A serious question for this site

[Red Nick]

Are there any posters on this site who believe that Rafa isnt taking this Liverpool team backwards.

 

If you believe Rafa isnt taking Liverpool FC backwards please post your reasons here.

[TheBitch]

Nick, I like you. You're mad as a box of frogs. But, hasn't this been done?

 

Edit: Incidentally I think we've gone backwards.

[House of Dirk]

For fucks sake.

[Heinze]

bring back rashid.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Are there any posters on this site who believe that Rafa isnt taking this Liverpool team backwards.

 

If you believe Rafa isnt taking Liverpool FC backwards please post your reasons here.

There are probably plenty of reasons, buried amongst the million shit-slinging threads already posted.

 

Quite simply - it's up to you to demonstrate that the manager who came within a bug's dick of winning the title last season is "taking the team backwards" (whatever that means).

 

One disappointing third of a season does not a shit manager make.

[zigackly]

One disappointing third of a season does not a shit manager make.

 

The word shit is too readily flung about sometimes, but it is a fact that this manager has a disappointing third of every season.

[Red Nick]

Why such petty childish responses to a very simple straight forward question.

 

There are plenty of Rafa supporters on here and I dont think its unreasonable to ask them if they think Rafa has taken the team backward and if they believe he hasnt what there reason are for that.

 

I presume some will always support the manager even if we were in the relegation zone and this isnt an issue for them but obviously there must be some who dont feel he has taken the team backwards and I am seriously interested in there reasons without getting into personal abuse.

 

A very simple question, if you dont want to answer it please use another thread.

[Karl_b]

It's a difficult question to answer yes or no to.

 

If we compare this season to last then so far yes, we've gone backwards. We've never replaced Keane, leaving us short of attacking options and we sold one of the finest midfielders in Europe and replaced him with someone that had a long term injury, meaning both the midfield and attack are currently in a poorer position than 12 months ago. The defence, on paper, looks better with the addition of Johnson but the loss of Sami is huge and his absence is, in my opinion, a big reason for why we've been so poor at the back. Replacing the likes of Riise, Hyypia, Bellamy and Crouch with some of the crap we have is another case against the manager, regardless of the circumstances in which those players left.

 

To be honest that doesn't sound too impressive and is probably a huge case for why we've gone backwards, but the other side of the argument is to compare the club now with when Benitez took over. We're once again a massive force and widely respected in Europe (or we were until this season), we've had a couple of hugely successful league campaigns and we've played some fantastic football, picking up some famous victories along the way. Despite the owners it seems to me there have been positive changes to the club, particularly now that Rafa has complete control of the Academy. A fully integrated youth setup is definitely something which will take the club forward and have long term rewards.

 

Inevitably Liverpool Football Club is judged on results, currently they're very poor and certainly this is as bad a period as we've had with Rafa in charge. Things can change very quickly however and I have no doubt that if we persist with the current manager then come the end of the season we'll be playing great football and winning plenty of games (my instinct is we'll actually win a trophy this season) and we'll no doubt be having the same discussions we had at the end of last season. We'll be sure that with a couple of top quality additions we'll challenge for the title only to be devastated come November when we've had our usual terrible run of form.

 

So, is Rafa taking this 'Liverpool team' backwards? Compared to last season, yes. Is he taking 'Liverpool FC' backwards? That's trickier to answer.

[Funkasy]

to many first team starters that get injured at the same time has played a huge role this season, other then that i cant find words to why we play so bad as we do.

[Hooch]

Get Mourinho in.

[Red Mist]

We have gone so far backwards that we are now firmly in the Houllier era. Fucking time-travelling fat Spaniard has fucked it all up.

[House of Dirk]

Why such petty childish responses to a very simple straight forward question.

 

There are plenty of Rafa supporters on here and I dont think its unreasonable to ask them if they think Rafa has taken the team backward and if they believe he hasnt what there reason are for that.

 

I presume some will always support the manager even if we were in the relegation zone and this isnt an issue for them but obviously there must be some who dont feel he has taken the team backwards and I am seriously interested in there reasons without getting into personal abuse.

 

A very simple question, if you dont want to answer it please use another thread.

 

Done to death and it will end up with the same poeple slinging the same old pieces of muck. You knew that as you posted this.

[Captain]

Get Mourinho in.

