seems to be what people think I’m arguing for - to these Tories. I shouldn’t have to list all the progressive things New Labour did, and how much the Health and Education of the nation improved via services that people on here, including me, smacked the Coalition for canning. 
 

I have a hard job understanding the view that being out of government and letting the Tories run riot is better than getting a majority and then pushing through things after. 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

I’m not, not significantly anyway, but even then I’d much sooner have a Labour government than a Labour opposition. After all, it’s the first step. And I’d much prefer New Labour - which seems to be what people think I’m arguing for - to these Tories. I shouldn’t have to list all the progressive things New Labour did, and how much the Health and Education of the nation improved via services that people on here, including me, smacked the Coalition for canning. 
 

I have a hard job understanding the view that being out of government and letting the Tories run riot is better than getting a majority and then pushing through things after. 

I thought you weren't arsed anymore? 

[Brownie]

Just now, Barry Wom said:

What would you prefer, watered down left wing policies or the far right of the conservative party running the show? There's no discussion in my opinion. 

You see when you frame it like that it’s an easy answer but you know as well as I do that it’s not as simple as that.

 

Presumably the likes of Smith, Kendall etc would have been “watered-down left” but I think actions since then have proven that to be a misguided view.
 

The worst thing the party could do is to water down its radical policies in the aftermath of defeat, in my opinion.

 

The dial needs pushing to the left and I think the fact that the Tories are backing up on some of their principles is proof that it’s being achieved.

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I’m not, not significantly anyway, but even then I’d much sooner have a Labour government than a Labour opposition. After all, it’s the first step. And I’d much prefer New Labour - which seems to be what people think I’m arguing for - to these Tories. I shouldn’t have to list all the progressive things New Labour did, and how much the Health and Education of the nation improved via services that people on here, including me, smacked the Coalition for canning. 
 

I have a hard job understanding the view that being out of government and letting the Tories run riot is better than getting a majority and then pushing through things after. 

My argument isn’t that it’s better.

[Barrington Womble]

25 minutes ago, Brownie said:

You see when you frame it like that it’s an easy answer but you know as well as I do that it’s not as simple as that.

 

Presumably the likes of Smith, Kendall etc would have been “watered-down left” but I think actions since then have proven that to be a misguided view.
 

The worst thing the party could do is to water down its radical policies in the aftermath of defeat, in my opinion.

 

The dial needs pushing to the left and I think the fact that the Tories are backing up on some of their principles is proof that it’s being achieved.

You sound like you want to change labour into the green or the Brexit party. Don't worry about winning seats, just try and change the policies of the big boys. I can 100% say I would much sooner have a centre left government than a Tory government every day of the week. 

[moof]

If only they had a moderate, sensible watered down left wing leader like Ed Milliband. That would win an election. 

 

The idea that that Labour should shift back toward the centre ground is born from an ignorance of what is required to move society forwards. 

[Strontium]

Maybe a new slogan is needed, like "Great Leap Forward" or something.

[Bjornebye]

"Want two for the price of one? Vote Liberal" 

[Mudface]

9 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

You sound like you want to change labour into the green or the Brexit party. Don't worry about winning seats, just try and change the policies of the big boys. I can 100% say I would much sooner have a centre left government than a Tory government every day of the week. 

But Corbyn is pretty much centre left. Milliband, Brown and Blair are centrists, and probably closer to centre right than centre left. From Political Compass-

 

2015 election

 

 

2017 election-

 

 

So there's a significant realignment leftwards, but in the grand scheme of things, Labour really aren't far left by any means.