"The Truth" petition

[xerxes]

Is this not a distraction? A sideshow to the main event?

 

A tabloid newspaper for a few days after the tragedy misleadingly implied a crowd misbegaviour tragedy, rather than a crowd management tragedy, a view which had little currency post Taylor.There is a danger that we magnify something which in the grand scheme of things has little importance.

 

Like most, I await with interest the disclosure of all relevant documents relating to the tragedy. I always worry when people talk of "the truth" and am reminded of Bevan's wise words on it.

 

"The truth" in this instance is too often used as a cypher for blame. The context has been known for two decades, the relevant questions rarely asked.

 

Why was crowd behaviour allowed to deteriorate to such an extent for twenty years to the point where , frankly, no-one cared about football fans? The FA and the League are in the dock. At what point did caging thousands of people, with no formal count for capacity and inadequate exit provision become acceptable? The Licensing authorities, the Local Authorities and League are in the frame for that. Why did the fans not call a halt to behaviour which was killing the game? (Nicky Allt's "The Boys From the Mersey" and Andy Nicholls "Scally" give an accurate insight into what it was like back then - and it wasn't pretty).What were the credentials of those who decided that Liverpool, the biggest Club, should be put in the smallest part of the ground? The FA are in the frame. Why were stewarding and signage so pathetic for a major event? The FA, Licensing and Local Authorities and Sheff Wed are in the frame. Given the serial incompetence that pretty much all the authorities were showing at that time why did the Government not call time on this shower?

[robslappa]

Is this not a distraction? A sideshow to the main event?

 

A tabloid newspaper for a few days after the tragedy misleadingly implied a crowd misbegaviour tragedy, rather than a crowd management tragedy, a view which had little currency post Taylor.There is a danger that we magnify something which in the grand scheme of things has little importance.

 

Like most, I await with interest the disclosure of all relevant documents relating to the tragedy. I always worry when people talk of "the truth" and am reminded of Bevan's wise words on it.

 

"The truth" in this instance is too often used as a cypher for blame. The context has been known for two decades, the relevant questions rarely asked.

 

Why was crowd behaviour allowed to deteriorate to such an extent for twenty years to the point where , frankly, no-one cared about football fans? The FA and the League are in the dock. At what point did caging thousands of people, with no formal count for capacity and inadequate exit provision become acceptable? The Licensing authorities, the Local Authorities and League are in the frame for that. Why did the fans not call a halt to behaviour which was killing the game? (Nicky Allt's "The Boys From the Mersey" and Andy Nicholls "Scally" give an accurate insight into what it was like back then - and it wasn't pretty).What were the credentials of those who decided that Liverpool, the biggest Club, should be put in the smallest part of the ground? The FA are in the frame. Why were stewarding and signage so pathetic for a major event? The FA, Licensing and Local Authorities and Sheff Wed are in the frame. Given the serial incompetence that pretty much all the authorities were showing at that time why did the Government not call time on this shower?

 

I think you're missing the point. Everyone is aware of the root causes of the disaster and how they contributed to what happened at Hillsborough.

 

The search for justice is about uncovering the lies and deceit following the start of the disaster and how those directly responsible tried to cover their tracks and deflect the blame from themselves on to supporters. A fundamental part of that cover up is who briefed the press, leading to the S*n's headline 'The Truth'. Finding out who that person will go a long way to revealing exactly what happened that day.

[lifetime fan]

Apparently in today's rag they are claiming Gerrard has given them an interview.

 

EDIT: I should say I know he hasn't, it's a common trick for these cunts.

[Ginny]

Is there any possibility that the somethin similar could happen to The S*N that happened to The News Of the World if something comes of this? Am sick and tired of that rag printing shit day in day out

[xerxes]

I think you're missing the point. Everyone is aware of the root causes of the disaster and how they contributed to what happened at Hillsborough.

 

The search for justice is about uncovering the lies and deceit following the start of the disaster and how those directly responsible tried to cover their tracks and deflect the blame from themselves on to supporters. A fundamental part of that cover up is who briefed the press, leading to the S*n's headline 'The Truth'. Finding out who that person will go a long way to revealing exactly what happened that day.

 

Fair comment.

 

I agree that how the initial stories broke is relevant.Did the Police brief the Sun? Did they lie? If so, why? Or was it vox pops from the ground, unverified?Or did the Sun simply make it up? Or was there eye witness evidence? I don't know.

 

My interest in this is twofold, I was on the Upper tier that day, and my best friend was an Echo reporter then.

