What is acceptable after 19 games of our PL season?

[TheHowieLama]

Anyhone think he actually resembled a footballer against Man City in the Etihad?

 

 

Apparently.

[GJM]

But the thing is that could not be further from the truth if you tried, posession based football is the least effective way of playing football and there is no way around it.

 

People might look at Barca as some kind of role model but its nothing like Rodgers set up, nothing at all and people also seem to forget Barca have messi. the best footballer ever to grace this planet, take him out and see how effective they are.

 

Keeping posession in your own half when trying to win the game is laughable and we will not even get close to anything unless Rodgers gets away from this ridiculous idea he has implented at a lower mid table team, it did not really work out well there and it does not work out really well here either, but for some funny reason people think its the way forward.

 

Ridiculous and it show a complete lack of basic football understanding.

 

After having played 11 games last season, we had an average of 55.9% of possession. After 11 games this season, we have an average of 57.4% possession.

 

In terms of minutes with the ball, this means that we’ve had the ball roughly 15minutes longer so far this season than we had at the same point last season.

 

We have, however, scored exactly the same number of goals after 11 games this season as we had last – 14.

 

Combining time with the ball and goals scored, we can see that last season we were scoring a goal every 39 minutes in possession. This season we need a little longer with the ball to score, but not very much – a little over 40 minutes per goal. So, however ineffective we may be perceived to be with the ball this season, we were not doing very much better at the same point in 2011.

 

Where there is a big difference, however, is goals conceded. Last season, after 11 games, opposition teams were scoring 1 goal against us every 43 minutes that they had possession. This season, they only need the ball 26 minutes to score a goal.

 

The difference this season is much less our ability to score goals when we have the ball, and much more our ability to stop the opposition scoring when they win it back.

[bouncebrigade]

The general statistics out there on the correlation between possession and goals scored state that the former has fuck all to do with the latter. It can of course help but history dictates that things like clinical finishers, good set piece delivery etc have a lot more to do with goals scored than tika taka football.

 

P.S. I'm a supporter of Rodgers.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

As he already described, his idea isn't to keep possession in your own half. Code's total lack of understanding of what Rodgers is trying to do is fairly evident when he posts this shit.

[zigackly]

[GJM]

The general statistics out there on the correlation between possession and goals scored state that the former has fuck all to do with the latter. It can of course help but history dictates that things like clinical finishers, good set piece delivery etc have a lot more to do with goals scored than tika taka football.

 

P.S. I'm a supporter of Rodgers.

 

Agree completely that possession alone doesn’t = goals scored. You need to be effective with the ball when you have it. We are not much different this season to last on that.

[Guest ShoePiss]

After having played 11 games last season, we had an average of 55.9% of possession. After 11 games this season, we have an average of 57.4% possession.

 

In terms of minutes with the ball, this means that we’ve had the ball roughly 15minutes longer so far this season than we had at the same point last season.

 

We have, however, scored exactly the same number of goals after 11 games this season as we had last – 14.

 

Combining time with the ball and goals scored, we can see that last season we were scoring a goal every 39 minutes in possession. This season we need a little longer with the ball to score, but not very much – a little over 40 minutes per goal. So, however ineffective we may be perceived to be with the ball this season, we were not doing very much better at the same point in 2011.

 

Where there is a big difference, however, is goals conceded. Last season, after 11 games, opposition teams were scoring 1 goal against us every 43 minutes that they had possession. This season, they only need the ball 26 minutes to score a goal.

 

The difference this season is much less our ability to score goals when we have the ball, and much more our ability to stop the opposition scoring when they win it back.

 

There's no way I'd check to see if all of that is correct but to cut a long story short; we had trouble scoring goals last year, we still do (surprise) and we're now conceding more goals.

[fin-bat]

Agree completely that possession alone doesn’t = goals scored. You need to be effective with the ball when you have it. We are not much different this season to last on that.

 

This season we haven´t had as many clear cut chances as last season, I would assume...

[zigackly]

I think what worries me most about Rodgers is what will happen when the new manager effect wears off and we stagnate.

[GJM]

There's no way I'd check to see if all of that is correct but to cut a long story short; we had trouble scoring goals last year, we still do (surprise) and we're now conceding more goals.

 

Correct.

[Anny Road]

Is this last year when we had Caroll, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt and Suarez that your on about? This year we have erm?

[Guest ShoePiss]

Correct.

 

Yeah! But it doesn't take getting into mental masturbation with code to work that out mate, just look at goals scored and conceded within the same time frame haha.

