Has Lucas improved enough to warrant him being a first team regular?

[The Dude Abides]

Lucas was terrible when he got in the team. He managed somehow to be unavailable for a pass most of the time - he could not position himself to save his life. He stifled any momentum we had in possession, and he couldn't tackle. He did not improve appreciably for at least a season, and he was regularly in the team.

 

He is appreciably better this year than he was this time last year, never mind 18 months ago. I'm full of admiration for those who knew he'd be a player for us after watching him in his first 12 months. I was not at all confident that it would be the case. I am happy to see his improvement, and the fact that he's started this season strongly. For me, he was the man of the match this weekend. He's not as great as his biggest admirers think he is, and he's not as poor as his haters think he is. He's developing into a good player, and if he can continue the form we've seen this month for the rest of the season, I'll agree that he has become a very good player.

 

Nah. The team is appreciably better, that's all. Go back and watch the games, Lucas is doing pretty much the same things he's doing now. He was showing for the ball then, but the big difference is that Carra simply wouldn't pass him the ball 18 months ago, he'd hoof it instead.

 

Like i said, he's improving, which is only natural, but this talk of it being a rapid and improbable improvement is complete and utter rubbish. You can't have it both ways. You were simply wrong about him. Get over it and move on.

 

He's not as great as his biggest admirers think he is,

 

All said and done though, I'd still go along with that. For all the talk about our strength in depth at centre-mid, we don't have any really truly outstanding options there, just good ones. Hopefully enough to get us 4th place and take it form there.

Edited August 29, 2011 by The Dude Abides

[stringvest]

Sorry mate, I'm not having that. Lucas was rubbish when he got in the team, and there was definitely a case of people overpraising him just because he wasn't as awful as he was initially. Even last year, you could comfortably count the performances on one hand (very comfortably if you're from St Helens) where you could argue Lucas bossed the midfield, or controlled the tempo of the game. I'm happy to give him all the praise he deserves, but I'm just saying what I see. He's got to perform well all season for me to subscribe to the 'one of the best midfielders in the country' brigade.

[Einch]

Barrett gave him a 9 rating in the Times today. The only one for us which was a surprise as I would have had given Luis 9 myself.

[Red_Scorpio]

I'm very much surprised that some fans still can't see how important it's become to have him in the side.

 

For me he's the most improved player in world football. He thrives in his role, which allows him to have responsibility.

 

Responsibility breeds confidence which in turn shows in the performances like the game against Bolton. The cherry on the cake will be, to produce more of these performances on a more consistent basis.

 

Come to think of it, has he justified his price tag yet? :whistle:

[aRdja]

I fucking love Lucas.

 

I love him in the same way I loved Didi.

 

My DM-love.

 

He plays quite similar to Didi nowadays. He wins a lot of the ball and plays it simple. He covers the fullbacks well, and is always available for a pass.

 

I guess what we haven't seen enough from Lucas is a game where he completely dominated a top side e.g. Didi vs Barca away and Didi in the CL Final..

[Torvald Utne]

I was saying what everyone is now saying back in 2009...but obviously he's unrecognisable from that player isn't he?

[INTORRESTING]

He is going to lift the world cup for Brazil in his home country.

 

He is really improved and worked hard and good on him.

 

We need some back up for him.

[piscinin]

I was saying what everyone is now saying back in 2009...but obviously he's unrecognisable from that player isn't he?

 

Same old, same old.

 

"Lucas used to be shite" is the new "Lucas is shite".

 

No surprise really. It's the same blind-spots that got them on the wrong side of the discussion in the first place.

[Jose Jones]

Lucas was terrible when he got in the team. He managed somehow to be unavailable for a pass most of the time - he could not position himself to save his life. He stifled any momentum we had in possession, and he couldn't tackle. He did not improve appreciably for at least a season, and he was regularly in the team.

 

He is appreciably better this year than he was this time last year, never mind 18 months ago. I'm full of admiration for those who knew he'd be a player for us after watching him in his first 12 months. I was not at all confident that it would be the case. I am happy to see his improvement, and the fact that he's started this season strongly. For me, he was the man of the match this weekend. He's not as great as his biggest admirers think he is, and he's not as poor as his haters think he is. He's developing into a good player, and if he can continue the form we've seen this month for the rest of the season, I'll agree that he has become a very good player.

 

I disagree, he was fine when he first got into the team as he was used sparingly as third or fourth choice behind Alonso, Mascherano and occasionally Gerrard. Because of the quality of the rest of the midfield he didn't need to do too much. He put in some good performances in important games like Inter away and Man U away.

 

It was only two seasons ago that he was quite poor, but then so was the rest of the team. Alonso was sold, Aquilani was Aquilani, Gerrard was injured and Torres was sulking. Lucas didn't have the ability or experience to drag the team up with him, but I doubt too many players would have. He still doesn't have that ability, but he is willing to take on a bit more responsibility and as the team is playing better, he's looked better.

[Iceman]

He was shit when he first came here, not all his fault, but mostly. Has matured and developed into a good/at times excellent player for us and I think he has done enough to be considered for every game, as much as any of our players can now what with the competition for places we now enjoy under Kenny.

 

I am glad that we have him and I respect him for not fucking off because that lad was getting a hard time a couple of seasons back. Enough to make lesser players curl up and hide a la Poulsen.

 

He's top is Lucas, and I respect everyone has their own view but I rate him highly.

