Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[dennis tooth]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/jeremy-corbyn-absolutely-right-not-resign-labour-leader/

[Section_31]

60,000 new memberships in the Labour Party for those wanting to support Corbyn.

 

IMO a lot of people are doing this for the same reason they voted brexit and are voting sanders and trump, they hate the existing political class. Fair play to them, I totally understand why they're doing it, but there won't be much of a party left when it's over.

[Jairzinho]

Looks like the £3 mob are making it permanent before the rules change.

 

Excellent news.

[FanchesterCity]

The Labour Party members are a minority of the public. A General Election is won by winning the rest of the people over.

A camera shy leader isn't going to win over those masses who hardly know they guy or what he stands for.

If you want to lead a nation, you have to be seen to be leading - he's hardly seen, and hardly leads.

[dennis tooth]

The Labour Party members are a minority of the public. A General Election is won by winning the rest of the people over.

A camera shy leader isn't going to win over those masses who hardly know they guy or what he stands for.

If you want to lead a nation, you have to be seen to be leading - he's hardly seen, and hardly leads.

Depends where you look.

Fact is he's up against gove or may and wins evrytime.

[dennis tooth]

Plus who else is going to do that you say needs doing within Labour?

[Sugar Ape]

 

Boring?

 

Im not the one who sounds like Dianne Abbot:

 

 

No, you sound like a homophobic David Icke you mental bastard.

 

But yeah I'll stand by boring. We must be moving into predictable poem territory soon.

[dennis tooth]

No, you sound like a homophobic David Icke you mental bastard.

 

But yeah I'll stand by boring. We must be moving into predictable poem territory soon.

Chat shit get banged

[Spy Bee]

Labour is traditionally a party of the members. This is continuing that tradition as bunch of malignant wankers try and remove any form of representation fro m the working class.

 

I agree with what S31 says, people have had enough & although their actions may not strictly be constructive, they are having an effect.

[Sugar Ape]

Chat shit get banged

You must have been banged more than Jenna Jameson then.

[dennis tooth]

You must have been banged more than Jenna Jameson then.

Very funny you should do stand up.

[FanchesterCity]

Plus who else is going to do that you say needs doing within Labour?

 

I did mention that earlier. If like me, you don't think Corbyn's got enough presence (for want of a better word), you still have to replace him with someone who has - and the Labour Party's struggling on that front too. Personally I think Watson, Eagle, Burnham or even Cooper are 'better' but still woefully lacking. They need another Blair (not in policy, but in likability - another awful word, but sums it up really).

 

Even Blair was reelected fairly convincingly after Iraq, such was his appeal.

 

I feel guilty about condoning the superficiality of it all, but I accept that the superficiality of winning votes with the right face and yes, the right lies, wins elections. 

[King Emlyn]

I just can't get my around the fact intelligent people honestly think Jeremy Corbyn would win a General Election, it just baffles me and before you ask Eagle has no chance either. Theresa May, cos that's who will win the Tory race, would wipe the fucking floor with Corbyn. I can understand people sticking with Corbyn because they see him as representing their values and therefore will argue for him but Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister? Never, ever happening. Hope over expectation surely. He's a dreadful leader, I'm sorry but he really is the left should look towards a different leader, it's clear that's the way the members want to go and that's fair enough but you're gonna have to do better than Jeremy Corbyn, Image and perception matter massively if he's to run for the office he's running for and in this area does anybody honestly think he comes out well? Honestly ? And that's before you take Murdoch into account. I said these exact same things on here when Milliband was elected and there were loads arguing otherwise, I was right then and I'm right now.

[FanchesterCity]

Labour is traditionally a party of the members. This is continuing that tradition as bunch of malignant wankers try and remove any form of representation fro m the working class.

 

I agree with what S31 says, people have had enough & although their actions may not strictly be constructive, they are having an effect.

 

They're free to represent their members in opposition ad-infinitum.

If they fancy representing the British Electorate, they'd better fucking shape up, and rapidly.

They need a face that looks good, a voice that sounds good and someone who is prepared to get in front of a camera and inspire. Make believe in a Labour Party again - and to do that, you have to go to them, the general public and win them over, they won't fucking come to you Mr Corbyn.

[Creator Supreme]

You can all frig off as far as I'm concerned, you might be right, but at the same time you can all frig off!!