 

Anyway as soon as I saw the fixture list I knew he'd be under incredible pressure and there'd be whispers of discontent within the support. We've been unlucky in some games as we had last year, I think we just have to hope the way Rodgers wants us playing starts to click and becomes effective, I really have my doubts that it is a system that can produce a team better than the sum of its parts though.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Is this last year when we had Caroll, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt and Suarez that your on about? This year we have erm?

 

That is all understood.

[Code]

After having played 11 games last season, we had an average of 55.9% of possession. After 11 games this season, we have an average of 57.4% possession.

 

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I am not sure if you are arguing with me or not, but I agree with everything you say.

 

Let me also add that we created more big chances last season and the reason we are conceding so many goals is down to the fact we are trying to keep posession in our own half a bit too much and when we fail our opposition is inside our box in seconds.

[Josef Svejk]

I think what worries me most about Rodgers is what will happen when the new manager effect wears off and we stagnate.

 

Stagnate? Jesus, you mean we're not going to keep hitting new heights?

[zigackly]

Stagnate? Jesus, you mean we're not going to keep hitting new heights?

 

Every time a club gets a new manager they do eally well at first and then tail off a bit. I am presuming we're still inn the honeymoon period at the moment.

[Josef Svejk]

I believe we're capable of maintaining our current form. I really do.

[KopOut]

Hopefully BR will have the luxury of not seeing his star player get an eight match ban. During the eight match ban last year, there were 24 points up for grabs-not sure how many we secured without Suarez, but it cost us dearly. BR's team should get a more 'rounded' season.

[Original202]

Hopefully BR will have the luxury of not seeing his star player get an eight match ban. During the eight match ban last year, there were 24 points up for grabs-not sure how many we secured without Suarez, but it cost us dearly. BR's team should get a more 'rounded' season.

 

He didn't miss 8 league games as we had 4 cup games in January last year, but:

 

Man City A 0-3

Stoke H 0-0

Bolton A 1-3

Wolves A 3-0

 

4 points from every 12 on offer was pretty much how we fared with him in the team post Christmas too, mind.

[Glock21]

Jesus.

 

I am not a BR fan and didn't want him at the club. I don't think he has the experience to get us to where we want to be.

 

But.

 

He is the manager, he needs time and he needs backing in the transfer market. Most of all he needs the backing from the players and supporters. The players seem to be behind him but some on here seem to be putting support of their own opinions ahead of support of the club.

 

There have been times this season when we have looked good and others were we haven't. Whatever individuals think we must give him the time otherwise we will be back to the start of the cycle with a new manager trying to fix things that aren't broken and building his "own" team. We will be constantly in a period of "transition" but never getting to the promised land.

 

We are only a handful of points away from the fourth CL spot and no-one else is setting the world alight so with a couple of decent additions to the squad who knows what the second half of the season may bring, however unlikely that seems today.

 

Whatever you think of him - get behind him and give him a chance.

 

Carbon copy of the statement towards the end of Benitez's, Hodgson and Kenny's era. Exactly fucking same. Get behind the manager, the players seems to be behind the manager blah blah blah fucking blah...

 

Majority of the fools here support mediocrity and its no surprise you lot are on relax mode...so no pressure for BR. So he can continue to take us down to the relegation zone. And then you fucking clown will cry and beg him to get sacked, by then its all over and too late.

 

As a COO of a company, i know what i'm talking about. Act now and act fast. FSG has to act, spending money on new players in January for BR is not going to change anything. Christmas period is critical. Sack BR and spend the money for players on a good world class manager.

[GJM]

I am not sure if you are arguing with me or not, but I agree with everything you say.

 

Let me also add that we created more big chances last season and the reason we are conceding so many goals is down to the fact we are trying to keep posession in our own half a bit too much and when we fail our opposition is inside our box in seconds.

 

Not trying to argue with anybody really. Just wanted to contribute to what I think is an interesting discussion about our performances this year. I was a bit surprised surprised to see that our use of the ball this year was about the same as last - I had thought that our 'minutes in posession per goal' figures would have been quite a bit worse this year than last, but they are not. Suggesting that the posession that we have is not being used less effectively than it was last year.

 

Your explanation for why the defensive side of our game is so poor this year is certainly one possible explanation, and one that could be looked.

 

My personal view is that it is less the posession we concede deep in our half that is the problem, but the positioning of our players when we concede it higher up the pitch. That combined with shite marking from set pieces and some poor goalkeeping.