[Strontium]

Unfair to state he was shit when he came here. He was never signed as a defensive midfielder. What we bought was an energetic attacking midfielder; a Brazilian Gerrard. He's had to adapt to a new position as well as a new league and new country, and that takes time. And he's still only 24 years old.

[stringvest]

Unfair to state he was shit when he came here. He was never signed as a defensive midfielder. What we bought was an energetic attacking midfielder; a Brazilian Gerrard. He's had to adapt to a new position as well as a new league and new country, and that takes time. And he's still only 24 years old.

 

ok, he was pretty poor at the job he was being asked to do. Now he's a lot better. Them's the facts.

[mossga]

I disagree, he was fine when he first got into the team as he was used sparingly as third or fourth choice behind Alonso, Mascherano and occasionally Gerrard. Because of the quality of the rest of the midfield he didn't need to do too much. He put in some good performances in important games like Inter away and Man U away.

 

It was only two seasons ago that he was quite poor, but then so was the rest of the team. Alonso was sold, Aquilani was Aquilani, Gerrard was injured and Torres was sulking. Lucas didn't have the ability or experience to drag the team up with him, but I doubt too many players would have. He still doesn't have that ability, but he is willing to take on a bit more responsibility and as the team is playing better, he's looked better.

 

I like the way Gerrard being injured[sic] excuses him being fucking bollocks for the last 2 years and an embarrassment to the captain's armband in Rafa's final season.

[sese]

The only real criticisms I have for Lucas, is that he will occasionally dwell on the ball for too long. He also gives away some silly fouls.

 

He makes some nice runs off the ball, and in general his passing is good, even when it's backwards or sideways, at least he is retaining possession for the team. Of course he can still improve, and I for one think he will, he does need to chip in with a couple of goals, but this will come in time.

 

So, for me, it's a yes as things currently stand.

 

Is it just me or is this pretty much out of his game now? He was always doing my head in a year or two ago with silly fouls but this season I can't really remember that many. If any at all.

 

For me, Lucas is one of the best DM in the league. :yes:

[TheResonator]

Sorry mate, I'm not having that. Lucas was rubbish when he got in the team, and there was definitely a case of people overpraising him just because he wasn't as awful as he was initially. Even last year, you could comfortably count the performances on one hand (very comfortably if you're from St Helens) where you could argue Lucas bossed the midfield, or controlled the tempo of the game.

 

You had a shit opinion, it was wrong, don't talk even more rubbish to try and cover it up. Lucas clearly struggled to adapt to the team when he got here -- that much is true. But he massively turned things around starting two years ago, and at the end of that season he was our young player of the season and last season he was our player of the season -- voted for by the fans. It is fair enough acknowledging his shortcomings when he came here, but people like yourself carried it on for far too long and were way too begrudging when it came to giving him, or allowing him to be given, any praise. Trying to argue percentages now is a load of bollocks. You stuck your colours to the mast so at least be man enough to stand by them.

[stringvest]

You had a shit opinion, it was wrong, don't talk even more rubbish to try and cover it up. Lucas clearly struggled to adapt to the team when he got here -- that much is true. But he massively turned things around starting two years ago, and at the end of that season he was our young player of the season and last season he was our player of the season -- voted for by the fans. It is fair enough acknowledging his shortcomings when he came here, but people like yourself carried it on for far too long and were way too begrudging when it came to giving him, or allowing him to be given, any praise. Trying to argue percentages now is a load of bollocks. You stuck your colours to the mast so at least be man enough to stand by them.

 

Am I being told off? Gulp.

 

By the way, I'm still not convinced he's good enough long term.

[ronnie38]

Am I being told off? Gulp.

 

By the way, I'm still not convinced he's good enough long term.

 

That's because your a mong:drool:

[stringvest]

That's because your a mong:drool:

 

stinky bum

[PaulMcC]

He's fucking brilliant.

 

And he was never shit.

[mossga]

Am I being told off? Gulp.

 

By the way, I'm still not convinced he's good enough long term.

 

I'm fully convinced you're not.

[Red Nick]

Adam and Lucas is too slow and will be found out without a third player in there like we had a Arsenal its one of Lucas or Adam with Gerrard or Henderson

[George Costanza]

This point scoring bollocks is utter shite. I couldn't care less is people did not rate him 12-24 months ago. That was their opinion. I prefer to look on the player we have now & for the future & i'm fucking excited. He's a class act as will hopefully get better and better. I honestly believe he could become a monster of a player.

[Jose Jones]

I like the way Gerrard being injured[sic] excuses him being fucking bollocks for the last 2 years and an embarrassment to the captain's armband in Rafa's final season.

 

Where on earth in my post did you get that Gerrard being injured "excused" Lucas?

I'd suggest you read the post again with your brain engaged this time.

[stringvest]

This point scoring bollocks is utter shite. I couldn't care less is people did not rate him 12-24 months ago. That was their opinion. I prefer to look on the player we have now & for the future & i'm fucking excited. He's a class act as will hopefully get better and better. I honestly believe he could become a monster of a player.

 

I agree he's made a great start to the season. If he continues his current form, and his rate of improvement, there's no doubt he will be a key factor in our successful future.

[Scousa Tomo]

I agree he's made a great start to the season. If he continues his current form, and his rate of improvement, there's no doubt he will be a key factor in our successful future.

 

i was saying this 18 months ago