PODCAST: Liverpool 3 Brighton 3 - Match Reaction

[KMD7]

Good podcast again lads. Enjoyed it. 

 

Title challenge is gone no doubt about it. All about aiming for top 4 now and see how far we can get in the CL.. As much as I hate to say it I'd fuck the domestic cups off as well. 

 

I hope City win every match (apart from ours obviously) 6-0 and further enforce what a total joke this league is when we're not around to challenge them.

[s(k)aturation]

8 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

Title challenge is gone no doubt about it. All about aiming for top 4 now and see how far we can get in the CL.. As much as I hate to say it I'd fuck the domestic cups off as well. 

 

I hope City win every match (apart from ours obviously) 6-0 and further enforce what a total joke this league is when we're not around to challenge them.

 

The shitness of modern football.

 

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

19 hours ago, Daisy said:

We were closer to finishing the season with no trophies than winning everything. We got out played by Chelsea twice in the domestic finals and failed to score.

 

We never had a chance of the league. We had no choice but to start an injured Thiago in the champions league. 

 

And just look at the cost of that effort now. We overplayed the same 13-14 players because Klopp had no choice. 

Stop talking about Liverpool Immediately please, in all social circles.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Good Pod as usual, It's painful watching us each week but I think we're allowed a season off from serious competitiveness under Klopp, I want the league won by them with ten games to go minimum, a total muted celebration that nobody gives a fuck about, I was going to write I just can't stomach finishing below Arsenal, but right now I'm more worried about Everton.

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, s(k)aturation said:

 

The shitness of modern football.

 

 

Indeed mate. I'm glad we won them last year though. 

[dave u]

18 hours ago, aws said:

It seems to me that we’ve over-tweaked what was working well for us to try and squeeze out a little more  juice and the best example is the rather undisciplined/ all over the place role  which Trent seems to be playing. It’s fucking up both his game and Mo’s game, leaving us more wide open but without adding to our creativity. 
Time to go back to basics and keep it tight, keep it simple. Focus on not conceding. If we can do that, we might surprise ourselves by winning a few 1-0s here and there. 

 

That's exactly how I see it. We make these little tweaks to evolve the playing style, but this one has really not worked at all and both Trent and Mo are suffering as a result of it. There's more to it than that (especially with Trent), but it is a big part of it.

[dave u]

18 hours ago, Kevin D said:

Trent is an outstanding player, he has absolutely revolutionised the RB role.

 

That being said, he does have significant flaws, namely positioning and awful anticipation.

 

Positioning I disagree with. He's usually in the position he's meant to be in, but that's not the position we're used to seeing full backs in so it looks like he's gone walkabout. Klopp spoke about that on Friday.

 

The awful anticipation is probably fair (awful is harsh but he's not great in that area), although the bigger issue for me is more about how slowly he reacts when he's been beaten. It's as though he stops and says "oh for fucks sake" and then watches how it unfolds instead of just carrying on and chasing back in to help out.

[dave u]

18 hours ago, The Guest said:

Nobody ever seemed to want to address the fact that loads of the problems and goals came when he wasn’t even up the pitch or the fact that he rarely gets to the opposition byline even once a game anyway.  

 

It started with the just outright stopping as soon as player or the ball went passed him and this was years ago. He’s clearly been told because this doesn’t happen as blatantly now.  He covers it with half arsed jogging instead with still no intention of getting in position.

 

He’s not offering anything going forward anyway and is harming us by not even providing width.

 

Re the first and last sentences. This is 100% on Klopp and how he wants Trent to play. Unless you think Trent is just saying to himself "actually I'll think I'll just go and stand in the centre forward spot and leave the entire right flank empty". If you do think that, then how do you explain it happening several times in every game? You think Klopp would just allow that if he didn't want it?

 

The middle paragraph is really hard to argue with. It's a definite problem.

[dave u]

5 hours ago, johnsusername said:

Not sure what I think about the criticisms of the crowd. As a former season ticket holder I generally lean to the view that you've paid your money, you're allowed to support the team as you want. And it's not cheap - you've paid £40/50/60 to be there, you've taken a lot of time out of of your day. Do the millionaires on the pitch and on the touchline need a song sung to make them play better? And if the team are serving up dogshit why should the crowd bail them out? 

 

Anyway, football treats people like consumers, so they shouldn't be surprised when it's consumers who turn up, and not rabid supporters. 

 

Just my opinion, anyway. 

 

My view is that if you want to be in the Kop then you have a duty to stand up, sing, roar and do what the Kop is famous for.

 

If you don't want to do that (which is fine), sit somewhere else, like I do. There's a responsibility that comes with a Kop ticket. Or at least there should be.

[dave u]

20 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

John Henry is clearly paying these lads off.