[sir roger]

I don't understand the certainty of people who say Corbyn is unelectable.

 

Surely the lesson of the last few elections / referendums is that the country's voting patterns are as volatile as at any other time & confounding professional pollsters with millions to spend.

 

If we accept the published figures that his popularity was roughly level with Cameron less than 3 months ago, with a not too impossible scenario of him winning a 2nd election, his PLP keeping their distaste better hidden, the Tory election opening fissures in the party and the economic problems mounting, I can see plenty of scope for Corbyn to start gaining some traction with the public.

 

The fact that of those possibilities it is the PLP accepting an election result is the least likely is a scary thought.

[Spy Bee]

I just can't get my around the fact intelligent people honestly think Jeremy Corbyn would win a General Election, it just baffles me and before you ask Eagle has no chance either. Theresa May, cos that's who will win the Tory race, would wipe the fucking floor with Corbyn. I can understand people sticking with Corbyn because they see him as representing their values and therefore will argue for him but Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister? Never, ever happening. Hope over expectation surely. He's a dreadful leader, I'm sorry but he really is the left should look towards a different leader, it's clear that's the way the members want to go and that's fair enough but you're gonna have to do better than Jeremy Corbyn, Image and perception matter massively if he's to run for the office he's running for and in this area does anybody honestly think he comes out well? Honestly ? And that's before you take Murdoch into account. I said these exact same things on here when Milliband was elected and there were loads arguing otherwise, I was right then and I'm right now.

If you think that those in favour of an anti austerity political stance will give a fuck about JC now wearing a tie, or not bowing enough degrees your mad. I think he's actually a refreshing change from the rest of the demagogue action man styled politicians. He actually stands for something. He actually answers questions without using PR soundbites. He actually does seem to give a fuck about the people he represents.

[Scooby Dudek]

People on the left who, whilst they admire the person and respect his policies, believe Corbyn is unelectable have a problem.

Corbyn was only allowed on the ballot by the right of the party as a token, so he could lose heavily (out of touch with the membership) and the right could talk about democratically elected leader the whole party should unite behind (the irony).

 

The issue now is if Corbyn resigns then there is no chance whatsoever that a left leaning MP would get anywhere near the ballot, the PLP would not nominate anyone who is anti the status quo. So people on the left have a choice Corbyn or nobody. This is why it is so polarised, the up coming ballot is not only about the next general election but about the future direction of the Labour Party. IMO 

[Boss]

 

These are the constituencies won by Tony Blair in 1997. As you can see, zero conservative constituencies in Scotland. Large amounts of labour constituencies in Scotland, Wales and the North of England.

 

 

This is the 2015 election.

 

Nearly all of the constituencies in Scotland are SNP (and they're staying that way until they get independence). If the Scots decide to vote leave then remove all 59 Scottish constituencies from the map. Look at England and Wales, the mass majority of the seats are Tory. With the Tories changing the boundary system it makes it even more likely for them to maintain those seats.

 

There's two trains of thought, one is try to win as many working class seats as possible, targeting the North and Wales specifically. Which could be achieved by tapping into the general publics apathy for politics, galvanising the disenfranchised to rally for your cause under an anti establishment candidate like Corbyn. The other is present yourself as tory lite and go head to head with the tories in their own constituencies.

 

I don't think either will win an election unless they bring in proportional representation or the Tories fuck up the next 4 years so spectacularly that the whole country is desperate for a change in 2020. The only other option is Scotland drop the whole nationalism, independence schtick and go back to voting Labour and that's not going to happen any time soon.

[Denny Crane]

I don't understand the certainty of people who say Corbyn is unelectable.

 

Surely the lesson of the last few elections / referendums is that the country's voting patterns are as volatile as at any other time & confounding professional pollsters with millions to spend.

 

If we accept the published figures that his popularity was roughly level with Cameron less than 3 months ago, with a not too impossible scenario of him winning a 2nd election, his PLP keeping their distaste better hidden, the Tory election opening fissures in the party and the economic problems mounting, I can see plenty of scope for Corbyn to start gaining some traction with the public.

 

The fact that of those possibilities it is the PLP accepting an election result is the least likely is a scary thought.

Yep uncharted territory. Farage a man rejected to become an MP 7 times, 7 times being instrumental in getting millions and millions to vote against the media friendly dodgy Dave.