[dirk grout]

Carbon copy of the statement towards the end of Benitez's, Hodgson and Kenny's era. Exactly fucking same. Get behind the manager, the players seems to be behind the manager blah blah blah fucking blah...

 

Majority of the fools here support mediocrity and its no surprise you lot are on relax mode...so no pressure for BR. So he can continue to take us down to the relegation zone. And then you fucking clown will cry and beg him to get sacked, by then its all over and too late.

 

As a COO of a company, i know what i'm talking about. Act now and act fast. FSG has to act, spending money on new players in January for BR is not going to change anything. Christmas period is critical. Sack BR and spend the money for players on a good world class manager.

 

No you don't.

[Jose Jones]

Not trying to argue with anybody really. Just wanted to contribute to what I think is an interesting discussion about our performances this year. I was a bit surprised surprised to see that our use of the ball this year was about the same as last - I had thought that our 'minutes in posession per goal' figures would have been quite a bit worse this year than last, but they are not. Suggesting that the posession that we have is not being used less effectively than it was last year.

 

Your explanation for why the defensive side of our game is so poor this year is certainly one possible explanation, and one that could be looked.

 

My personal view is that it is less the posession we concede deep in our half that is the problem, but the positioning of our players when we concede it higher up the pitch. That combined with shite marking from set pieces and some poor goalkeeping.

 

The lack of pressing of the ball has been one of my biggest puzzlements this season, because it should be fairly easy to implement. We haven't sorted out what to do when we don't have it, and we are caught between two stools of the whole team pressuring the opposition to get the ball back and dropping to cover the defence.

So we've had occasions with the midfield pushing on and the defence dropping which has left gaps for opposition midfielders to saunter through. We need to sort out our structure. Hopefully it improves with more familiarity.

[The Woolster]

After having played 11 games last season, we had an average of 55.9% of possession. After 11 games this season, we have an average of 57.4% possession.

 

In terms of minutes with the ball, this means that we’ve had the ball roughly 15minutes longer so far this season than we had at the same point last season.

 

We have, however, scored exactly the same number of goals after 11 games this season as we had last – 14.

 

Combining time with the ball and goals scored, we can see that last season we were scoring a goal every 39 minutes in possession. This season we need a little longer with the ball to score, but not very much – a little over 40 minutes per goal. So, however ineffective we may be perceived to be with the ball this season, we were not doing very much better at the same point in 2011.

 

Where there is a big difference, however, is goals conceded. Last season, after 11 games, opposition teams were scoring 1 goal against us every 43 minutes that they had possession. This season, they only need the ball 26 minutes to score a goal.

 

The difference this season is much less our ability to score goals when we have the ball, and much more our ability to stop the opposition scoring when they win it back.

 

Pretty good analysis, but as I said further up, if the possession stats are sourced from Opta, and they nearly all are, then they are not based on time but based on % of passes in a game. I know cos I've made the same mistake myself in the past.

 

The issue with goals conceded is we are making a lot more individual errors that are leading to goals than last season. This could be due to playing a different system which is affecting the players decision process, or it could just be bad luck that they are happening so frequently (like hitting the post last season), it could be we just have bad players who are prone to making mistakes, or it could be a mix of all 3.

 

Opta have a couple of stats tracking errors; errors that lead to shots and errors that lead to goals. Obviously its subjective, but they have us as having 7 errors that lead to shots and 9 errors that lead to goals in the whole of last season, this season we are already at 7 for both of them.

 

We cut out those mistakes, and we'll be converting losses into draws and draws into wins.

[The Woolster]

The lack of pressing of the ball has been one of my biggest puzzlements this season, because it should be fairly easy to implement. We haven't sorted out what to do when we don't have it, and we are caught between two stools of the whole team pressuring the opposition to get the ball back and dropping to cover the defence.

So we've had occasions with the midfield pushing on and the defence dropping which has left gaps for opposition midfielders to saunter through. We need to sort out our structure. Hopefully it improves with more familiarity.

 

Not sure if I agree with the first part, I think we are definitely pressing higher up the pitch and winning the ball back more in the midfield third this season, I wouldn't be surprised if we are winning the ball abck more often than last season as well. I've mentioned this on the MF, but Allen has been instrumental in this.

 

I think the way Rodgers has his teams pressing is to press zonally, or when there are certain triggers which signal when to press, I guess this could make it look like there is a bit of disconnect and is also something that will improve over time with practice.

 

We are leaving too big a gap between defence and midfield though, or between the defenders themselves (which might be why we are trying 3 at the back), however having Lucas back should hopefully make a massive difference.