Whistleblower exposes MMR Autism link

[Rico1304]

I remember refusing my BCG in school and have never had a flu jab as refused them all. Can't remember the last time I was ill.

Have you told the Lancet? Although your story has more credibility than Wakefield.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I remember refusing my BCG in school and have never had a flu jab as refused them all. Can't remember the last time I was ill.

You're fortunate that the people around you didn't refuse theirs.

[Ne Moe Imya]

I genuinely am gobsmacked that this thread even exists.  I realise that those of us on the left are more prone to question authority, and this can be a very good and necessary thing.  However, one has to balance a healthy scepticism of authority with a reasonable ability to evaluate things that are scientifically proven, otherwise you descend into madness.

 

The psychology of conspiracy is very interesting, once the person "believes" then anyone who questions them is perceived as "in on it" and therefore unreliable.  But in this case (as in the case of many other so-called "conspiracies" like global warming or Bush-did-9/11) there are absolute mountains of evidence on one side vs a few nuts and crackpots on the other side.  Not saying it's completely impossible that vaccines cause autism and that thousands of experts are either intentionally lying for profit or hugely blind to the truth, but the odds are probably 0.0000000001% that this is the case.  It's a ridiculous position to espouse and anyone that does so is rightly mocked for being a danger to public health.

 

Just reposting my old post from almost a year ago, because every word of it still applies.

[VladimirIlyich]

Just reposting my old post from almost a year ago, because every word of it still applies.

Its quite ironic that a good few of the people who refuse their innoculations dont need much convincing regarding (quite rightly of course) about global warming etc.

[bigbak]

My misses won't do it with our one year old.

I won't force the issue.

 

He's so precious that I wouldn't risk anything to hurt or change him.

 

Hopefully I can pay for individual doses privately without having to loose a kidney.

[Rico1304]

My misses won't do it with our one year old.

I won't force the issue.

 

He's so precious that I wouldn't risk anything to hurt or change him.

 

Hopefully I can pay for individual doses privately without having to loose a kidney.

No calpol? No neurofen?

[Red Phoenix]

Have got to admit that if you spend time looking at some of the concerns here it looks like there's a lot of legitimate concerns (and yes, from scientists too.) There's a good number of studies (you could probably list hundreds if you had the time to go around them all properly) questioning the safety of aspects of different vaccines.

 

I do get that this is one of the most difficult subjects to speak about though because it involves peoples kids and also all of the rest of us who've had several of these vaccines in the past. If there's a subject that's likely to raise the cognitive dissonance level up to 11 this is definitely one of them, and I'm not trying to insult anyone either, I just think that's a fact. If I had a kid who'd surely need vaccinations at some stage though I can only imagine how difficult it must be to take a serious look into this subject, so I'm not trying to insult anyone.

 

I think what we need here is what's needed in several areas that involve corporations making billions and governments so closely linked, which is a lot of investigating and a serious look at changing how things are currently done. If establishment science and the health authorities are ever going to be freed from so much of the influence that corporations and corporate funding have over them, and the media are going to report fairly, I think we're probably going to see that yes, quite a lot of mistakes have been made here and that yes they have also been partly or completely covered up.

 

That isn't meant to fearmonger. Most people might be completely fine after having their vaccines. At the same time, dismissing every scientist who speaks out as a fraud, making out like every paper raising real concerns is junk science or not important, and labelling every person that decides to look further into this and ask questions as an anti-vaxxer, well it doesn't look like the best way of going about this subject.

 

And there's absolutely no way that this whole issue is anything like settled, like some in the media are pushing from time to time.

 

From Peter Doshi writing in the BMJ in Feb this year :

"Medical journalists have an obligation to the truth. But journalists must also ensure that patients come first, which means a fresh approach to covering vaccines. It's time to listen - seriously and respectfully - to patients' concerns, not demonize them."

