Police - we don't investigate every crime

[Section_31]

Superb, not only are we living in a country that hopes to keep people out of jail because it costs too much money to lock them up, the plod are now seemingly allowed to bin crimes they don't like the looks of.

 

Elephant in the room this really though as it's been going on for years, whether they admit it or not. We got a letter after someone stole the lead off our work roof a while back which literally said 'we are no longer investigating this crime'. They'd never been to the office though, never asked us if we had cameras or came to dust for prints - the crime was just 'logged'.

 

The danger here is what is 'unsolvable'? The example they use is when someone has had their bike nicked but there's no CCTV. Why does that make it unsolvable? Or did Robert Peel take the same approach? Also, if these crimes are screened out, does that mean the true picture of how much crime is in your area is recorded? Or do they only record the ones they like the looks of?

 

We don’t try to solve every crime, admits top police officer - Manchester Evening News

 

A top cop has admitted that thousands of crimes reported to the police are ‘unsolvable’ and never investigated. Deputy Chief Constable Simon Byrne has revealed that officers have been told to concentrate on cases they can solve and leave the others.

 

Mr Byrne said: "Policing isn’t like The Bill or CSI New York. The police will never solve every crime. Sometimes there aren’t enough clues to determine who’s done it. This reduces wasted effort and a paper-chase to see if something somehow falls out of the ether in the next two or three weeks."

 

He used the example of a stolen bike where the owner has not seen the thief and there was no CCTV.

 

Mr Byrne said: "Let’s not pretend we are going to solve it. We’ll record the crime and inform the victim.

 

"Instead we put people on to crimes we have a chance of solving." The new approach is part of a ‘modernisation’ pilot scheme – called Operation Quest – which has been running in Tameside, Bury, Oldham and Rochdale.

 

An assessment is made of each crime and when no evidence is apparent the case is shelved. Officers then concentrate on crimes which they believe they have a better chance of solving.

 

GMP says the policy has helped it cut the average time it takes to investigate the remaining crimes from 54 days to less than two weeks. Force bosses stress no serious cases are being dropped – they are so-called ‘petty’ crimes like criminal damage and theft.

 

It means HALF of all reports of crime are ‘screened out’, although this includes a significant number which are dealt with via cautions or fixed penalties. Force bosses say they don’t know exactly how many ‘unsolvable’ crimes – where no one has been cautioned or fined – are being shelved but they concede it is in the thousands.

 

The pilot scheme will be extended across the whole force later in the year.

[Charles Penrose]

That's been the case since I joined in 2003. I do it myself. I attend a job, assess the available evidence and do the initial routine enquiries. If it's glaringly obvious that there is no evidence then I certainly won't spend hours and hours on it if it's low level and clear from day one that loads and loads of enquiries are fruitless.

 

Let's be honest here, if every crime was investigated to the nth degree then we'd have a Police budget a few hundred to a few thousand times what it is now. I'm not sure what you're expecting, a similar number of enquiries for a stolen bike as a murder enquiry?

 

I typically carry ten to twenty investigations at any one time. I'm one of an average of eight officer's Policing a City of 100,000. As well as investigating these crimes I'm attending the bulk of the Grade 1 response jobs, three or four other reported crimes daily, attending and investigating road traffic collisions, looking for missing persons and maintaining a visible presence.

 

Officer's aren't just fucking things off because they can't be arsed.

 

I'm afraid this is just a cold dose of reality. Each and every one of you, in my role, would be doing exactly the same. It's about doing the best with what you've got.

[WaltonRed]

Fucking joke.

 

Going to the dogs, and not one person in power gives a flying fuck.

 

If you get the chance to leave the country i'd take it.

 

Chris, I see where your coming from but did the criminals of Britain need to know this?

 

They already know they can commit several crimes and not be punished!

[Nomad]

the example they have used about the bike, you need to look at it in a different way.

 

if a bike is nicked with no CCTV no witness etc, what are the police supposed to do?

 

What will happen is that if the bike is insured or they have the serial number then a crime log can be made once reported to police and if that bike is ever found then it will be returned to the rightful owner.

 

Police cant win.

 

You have people like you complaining about the smallst of crimes and them not investigateing.

