Islamic Positive Thread

[Rotpeter]

Take what you want from it Monty. If you believe that it's skipping over what you know of Sharia Law then you believe it. Like I said the public are scared (for want of a better word) into believing Sharia law is all about draconian measures whereas it's applications, some already used in the UK by the way, are wide ranging. Just because 20 odd % of people asked in a poll said they'd like to see it I'm not going to lose sleep over it like you or Rico.

I don't know if you feel qualified to answer, but what subset of sharia law do you think if implemented would make it as easy for muslims to integrate as say west indians, Sikhs, etc?

[skend04]

I don't know if you feel qualified to answer, but what subset of sharia law do you think if implemented would make it as easy for muslims to integrate as say west indians, Sikhs, etc?

It has nothing to do with implementing Sharia or whichever law they are asked about in opinion polls. As with other poor in society, this is the part of the community that were predominantly interviewed in this ICM poll, it's about improving living standards, work oppurtunity, health and education. Ask the likes of Warsi etc the same questions and you'll get different answers.

 

Id go out on a limb and say if you asked the disenfranchised white British people similar questions (obviously cant ask about apostasy but you could substitute it with say treason) and you'll get outcomes along similar lines. It's divisive bollocks that you need to keep polling one section of society.

 

My question would be how many Muslims do the likes of Rico actually know apart from kebab shop owners? Have they grown up around different cultures or is their view of people exclusively based on opinion polls, curries, Eastenders and holidays in Benidorm?

[cloggypop]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trevor-phillips-research-on-british-muslims-is-dangerous-and-wrong-no-wonder-islamophobia-is-on-the-a6980331.html

[Rotpeter]

It has nothing to do with implementing Sharia or whichever law they are asked about in opinion polls. As with other poor in society, this is the part of the community that were predominantly interviewed in this ICM poll, it's about improving living standards, work oppurtunity, health and education. Ask the likes of Warsi etc the same questions and you'll get different answers.

 

Id go out on a limb and say if you asked the disenfranchised white British people similar questions (obviously cant ask about apostasy but you could substitute it with say treason) and you'll get outcomes along similar lines. It's divisive bollocks that you need to keep polling one section of society.

 

My question would be how many Muslims do the likes of Rico actually know apart from kebab shop owners? Have they grown up around different cultures or is there view of people exclusively based on opinion polls, curries, Eastenders and holidays in Benidorm?

To be honest, I'm not interested in all the spinning being done, by both sides, in this discussion.  I was just wondering because when I was growing up, it seemed fairly apparent that it was easier for west indians to integrate into the local community, likewise nigerians.  For indians it was a bit more difficult, but from what I saw 2nd/3rd generation were more successul in establishing a symbiosis than for example Pakistanis.  I was just interested in your take on how looking at sharia law might affect that

[Rico1304]

It has nothing to do with implementing Sharia or whichever law they are asked about in opinion polls. As with other poor in society, this is the part of the community that were predominantly interviewed in this ICM poll, it's about improving living standards, work oppurtunity, health and education. Ask the likes of Warsi etc the same questions and you'll get different answers.

Id go out on a limb and say if you asked the disenfranchised white British people similar questions (obviously cant ask about apostasy but you could substitute it with say treason) and you'll get outcomes along similar lines. It's divisive bollocks that you need to keep polling one section of society.

My question would be how many Muslims do the likes of Rico actually know apart from kebab shop owners? Have they grown up around different cultures or is their view of people exclusively based on opinion polls, curries, Eastenders and holidays in Benidorm?

Going for the man again?

 

I work in Leeds, have worked in Manchester both with huge Muslim communities. I play cricket in a league that is ethnically diverse and share a dressing room with Billal every week in summer. But as has been said a million times by Stu the guys we interact with on a daily basis aren't the ones we should be worried about.

 

I'm a bit annoyed by that to be honest, not having a go at me - that's like water off a ducks back. But the implication that you are better than me and pigeon holing me. Supercilious cunt. There, I feel better now.

[skend04]

Going for the man again?

 

I work in Leeds, have worked in Manchester both with huge Muslim communities. I play cricket in a league that is ethnically diverse and share a dressing room with Billal every week in summer. But as has been said a million times by Stu the guys we interact with on a daily basis aren't the ones we should be worried about.

 

I'm a bit annoyed by that to be honest, not having a go at me - that's like water off a ducks back. But the implication that you are better than me and pigeon holing me. Supercilious cunt. There, I feel better now.

Ha, you don't watch spy movies? It's the ones in plain sight, Mr Khan at at the chippy and the like that you need to worry about.

[Rico1304]

Interesting article on it.

 

http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2016/04/12/muslim-social-attitudes-we-need-to-rethink-multiculturalism

[Strontium]

My question would be how many Muslims do the likes of Rico actually know apart from kebab shop owners? Have they grown up around different cultures or is their view of people exclusively based on opinion polls, curries, Eastenders and holidays in Benidorm?

 

Are you suggesting that anecdotal evidence is worth more than serious academic surveys?

[Stu Monty]

Are you suggesting that anecdotal evidence is worth more than serious academic surveys?

 

Yes he is; repeatedly. Which is deeply fucking annoying. As is the subtle suggestion of racism to fill the void where a coherent argument should sit.

 

It's especially annoying when it is continually re-stated that the Muslims that we do know here are actually a really poor representation of the wider global population and hold much more "progressive" views that cannot be extrapolated out across the globe. The same would probably be true of global Christians too.

[Anubis]

Going for the man again?

 

I work in Leeds, have worked in Manchester both with huge Muslim communities. I play cricket in a league that is ethnically diverse and share a dressing room with Billal every week in summer. But as has been said a million times by Stu the guys we interact with on a daily basis aren't the ones we should be worried about.