 

I think it may be a mistake to say that anyone was directly responsible ( as is often the nature of disasters) for what happened that day. But I agree that anyone who subsequently deliberately tried to mislead, disguise, or pervert what happened should be held to account.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Done and spread, 15k now

[JaseFace]

The unnamed Tory MP was the Right hon member for Finchley, obviously. Thatcher owed the police big time for the miners strike, as did Murdoch for Wapping. A rather disgusting quid pro quo seems quite likely, does it not?

 

The Sun was always the mouthpiece of conservative propaganda back in the day - see 'Gotcha!' and other bullshit like that.

[Moe Town]

Fair comment.

 

I agree that how the initial stories broke is relevant.Did the Police brief the Sun? Did they lie? If so, why? Or was it vox pops from the ground, unverified?Or did the Sun simply make it up? Or was there eye witness evidence? I don't know.My interest in this is twofold, I was on the Upper tier that day, and my best friend was an Echo reporter then.

 

I think it may be a mistake to say that anyone was directly responsible ( as is often the nature of disasters) for what happened that day. But I agree that anyone who subsequently deliberately tried to mislead, disguise, or pervert what happened should be held to account.

 

Kelvin Mackenzie has said that he was given this information from a leading Tory MP at the time (Irvine Patnick) and once the Superintendent verified it he ran with the story in his Newspaper, I believe Mackenzie may even be quoted as saying this.

 

Mackenzie was torn between two headlines;

 

1. "You Scum"

2. The Truth.

 

The whole "The Truth" article was manufactured to deflect the incomptence from the authorities responsible and it is widely believed that someone in Government at the time gave the green light to give the press this story.

[xerxes]

Kelvin Mackenzie has said that he was given this information from a leading Tory MP at the time (Irvine Patnick) and once the Superintendent verified it he ran with the story in his Newspaper, I believe Mackenzie may even be quoted as saying this.

 

Mackenzie was torn between two headlines;

 

1. "You Scum"

2. The Truth.

 

The whole "The Truth" article was manufactured to deflect the incomptence from the authorities responsible and it is widely believed that someone in Government at the time gave the green light to give the press this story.

Thank you for that.

 

The suggestion in your first para certainly stacks.

 

My view is that the conspiracy theories as hinted at in your final para go too far. I think that the hooliganism angle was predominantly born out of a combination of the confusion that frequently clouds disasters at the beginning, a reasonable (but erroneous) assumption that hooliganism was to blame, and some (mistaken and unnecessary) arse-covering.

 

For me a further Hillsborough paradox is that a significant sector of opinion disproportionately blames the Police, unreasonably in my view, but that far more significant culprits ( Sheff Wed/The FA/The League/Licensing Authorities/Local Authorities to name but a few) are happy to put the Police in the frame to take themselves out of the firing line.

 

I don’t believe that there was any need to get a Government authorisation to run the story, terrace mayhem was standard fare for most Monday newspapers anyway. It looked like an open and shut case, until it became apparent that it wasn’t.

[JaseFace]

Unless, of course, the Police knew at the time they had blundered...

[halewood pete]

ive signed, 17464 signatures as at 1528hrs.

[sybian]

Signed.

[Guest davelfc]

Signed

[xerxes]

Kelvin Mackenzie has said that he was given this information from a leading Tory MP at the time (Irvine Patnick) and once the Superintendent verified it he ran with the story in his Newspaper, I believe Mackenzie may even be quoted as saying this.

 

Subsequent to my previous reply MT I read an excellent full page piece in The Times by Mathew Syed which reminded me of two points.

 

That it was Duckenfield who had ordered that the gate be opened ( fair enough) but then claimed that the gate had been forced ( an absurd lie).

 

He also named Thatcher's CPS Bernard Ingham as the man happy to injudiciously and erroneously misrepresent events to several newspapers, The Mirror, Mail, Express and Yorkshire Post, amongst others, including The Sun.

[kop77]

day 3, 7-30pm, 24,305

[Stouffer]

Sorted

[Moe Town]

Xerxes, do you still feel this particular e-petition is a "distraction" or a "sideshow to the main event". The whole cover up and general opinion from the un-educated wider football community was born from this particular article.

 

Do you think Bernard Ingham volountarily fed the media this bullsh*t or do you think he was told to by his superiors?

[captainharris]

Signed - 26,911

[Tj hooker]

Signed its 30.000 plus now

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

31,500 now