 

One thing we do know is people of all backgrounds are seriously pissed with what is/has being served up.

[FanchesterCity]

I don't understand the certainty of people who say Corbyn is unelectable.

 

Surely the lesson of the last few elections / referendums is that the country's voting patterns are as volatile as at any other time & confounding professional pollsters with millions to spend.

 

If we accept the published figures that his popularity was roughly level with Cameron less than 3 months ago, with a not too impossible scenario of him winning a 2nd election, his PLP keeping their distaste better hidden, the Tory election opening fissures in the party and the economic problems mounting, I can see plenty of scope for Corbyn to start gaining some traction with the public.

 

The fact that of those possibilities it is the PLP accepting an election result is the least likely is a scary thought.

 

Nothing is impossible, I'll hold my hands up on that one, but if he does win a GE, I would interpret that as an anti-Tory protest rather than a pro-Labour vote. But that would be impossible to prove and would sound churlish if he won (even though it's what I would I believe).

 

Labour should be buzzing about the start of the Tory party, but now, it's the other way around! The Tory Party can get away with blue murder (pardon the pun) as Labour implode.

 

I would think the Tories quite fancy a GE soon as it would give them another 4 years without too much effort, the only problem for them is that it might be a terrible economic 4 years that they'd prefer to give the Labour party!

[cloggypop]

We're talking about a General Election where people do very much have a habit of voting for faces. That's not saying they don't listen to the bullet points of policies, but that's as far as it goes, and they are more easily persuaded by the faces they like. UKIP = Farage. Tory = Cameron and Labour = Corbyn. Just like the US election is about Trump vs Clinton. Of course, Republicans vs Democrats ultimately, but those faces matter and they win / lose votes.

 

Most of the UK aren't debating politics like we are doing here, they're driving around in a white van doing an honest days work, and saying 'Not sure what Labour are up to these days, hardly see that Corbyn bloke, not even sure if he was in or out of Europe'.

Not sure why they'd be that arsed about being deselected if that was the case. Surely none of them would lose their seats.

[FanchesterCity]

 

These are the constituencies won by Tony Blair in 1997. As you can see, zero conservative constituencies in Scotland. Large amounts of labour constituencies in Scotland, Wales and the North of England.

 

 

This is the 2015 election.

 

Nearly all of the constituencies in Scotland are SNP (and they're staying that way until they get independence). If the Scots decide to vote leave then remove all 59 Scottish constituencies from the map. Look at England and Wales, the mass majority of the seats are Tory. With the Tories changing the boundary system it makes it even more likely for them to maintain those seats.

 

There's two trains of thought, one is try to win as many working class seats as possible, targeting the North and Wales specifically. Which could be achieved by tapping into the general publics apathy for politics, galvanising the disenfranchised to rally for your cause under an anti establishment candidate like Corbyn. The other is present yourself as tory lite and go head to head with the tories in their own constituencies.

 

I don't think either will win an election unless they bring in proportional representation or the Tories fuck up the next 4 years so spectacularly that the whole country is desperate for a change in 2020. The only other option is Scotland drop the whole nationalism, independence schtick and go back to voting Labour and that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

Does this not suggest that 'core values' and 'deep rooted party allegiances' are a minority thing, and that most voters are more than willing to actually change from Labour to Tory and back again?

I accept some people will vote Labour come hell or high water, and same for the Tories and if a party purely wants to represent just that core vote, they can, but will almost certainly be in opposition forever. To be in power, and effect real change, they have to win the swinging voters, and it's not a few percent, it's absolute massive numbers. The majority of the UK are swingers!

If the Labour Party don't win them, the Tories will.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here mate. Are you saying leaders of parties don't matter at all and people only vote on the competencies of their MP? Because I think that's massively wrong if so.

 

Most people will vote for a party based on how well they like the leader and believe in him in my opinion.

I'm saying that MPs should stop bitching about the leader and do their own fucking jobs.

 

It doesn't take a miracle for a competent MP to get re-elected; it just takes a bit of honest work.

[bonesman]

 

Petition here:

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/a-vote-of-confidence-in-jeremy-corbyn-after-brexit

 

 

 

 

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   JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM  4h4 hours ago

   More people have now signed the petition with confidence in JC than voted for him last year #KeepCorbyn

   

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