 

I'm a bit annoyed by that to be honest, not having a go at me - that's like water off a ducks back. But the implication that you are better than me and pigeon holing me. Supercilious cunt. There, I feel better now.

 

In fairness, saying you've worked in Manchester and Leeds is not the same as saying you've lived or worked in a predominantly Muslim area within those cities. I say that as somebody who worked in Longsight for four years, which is a predominantly Muslim area.

[Anubis]

Yes he is; repeatedly. Which is deeply fucking annoying. As is the subtle suggestion of racism to fill the void where a coherent argument should sit.

 

It's especially annoying when it is continually re-stated that the Muslims that we do know here are actually a really poor representation of the wider global population and hold much more "progressive" views that cannot be extrapolated out across the globe. The same would probably be true of global Christians too.

So what do you want to do about it Stu? You must have thought about it. What are your solutions?

[Rico1304]

In fairness, saying you've worked in Manchester and Leeds is not the same as saying you've lived or worked in a predominantly Muslim area within those cities. I say that as somebody who worked in Longsight for four years, which is a predominantly Muslim area.

I've worked in buildings that were call centres/ops centres in those areas - so I'd say it does. They recruit from the local areas so we are talking Harpurhey, Collyhurst and Armley in Leeds.

[Stu Monty]

So what do you want to do about it Stu? You must have thought about it. What are your solutions?

 

I reckon that people who claim to be progressives could start by not cowering away from reality, misguidedly thinking they are helping people. They could stand shoulder to shoulder with the more "progressive" Muslims that are willing to accept that huge reform is needed in their religion and that there are deeply, deeply worrying problems. Often that have had to flee from the very extremes of culture that people will then tell them is just supported by a minority.

 

On a larger scale you'd need to be looking at whether you think allying yourself with nations, and/or factions in those nations, that promote wahabism or the least progressive ideas around is the right thing to do. Whether you start to make policy that incentivises moving away from middle aged attitudes towards women other than towards them. Which in itself then acts as an economic stimulus for people choosing path A over path B.

 

I'm not even pretending that it's an easy problem to fix, especially given the huge scale of the problem. I'd just like conversations that basically accept that the problem exists, rather than pretending that it doesn't. People need to be able to differentiate from large groups of people being tarred with the extreme views of a few people (a big problem) and large groups of people being criticised for them actually having the views themselves.

[skend04]

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/04/12/zac-goldsmith-accused-of-running-racist-campaign

 

If the country's politicians are going to use the 'extremist' card against a 'mainstream' muslim I wonder what Trevor Phillips's next poll will show...

[Strontium]

Sadiq Khan does have a history of associating with some fairly unsavoury characters,

 

However I'd probably vote for Osama bin Laden if the only alternative was Zac Goldsmith.

[skend04]

Sadiq Khan does have a history of associating with some fairly unsavoury characters,

 

However I'd probably vote for Osama bin Laden if the only alternative was Zac Goldsmith.

Zac has the current London Mayor saying this on his behalf:

 

Johnson has also targeted Khan’s links with a south London imam, Sulaiman Ghani, saying that he had “denounced gays...

 

BoJo appears to have forgotten his own views on gay people.

[Rico1304]

Zac has the current London Mayor saying this on his behalf:

 

Johnson has also targeted Khan’s links with a south London imam, Sulaiman Ghani, saying that he had “denounced gays...

 

BoJo appears to have forgotten his own views on gay people.

What did he say?

[skend04]

What did he say?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-gay-people-like-me-shouldnt-listen-to-boris-johnson-and-his-calls-for-us-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu-a6951916.html

[Rico1304]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-gay-people-like-me-shouldnt-listen-to-boris-johnson-and-his-calls-for-us-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu-a6951916.html

Ha, looks like he's been forgiven by the gays.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Sadiq Khan does have a history of associating with some fairly unsavoury characters,

 

 

What associations with unsavoury characters did you have in mind?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

No surprise to the The Scum - and their Cunt-in-Chief - leaping on that survey, to misrepresent it to incite racial hatred.

 

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/04/12/sun-just-incited-religious-hatred-got-destroyed-twitter-tweets/

[skend04]

No surprise to the The Scum - and their Cunt-in-Chief - leaping on that survey, to misrepresent it to incite racial hatred.

 

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/04/12/sun-just-incited-religious-hatred-got-destroyed-twitter-tweets/

It's always life affirming when you realise you share not a single iota of rhetoric with this oxygen thief.

[VladimirIlyich]

Quite frankly I couldnt give a fuck as the biggest danger to me and people like me are the cunts who wear suits,work out of choice so as to protect their inheritances and preach the language of hate while actually doing millions in business with those we are all supposed to hate.

I am just about old enough to remember how this type of hatred and diversionary blame was heaped upon West Indians and Africans as well as Indians,Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Same shit in a different era. Almost as if we are supposed to focus our hatred towards stuff we knew even less about until the last twenty years or so.

[PestiRed]

Over 70m tall, over 800 years old. Say what you like but these lads know how to build themselves a good minaret

 

[skend04]

Quite frankly I couldnt give a fuck as the biggest danger to me and people like me are the cunts who wear suits,work out of choice so as to protect their inheritances and preach the language of hate while actually doing millions in business with those we are all supposed to hate.

I am just about old enough to remember how this type of hatred and diversionary blame was heaped upon West Indians and Africans as well as Indians,Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Same shit in a different era. Almost as if we are supposed to focus our hatred towards stuff we knew even less about until the last twenty years or so.

Dave needs to sort the mobile site. I'm unable to rep this post which hits the nail on the head.