 

1) As if John Henry is paying for anything. 2) If we were getting paid the audio would be better as the lads would have proper gear. Only me and Chris have a proper mic and headset. 

[The Guest]

57 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Re the first and last sentences. This is 100% on Klopp and how he wants Trent to play. Unless you think Trent is just saying to himself "actually I'll think I'll just go and stand in the centre forward spot and leave the entire right flank empty". If you do think that, then how do you explain it happening several times in every game? You think Klopp would just allow that if he didn't want it?

 

The middle paragraph is really hard to argue with. It's a definite problem.

The whole lot of it is on Klopp really.  It’s the only real problem I’ve had with him in his whole time here other than the spell when he carried on playing Moreno ahead of Robertson.  He seems to have a complete blind spot for Trent and it looks to be the hill he’s willing to die on.

 

The whole coaching set up has indulged him to the point it appears his ego is huge and the effort has completely dropped off.  It’s infuriating to watch the laziness in his game and it definitely is laziness because you can see him sprinting seconds or a minute after a lot of these “switch offs” have happened.  I agree it’s obviously Klopp telling him or allowing him to go where he wants centrally.  The thing that pisses me off even more is the odd time Trent does get to the byline we look really dangerous.

 

I don’t think this 4231 idea is really going to fix anything either and I think if anything it’s going to make it harder for the forward players.  I said it a while ago.  We need to fundamentally change the way we attack regardless of the formation,  It’s so rare that we get 2 players wide on one side together and it a been like that for a while.  We just never overlap the man with ball outwide and it kills us.  I find it odd that Klopp or Pep haven’t tried to sort this because it’s glaring.

[dave u]

That last point, on the odd occasions we do it we look really dangerous. Its also how City score 80% of their goals. We seem to have completely moved away from even attempting to play that way and I just don't get it.

[Moo]

People slagging Daisy off about the under-investment as if it's massively far off the mark, while looking for obscure and sometimes insulting reasons why our results have fallen off a cliff.  Makes little sense to me.

Yes we could have won everything last year but we didn't because we weren't playing well enough and the squad wasn't good enough.  How many times can we honestly say we've played really well in the last two years?

[Reckoner]

Enjoyed listening to that as always. Well - if ‘enjoyed’ is the right word, as it’s hard supporting us right now and hearing how shit we are.

Its good that they are recorded soon after the game as it gives the discussion a bit of an edge but at times I think when the adrenaline is flowing people can go a bit overboard on criticism, I definitely do when I get home and that mood is not helped by Merseyrail and the weather etc

A bit of support for Daisy’s comment- although we have been at an insanely high level over a sustained period which is Klopp working miracles, and this team giving us fantastic times, it didn’t have to catch up with us in the way it has recently.  3 CL finals in 5 years and a PL win means a lot of prize and commercial income. A lot. A generous investment each summer similar to Chelsea or United ( or just more than 30 mil net)  is in no way out of our reach, with FSG still raking in profits. That hasn’t happened.

 

[dave u]

I agree, but how much of that is down to FSG and how much is Klopp? None of us really know for sure. 

 

Klopp spent 3/4 of the summer bristling at any suggestion he needed to sign a midfielder and it was only when we started the season badly and had an injury crisis that he went back on it. He said the money was there for the lad who snubbed us for Madrid, and then nobody else he wanted was available. 

 

Besides, his squad got 90 plus points (again), won two trophies and reached the CL final (again) last season. It's easy to say now that the team are over the hill and it needs a rebuild because we've been shite so far, but in the summer the only thing most fans were saying was that we need one more midfielder and we could win everything this time around. 

 

And one midfielder (even Bellingham) wouldn't fix the mess we've seen so far this season. Half the team have fallen off a cliff. Maybe Klopp and the staff should have seen that coming with the wealth of data they have available, but who's to say anything even showed up to hint at it? The poor form of so many players couldn't have been predicted.

[dave u]

3 hours ago, Moo said:

People slagging Daisy off about the under-investment as if it's massively far off the mark, while looking for obscure and sometimes insulting reasons why our results have fallen off a cliff.  Makes little sense to me.

Yes we could have won everything last year but we didn't because we weren't playing well enough and the squad wasn't good enough.  How many times can we honestly say we've played really well in the last two years?

 

The squad was good enough to ensure we played in every single game it was possible to play in. Something that had never been done before. By anyone.

[lebron]

Good pod again. 

 

I wonder if too many of our supporters (both on here and in the stands) are reacting too much to what they read and listen. The lack of support for Trent is especially tiresome, and must be grinding the gears of all of our players, as well as the manager. This is 2022 though, so expect the same from ungrateful football supporters like one does from everyday society, I guess. 