His whole article is here : http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/pdfs/BMJ-Trump-Vaccines.pdf

 

None of this is about being anti-vaxx from me, my stance on this is probably that for the main part, I think the whole system needs reform so that it's made a lot safer and more independent of the corporations that are producing the vaccines (and again, making billions). That actually reminds me of Jill Stein's stance on this I think, which I don't think is that different (found this after quickly checking. Not surprising that snopes would add some seeds of doubt at the end though!) She was labelled anti-vaxx too, which is also no surprise at all given some of the shit she had to endure last year.

[Red Phoenix]

Extract from UPI, July 21, 2003 :

 

UPI Investigates: The vaccine conflict

For Rotashield, the CDC's public database contains 664 total reports possibly caused by the vaccine, including 288 emergency room visits, 63 life-threatening reactions, 232 hospitalizations, 10 disabilities and eight deaths.

"Eight deaths," said Jayne Irons. "You just have to thank God that you are not one of the deaths."

Republican staff on the House Government Reform Committee looked into the CDC panel that recommended the vaccination. Their August 2001 report found that "four out of eight CDC advisory committee members who voted to approve guidelines for the rotavirus vaccine in June 1998 had financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that were developing different versions of the vaccine."

A transcript from that June 1998 meeting shows the committee voted down an effort by one member to phase in the vaccine because of concern over possible bad side effects. "I'm still a little concerned about the safety issues," Marie Griffin from Vanderbilt University said before that vote.

When asked, members of the committee told UPI their potential conflicts do not affect their judgment.

"I am probably just the kind of person you are talking about," said Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, who was a committee member until last month. At the same time, he shared a patent for another rotavirus vaccine. Merck has funded Offit's research for 13 years.

"I am a co-holder of a patent for a (rotavirus) vaccine. If this vaccine were to become a routinely recommended vaccine, I would make money off of that," Offit said. "When I review safety data, am I biased? That answer is really easy: absolutely not."

"Is there an unholy alliance between the people who make recommendations about vaccines and the vaccine manufacturers? The answer is no."

Merck bought and delivers copies of Offit's book, "What Every Parent Should Know About Vaccines," to American doctors. The book has a list price of $14.95.

"Merck Vaccine Division is pleased to present you with a copy of the recent publication, 'What Every Parent Should Know About Vaccines,'" says a Dear Doctor letter from Merck. "The authors designed the book to answer questions parents have about vaccines and to dispel misinformation about vaccines that sometimes appears in the public media."

Offit said he does not know how many copies of his book Merck purchased. "I don't have any control over that," he said.

The 2001 Government Reform Committee's investigation noted potential conflicts with another committee member. The chairman of the CDC's Vaccine Advisory Committee, Dartmouth Medical School Professor Dr. John Modlin, owned $26,000 in Merck stock.

In a telephone interview with UPI, Modlin said he had sold that stock, but that he had recently agreed to chair a committee to oversee Merck vaccine clinical trials. Modlin, who was the committee chairman until last month, said he does not know how much compensation he receives from that post, but that Merck "pays my expenses" to attend meetings.

In October 1999, the committee reversed its recommendation that all infants should get rotavirus vaccinations. Modlin said the vaccine was safe enough, but the committee reversed itself out of concern that bad press over Rotashield might make some people stop getting vaccinated altogether.

"There could be some spill-over effects that would have a net negative effect," Modlin said. "I thought that was the committee's finest hour."

Meeting transcripts over the past decade showed that at some meetings, half of the members present had potential conflicts with vaccine manufacturers.

The CDC said that in October 2002 it adopted new guidelines for participating on that advisory committee that in the future will preclude people with conflicts like Offit's from sitting on the committee.

"We learned from that experience (with rotavirus) and have now put in force more stringent criteria recently so we do not nominate people with those kinds of conflicts," said the CDC's Snider.

At the June 2002 committee meeting -- the last meeting for which minutes are available -- four of the 11 members present acknowledged conflicts with Wyeth, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Pfizer, Bayer and Aventis Pasteur. Two of the four did research or vaccine trials for manufacturers. One of the four was a co-holder of a vaccine patent as well as a consultant to Merck.

