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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

281 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      226
    • No
      55


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10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

It's just all so tedious now, Brexit/Corbyn bating is as boring as Donald Trump's slow decent into insanity. 

 

"Why isn't Corbyn saying anything about Brexit?"

"He is."

"No I mean stuff I want to hear!"

"Like what?"

"That he'd reverse Brexit." 

"But he can't because he's not the Prime Minister."

"He's a disgrace, I'll never vote for him now."

"Would you have voted for him anyway?"

"Fucking kidding aren't you?" 

 

Corbyn is straight up lying when he says Brexit can't be reversed. It's inevitable that people are going to pull him up for that. 

 

But then, if he acknowledged the truth, then he would have had to properly answer the question he was asked: "Would you stop Brexit if you could?"

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10 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/brexit-plan-complete-shambles-uk-boss-of-thyssenkrupp-says

 

Brexit shoving it to the elites. The boss of Thyssen will have to retire to Spain on his multimillion pension whilst the workers who voted for Brexit won't have any work. All going perfectly to plan.

The fella didn't have to say anything and just shuffle off with his pension. Fair play to him for at least calling out  the Tory cunts for what they are. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 12:01 PM, Hades said:

I was part of the mob, until the mob came for me.

 

Feminism being part of the socialist movement is too divisive. Men are exploited all over the world. I really am tired of everyone thinking that the top 5-10% of men represents every man. If you have been personally affected by male suicide or family drug addiction you'd get it. I'm also deeply worried about the unquestioning acceptance of the trans agenda - deeply troubled kids having their empathy weaponised to destroy their bodies. You only have to take a wander off the beaten path of the internet to see it. There are a lot of narcissists and chauvinists good at playing the part of egalitarians.  I'll try not to troll your posts, but I just want to warn you of the inevitable backlash.

I actually agree with a fair chunk of that. I’m as left wing as I have ever been, I’m as socially liberal as I’ve ever been, and I’m as egalitarian as I ever have been. But these last few years there has been this bizarre bastardisation of these values, starting with the US university campus driven hilarity. It’s hard not to want to push back against it. 

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Hmm employers being forced to pay higher rates as they can't find workers. The last figures from the ons reported a record number of job vacancies since records began in 2001. So to play devils advocate, voters who voted to reduce immigration as they were worried about the impact on wages and the power shifted to the employer are starting to see some evidence that supports their argument in some employment areas. 

 

Dmz-P6-SKXo-AIJ1-J4.jpg

 

 

The report revealed skills and labour shortages were pushing up pay as employers respond to the shortfall.

Almost half of organisations which reported heightened recruitment difficulties (48 per cent) have increased starting salaries in response, and 27 per cent have done so for the majority of vacancies. 

Davies warned that while continued recruitment and retention pressures may raise earnings for some, weak productivity growth and continuing uncertainty over Brexit are likely to restrict earnings growth of other workers in the coming months.

 

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/recruiters-facing-supply-shock-migrant-workers-shun-uk?utm_source=mc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=pm_daily_121118.11/12/2018.653753.Recruiters+facing+‘supply+shock’+as+migrant+workers+shun+UK%2c+CIPD+data+reveals&utm_campaign=&utm_term=5351148

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"The pendulum has swung against the UK as an attractive place to live and work ".

 

Britannia, rejoice!

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying that, if we still have a Tory Government this time next year, wages will still be stagnant.

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On 11/11/2018 at 11:09 AM, AngryofTuebrook said:

I repeat - what the actual fuck are you talking about, you dribbling Fash-buddy?

 

The massive problem of unemployment across the eu, but you knew that, you sidestep it because it's not that important to you, or you as you are doing ok you just don't care.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/id/101028085

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2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Meanwhile, the deal seems to be actually happening.

This is only the withdrawal text. Yet to pass the DUP, the cabinet, either parliaments or the 27 other countries. 2 and a half years for the easy bit.

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Nice to see has Boris Johnson finally admitted that Parliament made it's own laws for the last however many centuries. Wasn't saying this during the referendum.

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2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

The massive problem of unemployment across the eu, but you knew that, you sidestep it because it's not that important to you, or you as you are doing ok you just don't care.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/id/101028085

Go back a few pages and you'll see that I posted a link to a fuller set of EU unemployment stats and a more intelligent discussion of the subject than you have ever tried. 

 

Now that you've decided you don't like sidestepping questions, will you finally answer: why are you so gung-ho in your support for an Italian right-wing/Fascist coalition who are claiming that they will end austerity for indigenous white Italians, but you have nothing to say about Portugal's left-wing/Socialist coalition who are busy ending austerity for everyone, regardless of nationality, ethnicity or religion?

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On 11/11/2018 at 10:32 AM, Gnasher said:

 

Enjoy you're EU propaganda money, meanwhile in the real world.

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/id/101028085

 

119mil Europeans approacing poverty. 23.7% and rising.

 

You keep pedaling the 'nothing to do with me guv"  line angry., just don't expect everyone to swallow the bullshit.

Maybe I wasn't explicit enough in my question. 