 

City is the big problem. I fully expect us to finish ahead of the other sides. We are (however shit we're perceived to be) still the 2nd best team in the country. We're just not at the same level as Pep's supercharged cheats at the moment, so the contrast becomes bigger than it really is, and the desperation for the league title we feel we deserve becomes more evident. We feel we're owed another title because of the near-wins we've had when up against them. Fact is that as long as Pep is there, they'll probably continue racking up 90+ points, which is pretty much an impossible pace to keep up with.

 

I disagree slightly with that we should change our approach. I actually think we should double down. We just need a couple of our leaders to step up, and Klopp to do a better job with his team selection and subs (he might be forced by the medical department in some instances). 

 

Seems that Klopp's listened to the pod and gone 4-2-3-1. Intrigued to see how it turns out, if not optimistic. I fear it'll be back to chaotic football and hopeful punts more than the slick attacking play of the last few years. Let's hope Jota and co take their chances early.

 

 

[Reckoner]

5 hours ago, dave u said:

I agree, but how much of that is down to FSG and how much is Klopp? None of us really know for sure. 

 

Klopp spent 3/4 of the summer bristling at any suggestion he needed to sign a midfielder and it was only when we started the season badly and had an injury crisis that he went back on it. He said the money was there for the lad who snubbed us for Madrid, and then nobody else he wanted was available. 

 

Besides, his squad got 90 plus points (again), won two trophies and reached the CL final (again) last season. It's easy to say now that the team are over the hill and it needs a rebuild because we've been shite so far, but in the summer the only thing most fans were saying was that we need one more midfielder and we could win everything this time around. 

 

And one midfielder (even Bellingham) wouldn't fix the mess we've seen so far this season. Half the team have fallen off a cliff. Maybe Klopp and the staff should have seen that coming with the wealth of data they have available, but who's to say anything even showed up to hint at it? The poor form of so many players couldn't have been predicted.

Yes fair points and it’s true none of us really know how much is by FSGs tight arse strategy or how much Klopp chose the lack of spending.

But it’s unlikely Klopp chose to have Milner, Keita, AOC as midfielders for this season if he had a choice, ie a decent budget. The net spend is on a par with something like 12th in the league ( about). I doubt he chose that.

 

[dave u]

20 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

Yes fair points and it’s true none of us really know how much is by FSGs tight arse strategy or how much Klopp chose the lack of spending.

But it’s unlikely Klopp chose to have Milner, Keita, AOC as midfielders for this season if he had a choice, ie a decent budget. The net spend is on a par with something like 12th in the league ( about). I doubt he chose that.

 

 

I'm not so sure. He gave Milner a new contract when he didn't need to. He's reportedly offered Naby a new one too. 

 

I do think Ox threw a spanner in the works when he got injured because it meant we couldn't sell him, and we probably were in a 'sell to buy' situation. Not because of the transfer fee, but more so the wage bill. 

 

If Ox (or Naby) had been sold then we'd have brought someone in. When they stayed, that was that. Until we got the injuries and eventually tried to act.

[Bjornebye]

6 hours ago, dave u said:

 

The squad was good enough to ensure we played in every single game it was possible to play in. Something that had never been done before. By anyone.

This. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Klopp will know full well he only gets to spend what the sales bring in. He's going to say we don't need new midfielders if the budget isn't there because it's how he does his man management of the players we have. As soon as the injuries popped up he was straight in there saying he wished the owners would take risks because it wasn't a case of him saying we need better than what we have, he could say it without diminishing his own players because it was injuries rather than these guys aren't good enough. Its not to say Klopp doesn't have issues with loyalty I think losing all his players at Dortmund means he never wants to let them go now. I think we would offer Firmino a new contract and inspite of his goals this season I think it would be madness just get some of these older players off the books and move forward. Don't cling on to how good they were. We need to be calculated when it comes to the team that doesn't mean we sell players at their peak to fund the next hopefuls but we don't offer new long contracts to players clearly past their peak.

 

I think we need to stop forcing the issue of making Trent our playmaker. The team should not be built around him he's a right back he should play as an attacking right back, whip in crosses when he can, do what he does, it feels like we've gone "we've got a lethal weapon here he must be the focus" and the focus is completely unbalancing our team. He's a cog in the machine nothing more. His form has been a combination of the managers fault and Trent to an extent he can be guilty of treating games like he's on the park.

 

I dont think we should double down, is someone just going to sprinkle fairy dust on these players and suddenly it's all free flowing, players saying "I'm going to step up this game" until we genuinely begin to look solid defensively this side is cooked because the constant panic stations chase back is clearly taking its toll on all our players decision making and composure. if we were clinical then we could just play the we will outscored you game but we look laboured creating chances and we hardly take the ones we do.

 

who knows If we can stop being easy to break down with the amount of games we have coming up maybe we can find that rhythm of playing again and whatever it is we want to play will just fit into place. More games less time to think and muscle memory.