At odds over autism

At 8:05 a.m. on Monday, July 16, 2001, a vaccine safety committee of the influential Institute of Medicine convened a public meeting at the Charles Hotel in Cambridge, Mass.

The purpose: to discuss whether CDC-recommended vaccines might be responsible for a wave of autism and neurological problems in tens of thousands of American children during the 1990s.

The concern: most vaccines contained a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal. Too much mercury has known toxic effects on the brain.

Since the mid 1980s, the number of childhood vaccinations recommended by the CDC had nearly doubled. The agency recommends nearly 40 doses of vaccines for children today. Also since the mid-1980s the autism rate in the United States had soared by 10 times to an astonishing one child in every 300.

Cause and effect or coincidence?

The vaccine manufacturers deny any connection, but the Institute of Medicine -- part of the National Academy of Sciences and a key adviser to the federal government on medical concerns -- wanted to hear from Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, a CDC expert on the issue.

When Verstraeten appeared before the committee, he made a surprise opening statement.

"First, I should mention that as of 8 a.m. European time I have been employed by a vaccine manufacturer," Verstraeten told the panel, according to a transcript. "That means since 2 a.m. American time," just hours before he spoke on behalf of the CDC.

Verstraeten had been working at the CDC on a study of 76,659 children to determine if thimerosal might be causing neurological problems like autism.

Signs of autism usually show up around age 2. Sometimes children who had previously appeared to interact normally will suddenly regress, become withdrawn and stop responding to their parents and the outside world. They may perform repetitive motions, like spinning or flapping their arms, have seizures, scream uncontrollably and resist physical touch.

Manufacturers had used thimerosal, which contains ethyl-mercury, as a preservative in multi-dose vials of vaccine. The vials allow needles to be inserted repeatedly and the vaccine drawn out. The vials are cheaper than packaging doses of vaccine separately, without thimerosal.

Depending on what vaccines a child got during that period, a visit to the doctor during the 1990's may have exposed some children to 125 times the limit on mercury set by the Environmental Protection Agency.

A February 2000 draft of Verstraeten's study, obtained by United Press International, appears to show that thimerosal might cause brain problems.

That draft cites "increasing risks of neurological developmental disorders with increasing cumulative exposure to thimerosal."

"We can state that this analysis does not rule out that receipt of thimerosal-containing vaccine in children under 3 months of age may be related to an increased risk of neurologic developmental disorders," the study said.

To discuss the findings in Verstraeten's study, the CDC convened a meeting at the Simpsonwood Retreat Center in Norcross, Ga., on June 7-8, 2000. The agency invited vaccine experts and representatives of four vaccine manufacturers.

After discussing that study, Dr. David Johnson, a Michigan state public health officer advising the CDC on vaccines, said that the findings were troubling, according to a transcript.

"My gut feeling? It worries me enough," said Johnson. "I do not want (my) grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."

Later in the same conversation, CDC officials agreed to keep the study private.

"We have been privileged so far that given the sensitivity of information, we have been able to manage to keep it out of, let's say, less responsible hands," said Bob Chen, head of CDC's Vaccine Safety and Development unit.

Dr. Roger Bernier, who was then CDC's associate director for science, responded, "I think if we will all just consider this embargoed information, if I can use that term."

The CDC's Walter Orenstein said the agency wanted to look hard at the study before discussing it in public, not cover it up. The CDC never published a study based on the data, but said it would soon.

GlaxoSmithKline declined UPI's request to interview Verstraeten from Rixensart, Belgium, but Orenstein said Verstraeten left the CDC to move back to Europe.

http://www.upi.com/UPI-Investigates-The-vaccine-conflict/44221058841736/

[Red Phoenix]

To come back to more modern concerns, this is from a group referring to themselves as the Vaccine Safety Commission. They're anonymous here, and it's not hard to figure out why given the current climate :
 
"Who wouldn't want safer vaccines?"
 
