Adam Lallana

[Lightforce]

Either a player who'd going to elevate us to the title or part of the answer to the quiz question "Name Liverpools three biggest domestic signing mistakes"

I'm soooo going for the latter on that one. Part of the reason is that the teams we're competing with have players in the position he plays that are already better than him. They also didn't cost as much as him. So they've won on all counts. Time to move on to a target who has world class potential, not somebody who's good but not excellent and is as good as he'll ever be. Technically good, quite creative but low scoring, inconsistent, not physical, shit hipster haircut. Similar to Coutinho in a lot of ways, difference is Lallana doesn't have time on his side to become much better than he is now. Not a 30 million footballer ever. Ever ever ever ever ever. 

[TheHowieLama]

Stu - you have moved the posts imo. What I said, and I think what Section agreed with is there are certain core physical attributes that are genetic and by and large cannot be substantially improved upon. Fast guys can be made a little faster, fast feet can be made a little faster, fast minds can be made a little faster, that's it. You have said so yourself.

 

You took it on yourself to extrapolate that through a players career. 

 

Nobody, and Moofs post above attests to this, is suggesting that the best players (more often than not blessed with one, or more, of the genetic attributes discussed) with the best coaching come out good.

What has been said is you can coach Alberto til you are blue in the face and he will never run past players - you agreed with this as well. 

 

There is no argument.

[Gnasher]

I'm soooo going for the latter on that one. Part of the reason is that the teams we're competing with have players in the position he plays that are already better than him. They also didn't cost as much as him. So they've won on all counts. Time to move on to a target who has world class potential, not somebody who's good but not excellent and is as good as he'll ever be. Technically good, quite creative but low scoring, inconsistent, not physical, shit hipster haircut. Similar to Coutinho in a lot of ways, difference is Lallana doesn't have time on his side to become much better than he is now. Not a 30 million footballer ever. Ever ever ever ever ever.

 

Lallana scored more goals than any Chelsea player and also scored more than any Spurs player, Lemela cost a fortune, He also scored more than Fellaini and Mata.

[Boss]

Lallana scored more goals than any Chelsea player and also scored more than any Spurs player, Lemela cost a fortune, He also scored more than Fellaini and Mata.

 

 

"You've come to the wrong thread, this Adam Lallana which you speak of is elsewhere, only discussions on nature vs nurture and darwinian principles of evolutionary genetics exist here."

[Major Tom]

Not sure I agree with that.

 

I am with you in this argument but I think you're wrong here. Genius, by its very definition, can;t be taught,

[dennis tooth]

That's fine, of course, but when you see a player like Luis Suarez do you think

 

"Bloody hell, he must have had good coaching over the years"

 

Or

 

"What he's got can't be taught"

 

For me it's the second one, but maybe I'm just a romantic.

 

Your point only proves mine, how hard does luis work? How strong is his motivation?

Genetic? Nobody is predisposed to anything, a long limb might help get the ball or might cause you to lose balance more easily, its about what you can do to counter a weakness.

[dennis tooth]

From other quotes it looks like Tooth has gone from denying it's existence to saying Carroll has it.

Ahh come back and you are here still talking about me. Obsession by calvin klein.

[dennis tooth]

Stu has muddied the waters by not knowing where to approach the issue and getting bogged down in diversions starting to go into coaching, if they are at an academy anywhere then they will have benefitted from the role model figure, father mother, brother, adopter whatever that has took an interest in them to get to the level of academy, this is what I am talking about, not what coaching they get in some academy this is earlier on in most cases. 

Its no inate abiliity the fowlers had better figures, that got them crazy about footy to make it at all costs, they arent born with anything more than you or I, often they have less, they feel inferior and work to cover their apparent weakness. 

[Section_31]

Just don't get the fixation with English players for top dollar. Same goes for Barclay, amusing as it would be to piss the bitters off he's still done nothing in the game to warrent the kind of cash he'd command.

 

These players are decent but they're never going to be world class or come anywhere close to it.

 

A few years ago we had players like Mascherano and Alonso in the midfield, that's the kind of quality we should be looking for again.

 

The thing with half decent players is you don't realise they're half decent until they're up against top class ones and then you just get your heart ripped out watching them chase shadows.

 

Reminds me of when Ince reckoned him and Redknapp were the best midfield partnership in Europe and they went up against Zidane and Petit against France, and it looked like Stevie Wonder trying to fight Zorro.

 

Was the same when we got beat by Chelsea in the FA Cup under Kenny, it was the most soul destroying thing I've ever seen because our midfield were trying, they were just inferior and it was taking them 10 passes to do what the Chelsea pair were doing in 2.

 

If we could pull it off, I bet some would be happy to see us spunk 50 million on Barclay and Lallana, possibly more, and they'd get absolutely torn apart by a Barca or a Juventus, absolutely ripped open.

 

Nationality and hard work will never trump genetics, say no to expensive British players.

 

 

I haven't moved the goalposts at all, read it in the context of the full post, it's perfectly obvious what I was getting at. The entire post was about limited, hard working players being no substitute for world class talent. Nowhere in the post does it make mention of the likes of a lazy Xabi Alonso or a Zidane with severe food poisoning being better players than an extremely hard working and thoroughly affable Jamie Redknapp who's been trained by ninjas.

 

How can you be so obtuse?

 

Obtuse?

[dennis tooth]

Did he fuck.

 

Just to clarify, mostly for the mong who has me on ignore but follows every move I make on here, Im talking when he first pitched up at Newcastles academy, his problem has always been motivation, he clearly didnt improve didnt get himself in proper shape and thought he had made it, his size and Newcastles relegation circumstances as well as the way they played got the most out of him but you could see when he came through he had massive parts of his game that should have been developed but he never bothered because it all seemed too much work when your already on 50k a weekand again he came to us, thought he'd made it and actually went backwards and is still doing so, cos the days when he could tank up and get up for training are becoming less frequent.