 

Of all the desperate suggestions I read on here, I think this one has to be the craziest. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can think Mourinho would work well with our owners.

[The Chief]

I'd like to hear his reasons for bringing on a player who hasn't played since the close season, and yet he STILL insists on not playing Aquilani "till he's match fit"??? I heard someone say "yeah but Blackburn are a team of cloggers" FFS he's just come from a league where they kick the shit out of anything that moves.

 

We are becoming what we were in the last year of Houlliers reign, boring and unadventurous, in other words fucking shit to watch. We have become a team that no one is worried about playing, we HAVE gone backwards, we are 14 points behind what we were last season, that tells it's own story.

[Red Nick]

It's a difficult question to answer yes or no to.

 

If we compare this season to last then so far yes, we've gone backwards. We've never replaced Keane, leaving us short of attacking options and we sold one of the finest midfielders in Europe and replaced him with someone that had a long term injury, meaning both the midfield and attack are currently in a poorer position than 12 months ago. The defence, on paper, looks better with the addition of Johnson but the loss of Sami is huge and his absence is, in my opinion, a big reason for why we've been so poor at the back. Replacing the likes of Riise, Hyypia, Bellamy and Crouch with some of the crap we have is another case against the manager, regardless of the circumstances in which those players left.

 

To be honest that doesn't sound too impressive and is probably a huge case for why we've gone backwards, but the other side of the argument is to compare the club now with when Benitez took over. We're once again a massive force and widely respected in Europe (or we were until this season), we've had a couple of hugely successful league campaigns and we've played some fantastic football, picking up some famous victories along the way. Despite the owners it seems to me there have been positive changes to the club, particularly now that Rafa has complete control of the Academy. A fully integrated youth setup is definitely something which will take the club forward and have long term rewards.

 

Inevitably Liverpool Football Club is judged on results, currently they're very poor and certainly this is as bad a period as we've had with Rafa in charge. Things can change very quickly however and I have no doubt that if we persist with the current manager then come the end of the season we'll be playing great football and winning plenty of games (my instinct is we'll actually win a trophy this season) and we'll no doubt be having the same discussions we had at the end of last season. We'll be sure that with a couple of top quality additions we'll challenge for the title only to be devastated come November when we've had our usual terrible run of form.

 

So, is Rafa taking this 'Liverpool team' backwards? Compared to last season, yes. Is he taking 'Liverpool FC' backwards? That's trickier to answer.

 

A very good post even if there are parts I dont agree with, Personally I cant see him every getting this team back but thanks for posting a considered response to the question posed

[tobycatz]

bring back rashid.

 

Fuck that bring back the Redhorse,now that was some crazy shit going on right there.

[Red Nick]

Rather than making a new thread I`sll make another point on thie one and an important one on here.

 

Lets go back to when Houllier like Rafa lost is players and we finished 5th outside of the CL places and we gave Houllier an extra season(still a bad decision) and the following season we scraped into the CL places (only because Newcastle had a worse season than us) and then sacked the manager. We shouldnt make that mistake again because the reality is next season is going to be a lot tougher to qualify for the CL than it was in Houllier's last season and to let a manager who no longer has the full support of his players carry one for another season like a wounded animal would be terrible IMO. The reality is however that he will be the manager next season (if he wants the job) if we finish in the top 4 and that is another debate entirely.

[Funkasy]

and when did he lose the players support ? after most of the stars said they supported him, or before that ?

 

im pretty sure you have been saying that for about 2 years now.

[Red Phoenix]

Aw fuck it, I'll bite.

 

I don't think he is taking Liverpool FC backwards, because we can't go much further back anymore really. I'm saying this because I think Rafa now realises that he's in the shit big time with the fans, (I said they'd roll out the "Aquilani ready to play" stuff over the week, but Rafa did it straight after the game apparently, so I'm sure he knows he's in big shit here.) and when his back is up against the wall I think he'll try and work out what's pissing the fans off so much, have a good look at the situation and then try a lot harder to get it sorted out, because he loves the club.

 

If we didn't have Aquilani I'd not be writing this, but I think he's going to give us exactly what we need in the center of midfield + creatively further forward. Then he's going to get some results before christmas and things will have settled down a bit.