The Vaccine Safety Commission was formed by concerned scientists, doctors, journalists, and parents. There are too many unanswered questions about the safety of the United States Vaccine Program, and every American citizen deserves to know the truth. We provide the following information for all concerned citizens:
 
50 peer-reviewed, published studies from scientists all over the world that raise grave concerns about the impact vaccines are having on human health. These studies are never cited by the U.S. media, and yet the majority have been published since 2010. These studies alone clearly and unequivocally support the importance of taking a closer look at vaccine safety.
 
A quick review of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, a compensation system set up by the U.S. Government that has paid out settlements in excess of $3 billion for vaccine injury.
 
An overview of the Vaccine Court, the only legal means American citizens have to sue for vaccine injury, a 1986 law made vaccine makers 100% liability free.
 
A summary of the disturbing conflicts of interests at our Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, the governing body in charge of the U.S. Vaccine Program.
 
The AAP sent a letter on February 7, 2017, to President Trump that included a study from a whistleblower scientist at CDC, a wanted felon, and a paper showing that vaccines cause neurological tics. The AAP is a trade union for Pediatricians, who make the majority of their revenues from vaccines (more on that here.)

 

http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/index.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

My misses won't do it with our one year old.

I won't force the issue.

 

He's so precious that I wouldn't risk anything to hurt or change him.

 

Hopefully I can pay for individual doses privately without having to loose a kidney.

Then get him vaccinated as soon as!

 

You want to protect him; so, protect him.

[Evelyn Tentions]

My misses won't do it with our one year old.

I won't force the issue.

 

He's so precious that I wouldn't risk anything to hurt or change him.

 

Hopefully I can pay for individual doses privately without having to loose a kidney.

By not getting him properly vaccinated you ARE risking everything.

[Evelyn Tentions]

To come back to more modern concerns, this is from a group referring to themselves as the Vaccine Safety Commission. They're anonymous here, and it's not hard to figure out why given the current climate :

 

"Who wouldn't want safer vaccines?"

 

The Vaccine Safety Commission was formed by concerned scientists, doctors, journalists, and parents. There are too many unanswered questions about the safety of the United States Vaccine Program, and every American citizen deserves to know the truth. We provide the following information for all concerned citizens:

 

50 peer-reviewed, published studies from scientists all over the world that raise grave concerns about the impact vaccines are having on human health. These studies are never cited by the U.S. media, and yet the majority have been published since 2010. These studies alone clearly and unequivocally support the importance of taking a closer look at vaccine safety.

 

A quick review of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, a compensation system set up by the U.S. Government that has paid out settlements in excess of $3 billion for vaccine injury.

 

An overview of the Vaccine Court, the only legal means American citizens have to sue for vaccine injury, a 1986 law made vaccine makers 100% liability free.

 

A summary of the disturbing conflicts of interests at our Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, the governing body in charge of the U.S. Vaccine Program.

 

The AAP sent a letter on February 7, 2017, to President Trump that included a study from a whistleblower scientist at CDC, a wanted felon, and a paper showing that vaccines cause neurological tics. The AAP is a trade union for Pediatricians, who make the majority of their revenues from vaccines (more on that here.)

 

http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/index.html

 

Fuck proper science, go with the tin foil hat brigade

[Jose Jones]

Aggers Elbow, on 12 May 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

 

Fuck proper science, go with the tin foil hat brigade

Might be slightly harsh.

But it is always a bit of a give away when Brits bang on about the CDC or the FDA and also claim to be independent thinkers.

[Red Phoenix]

Fuck proper science, go with the tin foil hat brigade

 

Might be slightly harsh.

But it is always a bit of a give away when Brits bang on about the CDC or the FDA and also claim to be independent thinkers.

 

This is easily one of the most difficult subjects I've seen on here and one that affects us all. Will leave you both to think what you want about what I posted back there (and anyone else who might respond after this) without dragging it out or arguing.

[bigbak]

No calpol? No neurofen?

 

I have a fight with her whenever I want to give him calpol

[bigbak]

By not getting him properly vaccinated you ARE risking everything.

 

I wouldn't win if I had an opinion on it.