Then on the other hand the people who use the famous quote 'Go and solve some real crime'

 

What do you expect them to do Section.

[Charles Penrose]

Let's take the stolen bike example.

 

I attend an address where a garage has been prised open, with a bike removed from inside. It took place overnight. I speak with its owner, who can simply tell me it's gone. I knock each and every neighbours door, and no-one heard anything. I call forensics, and there are no fingerprints left behind. The local newspaper doesn't want to feature the bike in the paper as it's not juicy enough, and all the local Pawn Shops say they haven't see it but will let me know if something comes in. Neither is there any CCTV at the property and the bike isn't postcode marked. I have no named offender, although I probably know of twenty or so small time criminals who steal bikes in this manner.

 

Now other than those enquiries, what do people expect us to do here? This is what we're talking about. I'll crime it, provide the victim with a number for insurance and move on to the next one on the list.

 

The article is misleading from the off. It's saying we don't even try to solve crimes in the headline, but what it's really saying is that we prioritise (rightly) the jobs which are solveable. We put our greatest effort into the ones that will yield a return, because otherwise we'd be unable to solve anything.

 

The Police do not have the resources to throw at low level crime. There is more crime now than ever and our remit is greater than ever. The Police will do what the Police can, and that is being pretty good at solving the more serious offences at the expense of finding out who took your laptop off your car seat which you left it on overnight.

[Section_31]

the example they have used about the bike, you need to look at it in a different way.

 

if a bike is nicked with no CCTV no witness etc, what are the police supposed to do?

 

What will happen is that if the bike is insured or they have the serial number then a crime log can be made once reported to police and if that bike is ever found then it will be returned to the rightful owner.

 

Police cant win.

 

You have people like you complaining about the smallst of crimes and them not investigateing.

Then on the other hand the people who use the famous quote 'Go and solve some real crime'

 

What do you expect them to do Section.

 

Well how did it used to work before DNA and CCTV then? Do you know how? Shoe leather and getting to know your patch. A copper walked a beat, knew who all the twats were, and got tip offs from the people who lived in the area.

 

They didn't spend all day in the station or riding around in cars controlled by a call centre 20 miles away, occasionally dipping in and out of an estate when they had dealings with someone and then driving off again for a court date or some bollocks.

 

As far as the bike example is concerned, what's to say knocking on one person's door might not reveal something? Or is it simply not worth the effort? What if it's your bike?

 

When I got jumped a couple of years back I knew they wouldn't try and find those responsible, but what they went to great lengths to say was 'here's your crime number, you should put a claim in'.

 

What pissed me off about that (and it's an attitude I've seen with my sister when she also got jumped) is that it's not simply a case of being pragmatic with limited resources, it's a case of ACCEPTING something as being 'probably' unsolvable rather than at least trying to put some effort in.

Do you not think that's a slippery slope? That we live in a society that accepts crimes can't be tackled and aren't worth even trying to deal with? Do you not think that sends a message to victims and to low-level criminals who, incidentally, are the next batch of high-level criminals?

 

Criminality needs nipping in the bud, you tackle it at the start and it doesn't get worse. Accepting that some crimes aren't worth bothering with is the sign of a finished society IMO.

[WaltonRed]

Where does it stop though Chris?

 

Its bikes now, in the future it'll be mid-level crime.

[WaltonRed]

Great post Section as per

[Antynwa]

I'm not surprised.

 

I got attacked a few years ago by about 3 people and I heard nothing from the Police after they took a statement.

 

I'm not surprised though, the lads who attacked me wore all black and lowies, so I guess that could have been half of Liverpool.

[Section_31]

And Chris, don't be taking this thread as a personal attack on you or the police as such, but on policy. The Government/s and a dysfunctional society bereft of respect for authority are just as much to blame IMO. I'm not one of these people who finds it cool to trash the police, but I do know how fucked up policy is. I've seen it first hand.

[Nomad]

Well how did it used to work before DNA and CCTV then? Do you know how? Shoe leather and getting to know your patch. A copper walked a beat, knew who all the twats were, and got tip offs from the people who lived in the area.

 

Section be realistic mate do you realy think the world is like that anymore.

the young scalls have terrifed people and they wil not talk any more.