 

Then, knowing how seriously close he came to completely fucking everything up, he'll start using his head a lot more when it comes to transfer windows. Players like Babel, Voronin, etc, he won't fuck around with them anymore and they'll be off, and he'll start concentrating a lot more on getting effective attacking players brought into the side. N'gog wasn't on the pitch yesterday and we had Kuyt up there and it clearly wasn't good enough, and he must realise that attacking players have to be brought in now.

 

So as for now, he's fucked up big time, but I think he'll learn from it because of the sheer amount of Liverpool fans he's really angered.

 

So nope, I don't think Rafa's perfect, and yep, I think he's made a huge mess recently, but I think he'll learn from it and sort things out. I'm basically holding out until january before I throw my toys out the pram, because I have a feeling he'll sort things out this time as he knows this is probably his last chance.

 

What happens now then? Do a mob of you line me up and shoot me? Or is it me getting tied to a stake while atk fetches the petrol? I'm just trying to hold onto my last bit of patience and hope, as I think there's a chance it'll be worth it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Why such petty childish responses to a very simple straight forward question.

I just think it's a silly - and absurdly loaded - question.

 

Rafa is not taking the team backwards... because he just isn't. There's no evidence that he is, so why even ask the question?

 

We all knew that this season was going to be more difficult than last. Xabi was one of our key players last season and he was determined to leave. (And before anyone leaps on this - yes, I am aware that Rafa was not completely blameless in Xabi's departure.) We also knew that there are key areas in the squad where the back-up players are not really good enough. (Again, you can argue that Rafa should have addressed this earlier: but you can also argue that he hasn't had either the backing of the owners or the required quality from the Academy.) We also knew that it was a gamble signing Aquilani when he was injured, but that's the type of gamble we are forced into, because of our finances. (I would also guess that Aurelio would be out of our price range if his fitness was more reliable.)

 

What we didn't know was that a succession of injuries in our back four would result in a total lack of stability. Or that Mascherano's form would dip (because of World Cup worries or dreams of Barcelona? Who knows?) Or that Aqulani's recovery would take so long. Or that Babel would refuse to pull his finger out. Or that Torres and Gerrard would both have serious fitness troubles. Shit happens.

 

What really makes your question a false one is the very notion of a team simply going forward or going backward. Last season was a good one. This season, so far, has been a bad one - partly due to some management decisions, partly due to shite luck. There is no reason to assume that the trajectory we've been on since September is the one we will remain on under this manager.

[zigackly]

I think a diagram is called for. It's not to scale, or too serious.

 

Mine would be more like this:

 

.....BEFORE BILL
...................................BILL
...................................BOB
...................................JOE
...................................KENNY
.........GRAEME
.............ROY
............GERARD
..............RAFA-2005
................RAFA-2006
...............RAFA-2007
................RAFA-2008
..................RAFA-2009
..............RAFA-2010 SO FAR

[dennis tooth]

Are there any posters on this site who believe that Rafa isnt taking this Liverpool team backwards.

 

If you believe Rafa isnt taking Liverpool FC backwards please post your reasons here.

 

One reason Nick.

 

The Youth set up which is going to provide a number of players for the next ten years. Look at the progress made on that level, what is it now 3 FAY cup finals in 3 years?

[Hooch]

Of all the desperate suggestions I read on here, I think this one has to be the craziest. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can think Mourinho would work well with our owners.

 

Yeah cos Benitez works well with them. He doesn't have to get on with the owners really, he could come in and do a job for us though. I think he'd bring us the title, regardless of budget or net spend or whatever else. Theres no way those players believe in Benitez anymore.

[Captain]

I think he'd bring us the title, regardless of budget or net spend or whatever else.

 

Well, I don't.

[bossy]

I still think he is a good manager and short term results mean little. He,to me, has proved he can win. At the moment he is under attack from all sides including those who sing YNWA and it's all getting nervy. He has made lots of mistakes, yes, but has also bought Torres, Masch, Agger, Pepe and others maybe not world class and I think he can do better as long as we all support him, but of course that is no longer going to happen.

It's not easy to defend him at the moment and I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to call me on my opinion, but fuck them, this is how I feel. I would probably feel differently at the end of the season if we end up 10th, but I'll still blame some of it on fans who proscribe what others can and cannot sing and have taken to calling the Liverpool manager a cunt and/or fat waiter etc.