[skend04]

Cannot understand what I'm reading here. Adults, who probably take tablets for headaches or fevers and would no doubt take all the prerequisite jabs before going on an overseas holiday, will fight not to give their child the same protection or preventative medication?

 

I'm sorry, but that's fucked up.

[setreal]

This is easily one of the most difficult subjects I've seen on here and one that affects us all. Will leave you both to think what you want about what I posted back there (and anyone else who might respond after this) without dragging it out or arguing.

 

Oh, a new passive-aggressive stance. I like it. Let me try.

 

I really wonder why some people feel the need to post tons of stuff on a football forum - on a topic they have no expertise in whatsoever and know nothing about even fundamentally - merely because they "researched" (=Google) said topic in a fit of boredom and/or substance induced mood and found some quotes that satisfied their confirmation bias. Possibly leading other good members of said forum to take that shit at face value or seed doubt and thereby actually impacting how they treat their actual children in real life. Now to me that appears to be highly irresponsible behaviour.

 

This is aimed at nobody in particular by the way.

[setreal]

Come back Rapey.

[Cardie]

Cannot understand what I'm reading here. Adults, who probably take tablets for headaches or fevers and would no doubt take all the prerequisite jabs before going on an overseas holiday, will fight not to give their child the same protection or preventative medication?

 

I'm sorry, but that's fucked up.

But someone on facebook told them they knew someone who's arm fell of after having vaccinations. Better safe than sorry.

 

If your child is ending up in hospital because of your refusal to seek medical treatment then your names should be going on a list, if your child dies because you refuse look after them properly then then you should face jail (as some have have).

 

Same goes for those who refuse treatment on religious grounds.

[Hades]

Vaccinations should be done, no question, but the furore over it compared to the two shits nobody gives about the poor and disabled of the world being euthanised by capitalism is distasteful.

[Jenson]

I think another issue on this is that a lot of people these days regard diseases such as measles as a minor childhood illness that will come and go, precisely because the success of the vaccine has meant that many have never seen what the full implications of catching measles can be.

Measles can be one actual cunt of a disease, that can and does kill, and should not be taken lightly.

[Cardie]

Vaccinations should be done, no question, but the furore over it compared to the two shits nobody gives about the poor and disabled of the world being euthanised by capitalism is distasteful.

Because it's more personal and it's kids?

 

It's the decision of one or both parents to put a child in danger as opposed to just the big bad of capitalism.

 

It's why a dead baby washing up on the shoreline hits home harder than news stories about faceless groups of people drowning or why the pictures of the syrian boy in an ambulance provokes more outrage than x number of people die in airstrikes.

[bigbak]

Cannot understand what I'm reading here. Adults, who probably take tablets for headaches or fevers and would no doubt take all the prerequisite jabs before going on an overseas holiday, will fight not to give their child the same protection or preventative medication?

 

I'm sorry, but that's fucked up.

 

Have you got kids?

 

If there was the slightest risk your child would be affected negatively by something a lot wouldn't.

 

I've said I'll look to pay for individual jabs.  All these accusations of putting my child at risk can basically  fuck off you jumped up little twats.

[Red Phoenix]

All these accusations of putting my child at risk can basically  fuck off you jumped up little twats.

 

Don't let them wind you up, not worth it. Some are more bothered about their holy govcorp-backed scientific establishment church having a few of its windows smashed and some reform being done to clean things up in this area than they are about looking at genuine concerns. More bothered about creating forum drama than truth, arguments over looking at some of the actual science on the other side of the debate as they pretend that that side doesn't even exist in any credible form. That to me is a lot more irresponsible in the long run.

 

Hope things go well with your kid, and sorry if anything I've posted has caused stress. It's precisely because it's such an important issue that affects kids and all of us that have had to go through these vaccinations that I believe it's important to look at both sides. I know that some of the vaccinations I've had could have saved my life, but I still think the process could've been done safer. I guess that's our current world for you though, we can't even eat some of our food or drink some of our water without having to deal with some of the shit they've affected the environment/water supply/food supply with.

 

I suppose I could take the Hades line on that one and blame capitalism (and cronyism), could be about right actually.