 

 

 

 

They didn't spend all day in the station or riding around in cars controlled by a call centre 20 miles away, occasionally dipping in and out of an estate when they had dealings with someone and then driving off again for a court date or some bollocks.

 

Agreed ypu dont see foot patrol like you used to and it is a shame and maybe thats a factor into why scalls can intimidate people as there isnt a massive police presence on rough areas etc

 

As far as the bike example is concerned, what's to say knocking on one person's door might not reveal something? Or is it simply not worth the effort? What if it's your bike?

 

Again i agree, but i side with chris;s point of view more on this, what then?

 

When I got jumped a couple of years back I knew they wouldn't try and find those responsible, but what they went to great lengths to say was 'here's your crime number, you should put a claim in'.

 

What pissed me off about that (and it's an attitude I've seen with my sister when she also got jumped) is that it's not simply a case of being pragmatic with limited resources, it's a case of ACCEPTING something as being 'probably' unsolvable rather than at least trying to put some effort in.

Do you not think that's a slippery slope? That we live in a society that accepts crimes can't be tackled and aren't worth even trying to deal with? Do you not think that sends a message to victims and to low-level criminals who, incidentally, are the next batch of high-level criminals?

 

Criminality needs nipping in the bud, you tackle it at the start and it doesn't get worse. Accepting that some crimes aren't worth bothering with is the sign of a finished society IMO.

 

The problem i think section is the everyday officer has been shown the direction of what they are to do. the only foot patrols you get up this end now are PCSOs with no powers of arrest ect. if PCSOs were replaced with bobbys then you would see a difference and also bobbys who are on their 2 year probation should have to do more foot patrol rather than sit i cars.

 

That way they would get to know your area and people and would deal with things as they come rather than getting called to a job.

[Charles Penrose]

Well how did it used to work before DNA and CCTV then? Do you know how? Shoe leather and getting to know your patch. A copper walked a beat, knew who all the twats were, and got tip offs from the people who lived in the area.

 

They didn't spend all day in the station or riding around in cars controlled by a call centre 20 miles away, occasionally dipping in and out of an estate when they had dealings with someone and then driving off again for a court date or some bollocks.

 

As far as the bike example is concerned, what's to say knocking on one person's door might not reveal something? Or is it simply not worth the effort? What if it's your bike?

 

When I got jumped a couple of years back I knew they wouldn't try and find those responsible, but what they went to great lengths to say was 'here's your crime number, you should put a claim in'.

 

What pissed me off about that (and it's an attitude I've seen with my sister when she also got jumped) is that it's not simply a case of being pragmatic with limited resources, it's a case of ACCEPTING something as being 'probably' unsolvable rather than at least trying to put some effort in.

Do you not think that's a slippery slope? That we live in a society that accepts crimes can't be tackled and aren't worth even trying to deal with? Do you not think that sends a message to victims and to low-level criminals who, incidentally, are the next batch of high-level criminals?

 

Criminality needs nipping in the bud, you tackle it at the start and it doesn't get worse. Accepting that some crimes aren't worth bothering with is the sign of a finished society IMO.

 

Have you considered the fact that people simply don't want to help the Police anymore. If the general public did the right thing and actually gave us information then we'd be in a far stronger position. This used to be a partnership, now most of the British public have an 'us and them' approach.

 

The day of the 'Bobby on the beat' has gone. The demands placed upon us are so great that Officer's simply don't have the time to really get to know a Community and forge the relationships we once had. The introduction of CSO'S is what will be the last great attempt to hold on to that. Sadly it's at the point of no return. The next time I go on duty and spend five hours looking for a Missing person from a Kids home who fucks off thrice a week, or a sectioned mental health patient that was allowed outside to have a fag unsupervised, i'll remind you. It amazes me that I don my uniform and suddenly become responsible for everyone and everything. I spend half my time covering my back because I know that when the shit hits the fan, my fault or not, I need to show I've been whiter than white because I'll get hammered for it.

 

For instance how unfair is it that an Ambulance crew can turn up at someone hacking at his wrists and say 'sign here if you don't want treatment', yet if the same lad tells me to fuck off and then kills himself when I oblige I'm out on my ear?

 

I expected better from you to be honest.

[WaltonRed]

The public hate you because of years of incidents which make them hate the institution that is the police.