 

Im not saying he isnt shit, he had the ability but not the application, Ive seen him hit shots with such power and precision you wouldnt even see from say Suarez who isnt blessed with that powerful shot but its few and far between because theres no comparison whose the better player as luis cant fail to improve due to his application level, how some people are holding Suarez up as an example of 'natural' ability when you can see how fucking hard he works, he is where is is because of that. He has the love of the game, it cant be taught but it can be passed on, genius cant be taught like a snowflake you can create the conditions for its perfect formation, theres no DNA in that its no genetic.

[INTORRESTING]

Lallana doesnt finish many matches, gets subbed a lot

[The Golden Eel]

Lallana doesnt finish many matches, gets subbed a lot

It's possibly genetics.

[J-V]

It's possibly genetics.

 

I reckon he tires himself out doing so many sprints in each game.

[The Golden Eel]

I reckon he tires himself out doing so many sprints in each game.

I think it's because his mum always used to let him off doing only two thirds of the dishes

[Jairzinho]

I think it's because his mumford always used to let him off doing only two thirds of the dishes

 

Fixed.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Either a player who'd going to elevate us to the title or part of the answer to the quiz question "Name Liverpools three biggest domestic signing mistakes"

 

Not a chance he beats out Cole or Downing to get onto that list, thankfully.

[JohnnyH]

Not a chance he beats out Cole or Downing to get onto that list, thankfully.

Imagine writing that and not including the single biggest transfer mistake in world football ever, never mind domestically.

[Major Tom]

You don't need to mention it.

[Kevin D]

People on here complaining that this thread has turned into Charles Benedict Davenport's* wet dream will wish it stayed that way in 36 hours time; the second Lallana steps onto the pitch, this thread will turn into a war zone.

 

 

*Uh, the father of eugenics. Seriously guys, read a book.

[Stu Monty]

I haven't moved the goalposts at all, read it in the context of the full post, it's perfectly obvious what I was getting at. The entire post was about limited, hard working players being no substitute for world class talent. Nowhere in the post does it make mention of the likes of a lazy Xabi Alonso or a Zidane with severe food poisoning being better players than an extremely hard working and thoroughly affable Jamie Redknapp who's been trained by ninjas.

 

How can you be so obtuse?

 

Obtuse?

 

I know it doesn't Mark, that's one of the main things I'm saying to you: you seem to only see the "talent" that is being used and are ignoring the talent that isn't. It's not being obtuse it's just that your last sentence, the sign-off on the post, is just not true. So it was worth discussion.

 

If this isn't a nature v nurture discussion then fair enough. I just thought that you were getting at more than the fact that world class players are better than limited ones. Kind of goes without saying really. They're the ones who had the "talent" or "genetics" and used it. Unlike the many that had it and didn't, and were trumped by less talented players with effort.

[Boss]

Genetically theres nothing special about Suarez or Messi if you look at it from that point of view...

 

Messi's only genetic advantage is his low centre of gravity which through hard work he's maximised to great effect. As far as genetics go, they had to give him HGH injections as a kid otherwise he'd of been about 5 foot tall, so his genetics were actually counter productive to him succeeding. Without modern medical assistance his genetics would of stopped him from being a great player, therefore they were actually pretty shitty.

 

Suarez genetically again is nothing special, low centre of gravity, good balance because of that, but thats as far as his genetic advantage goes. It's his mentality which is his greatest strength. if he was a boxer he'd be Rocky Marciano, never takes a backward step, just keeps coming until you eventually give up. Whenever i try and describe Suarez it's always about his mentality i.e. "he's relentless, he never gives up, chases lost causes, he'll do anything to win" these are not physical traits. Suarez is were he is because mentally he's superior to virtually any player on the planet, combine that with a ferocious work ethic and it's obvious to see why he's were he is.

 

Ronaldo is the most genetically gifted of the three, but he still works equally as hard as the other two. His genetics have given him tremendous pace, but the physique and strength he's built is through thousands of hours in the gym because he was like a rake in his Sporting days.

 

So how much does the role of genetics actually play in making a top player? i don't think it's that much.

[TheHowieLama]

Two of the players in the world with the quickest feet. Having incredibly quick feet is genetic. So is hand/foot eye coordination. Fast twitch is similar to pace, you have what you have, can only be improved incrementally.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Genetics plays a part but only in the tiniest of margins everything else is nurture. Robbie fowler said his dad had him kicking a ball against a wall with his weakest foot for hours. Jimmi hendricks used to take his guitar for a shit with him he was that obsessed. Brilliance is born of obsession and practice throw in some natural ability and a bit of good fortune and jobs a goodun. Well..... In my opinion. Maybe its none of those things maybe god actually makes people like you do in computer games so derren brown has high magic and art skills but shit vitality and strength.

[Boss]

Two of the players in the world with the quickest feet. Having incredibly quick feet is genetic. So is hand/foot eye coordination. Fast twitch is similar to pace, you have what you have, can only be improved incrementally.

 

Taarabt, Ben Arfa, Quaresma, even Assaidi's got really quick feet, but it doesn't make you a great footballer

[Stu Monty]

Two of the players in the world with the quickest feet. Having incredibly quick feet is genetic. So is hand/foot eye coordination. Fast twitch is similar to pace, you have what you have, can only be improved incrementally.

 

You're making out that this is predetermined to a ridiculous level. 

 

There will be loads of lads with exactly the same raw materials, and some with probably even more than, Messi. He isn't a fucking X-man.

 

Ben Arfa has amazingly quick feet. 

 

Almost as if Ronaldo and Messi being amazing trainers with top level application is actually the thing that separates them from him.