 

What "EU propaganda money" am I enjoying?

 

Why do you imagine you're telling anyone anything that they don’t already know when you post links about the price of neoliberalism?

 

When have I ever peddled (correct spelling) the "nothing to do with me" line?

 

Feel free to swerve these questions and post a link about Baroness Warsi instead.

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It sounds like they are about to implement the big media frenzy on how May has achieved a deal and how it's been a 'stunning success' , will be interesting to see whether this will convince the DUP and Brexit headbangers. Also the 27 may get a bit miffed if this incorporates future relationship stuff.

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13 minutes ago, Moctezuma said:

It sounds like they are about to implement the big media frenzy on how May has achieved a deal and how it's been a 'stunning success' , will be interesting to see whether this will convince the DUP and Brexit headbangers. Also the 27 may get a bit miffed if this incorporates future relationship stuff.

She's backed herself into a corner largely because of her evasive traits. Her reputation of being a political opportunist who avoids making decisions and prefers to appease is well deserved. 

 

Having said that this is the reality of a Brexit deal with the EU, it's a poorer version of what we already have. The Brexiteer's are up in arms about it simply because this is reality crashing into their fantasies. What happened to those sunny uplands they promised in the referendum? Weren't we supposed to have exactly the same benefits once we left? What happened to us hot footing it over to Berlin to hammer out an easy deal with Germany after a cowed EU gives way?

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On 11/11/2018 at 3:51 PM, Strontium Dog said:

 

Corbyn is straight up lying when he says Brexit can't be reversed. It's inevitable that people are going to pull him up for that. 

 

But then, if he acknowledged the truth, then he would have had to properly answer the question he was asked: "Would you stop Brexit if you could?"

I really don't understand this line of thinking he may get castigated for his position (In particular by future generations) and I too find it irritating, but the actual political mechanics of rejecting the referendum result where you basically say fuck off to more than 50% of the usual electorate is mind boggling.

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41 minutes ago, clangers said:

She's backed herself into a corner largely because of her evasive traits. Her reputation of being a political opportunist who avoids making decisions and prefers to appease is well deserved. 

 

Having said that this is the reality of a Brexit deal with the EU, it's a poorer version of what we already have. The Brexiteer's are up in arms about it simply because this is reality crashing into their fantasies. What happened to those sunny uplands they promised in the referendum? Weren't we supposed to have exactly the same benefits once we left? What happened to us hot footing it over to Berlin to hammer out an easy deal with Germany after a cowed EU gives way?

To be fair she made some decisions on the hostile environment, those vans and deporting brown people who had been living here for 50 odd years. Plus was happy to start implementing huge cuts to legal aid.

 

Dealing with the brexiteers of the hard right must be like talking to dementia patients; unable to comprehend everything, forgetting previous things they have said and failing to understand that some things are not possible or attainable with all of this resulting in anger and emotional turmoil.

 

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1 hour ago, Moctezuma said:

I really don't understand this line of thinking he may get castigated for his position (In particular by future generations) and I too find it irritating, but the actual political mechanics of rejecting the referendum result where you basically say fuck off to more than 50% of the usual electorate is mind boggling.

 

You do recall the result, yes? Stay or go, you will be saying fuck off to half the electorate. And it's still straight up untrue to say Brexit can't be stopped.

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It wasn't even half the electorate. 37%, 25% of the population if you really want to be pedantic. It's an embarrassment that both main parties have taken such a tenuous opinion poll to try and strip rights from the public.

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1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

You do recall the result, yes? Stay or go, you will be saying fuck off to half the electorate. And it's still straight up untrue to say Brexit can't be stopped.

As someone who defended the Lib Dems for compromising on their principles due to political expediency you seem happy to be remarkably naive on this SD.

 

The truth is the referendum was a farce, such a massive change should have required more than 1 vote over 50%, or an objective vote on the actual conditions of leaving, and the leave campaign peddled complete lies funded by illegal contributions. 

 

However, do you really think there is a way Labour could have led the charge to refuse to recognise the referendum result and prevented Brexit?  

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I am pretty pro-EU and would welcome pursuing any avenue that can avoid Brexit, but there are some strange views of democracy and will of the people expressed here.

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1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

As someone who defended the Lib Dems for compromising on their principles due to political expediency you seem happy to be remarkably naive on this SD.

 

The truth is the referendum was a farce, such a massive change should have required more than 1 vote over 50%, or an objective vote on the actual conditions of leaving, and the leave campaign peddled complete lies funded by illegal contributions. 

 

However, do you really think there is a way Labour could have led the charge to refuse to recognise the referendum result and prevented Brexit?  

 

I don't know what the Lib Dems have to do with this, other than being an excellent example of a party that has laid out a Brexit position on day one and stuck rigidly to it, irrespective of any other considerations, because it was the right thing to do.

 

And part of the reason for that is because, yes, the referendum was a farce. That any party should feel obliged to abide by the result of it is farcical.

 

But Corbyn is still straight up wrong when he says Brexit cannot be stopped.

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