[Charles Penrose]

Still, I doubt anyone would swap our Police force for any other in the world.

 

I'm sure you'd rather we had our American, Russian or Italian counterparts.

[Antynwa]

Times like this...

 

[BatChainPuller]

Still, I doubt anyone would swap our Police force for any other in the world.

 

I'm sure you'd rather we had our American, Russian or Italian counterparts.

 

Hmmm, tough call

 

[Guest ShoePiss]

UK Police are far, far better when it comes to interaction in the community, whether that's to apprehend a suspect or just being approachable and helpful to the general public....when compared to USA.

 

Surely the issue here is not one of Policing but of funding, this is a government issue. You can't take man hours away from a rape investigation to look at a kid's bike being stolen.

[Hand Shandy]

Increasing unemployment, benefit cuts, a judicial system which is being told not to send 'petty' criminals to prison and police forces facing a 25 per cent cut to their budgets.

 

The next few years are going to be fun...

[Guest ShoePiss]

Where does it stop though Chris?

 

Its bikes now, in the future it'll be mid-level crime.

 

Spay and neuter the underclass that teach their children to hate the Police from birth.

[Captain]

In our country, the fact that they don't investigate is only half the problem.

 

It's when they invent evidence to put people away trouble really begins. Unfortunately, the fuckers get away with it.

[Charles Penrose]

In our country, the fact that they don't investigate is only half the problem.

 

It's when they invent evidence to put people away trouble really begins. Unfortunately, the fuckers get away with it.

 

Er, you do know the Police service has moved on from those days don't you? I'm not saying there aren't exceptions but following the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence act, this has been on a year upon year decline.

 

The very thought if beating a confession out of someone these days makes me laugh. You get a hot drink and a tummy rub regardless of your crime these days.

[Hand Shandy]

Not 100% on this CP, but I'm pretty sure Captain doesn't live here.

 

Think he might be Scandinavian...

[Section_31]

Captain is a norge.

 

Chris, I completely agree about society not helping the police, and I wouldn't swap our force for any other, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to shovel shit when I smell it.

 

As I said earlier up the thread, it's all part of the same problem laid down by the very foundations of our society. We need, desperately, to get back to a place where authority is respected again - be that parental, teacher, or police.

 

I think accepting, publically, that some crimes basically aren't worth the state's time trying to tackle is - IMO - a fatal, fatal error and another step on the rode to that respect, and dare I say it 'fear', of authority being lost.

 

With regards funding and resources though, genuine question, how much of your working week percentage wise is taken up by avoidable bullshit like admin? And what percentage of your colleagues are fit and capable for the job?

[Johnni]

Well how did it used to work before DNA and CCTV then? Do you know how? Shoe leather and getting to know your patch. A copper walked a beat, knew who all the twats were, and got tip offs from the people who lived in the area.

 

They didn't spend all day in the station or riding around in cars controlled by a call centre 20 miles away, occasionally dipping in and out of an estate when they had dealings with someone and then driving off again for a court date or some bollocks.

 

As far as the bike example is concerned, what's to say knocking on one person's door might not reveal something? Or is it simply not worth the effort? What if it's your bike?

 

 

I was at first with Section on this then siding with Chris on this topic after reading what he said about what happens with a stolen bike but truth be told knowing your area and a copper walking the beat would help ALOT. Where i work we know all the fuckers who come into our shop nicking and where they live, who they hang out with etc so when we see them running out of the shop we can tell the authorities who they are and probably where they are going.

 

At present i think the Police wont have the time to interact with the community as much as they should or walk the area but maybe something needs to be done to tackle this. CSO's was a good idea on paper but most i talked to are thick as pig shit who dont know the local ara that well and don't really want any responsibility so lay it on the police so whats the point of the CSO?

[Johnni]

With regards funding and resources though, genuine question, how much of your working week percentage wise is taken up by avoidable bullshit like admin? And what percentage of your colleagues are fit and capable for the job?

 

 

There are officers out there unfit for the job viewed from my own personnel experience but i don't think that's negative on the personnel in the force really but rather highlights what a hard job it is to be in the police force and that people are being trained when they are really not up for the job yet seem to pass or maybe the training the receive is not adequate for modern Britain.