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The Rugby Thread

Rapey Hugh

By Rapey Hugh,
in GF - General Forum

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Dougie Do'ins
Dougie Do'ins

Six Nations starts this weekend. Been trying for years to get tickets to watch England at Twickenham but they're rarer than rocking horse shite sprinkled in fairy dust. Had to make do with the next be

Gnasher
Gnasher

.One of the greatest rugby players of all time passes away. Incredible player for Llanelli, Wales, The British Lions and the Barbarians. A genius on the field and a true gentleman off it.   

lifetime fan
lifetime fan

Borthwick was a terrible appointment. Crap, boring, uninventive rugby that’s easy to defend against.     Said to the missus straight away he’ll go after a terrible World Cup.    The bigg

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Josef Svejk Grand Master

Josef Svejk

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12 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:


Borthwick was a terrible appointment. Crap, boring, uninventive rugby that’s easy to defend against.  
 

Said to the missus straight away he’ll go after a terrible World Cup. 
 

The biggest challenge is getting rid of the boring old farts at the RFU. 

 

He also has the personality of a fence post... 

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CapeRed Proficient

CapeRed

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On 10/10/2022 at 01:19, lifetime fan said:


He came across really well on Carra’s podcast too. 

I couldn’t believe how big he is . I met him as the Lions were leaving Newlands after the 97 test and he signed the collar of my Lions shirt . After a night on the lash I woke the next morning to my missus telling me she had managed to clean the black marks off my shirt collar !!

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lifetime fan Grand Master

lifetime fan

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1 hour ago, CapeRed said:

I couldn’t believe how big he is . I met him as the Lions were leaving Newlands after the 97 test and he signed the collar of my Lions shirt . After a night on the lash I woke the next morning to my missus telling me she had managed to clean the black marks off my shirt collar !!


He’s fucking massive. Lovely bloke. 

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Pidge Grand Master

Pidge

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Just caught the highlights. Got to love a golden boy captain that simultaneously manages to be an entitled, spoiled prick and have a massive chip on his shoulder. Utter shithouse tackle from someone scared of taking fair contact. Rising up into his chin. Shouldn't be available for the pools. Idiot.

 

Happened when we'd moved him back to centre, despite it being relatively balanced for a while when we had him in his actual position. 

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Gnasher Grand Master

Gnasher

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43 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"He could run through a field of daffodils and not disturb a petal" Carwyn James. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2360340/Barry-John-the-greatest-Lion-of-them-all.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hoping this link is not paywall. Great old article by Irish rugby writer Mark Reason this. What a fabulous player.

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2360340/Barry-John-the-greatest-Lion-of-them-all.html

 

 

 

 

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Gnasher Grand Master

Gnasher

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Still reeling over this one down here.

 

191 points!  by the old scoring method. His boots look great. You don't get christened 'the king' when in New Zealand if you were not something very very special. One of a kind indeed.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/05/one-of-a-kind-sir-gareth-edwards-hails-fellow-wales-legend-barry-john

 

 

 

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The wanderer Contributor

The wanderer

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23 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

 

 

 

Sad to see how Welsh rugby has fallen behind . Back in the 70s as a young techie I was sent down to Cardiff, from Liverpool, working at Ely Telephone Exchange. On my 2nd day there the head man comes up to me and says “ me and the boys are having a game at lunchtime, do you want to join us ?” Yeah of course I said nearly fell over backwards when I went out at 1 o’clock to find out we were just going to run up and down the yard passing a rugby ball back and forth . Lovely people there took me to a great night at the Double Diamond club Caerphilly .

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Gnasher Grand Master

Gnasher

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48 minutes ago, The wanderer said:

Sad to see how Welsh rugby has fallen behind . Back in the 70s as a young techie I was sent down to Cardiff, from Liverpool, working at Ely Telephone Exchange. On my 2nd day there the head man comes up to me and says “ me and the boys are having a game at lunchtime, do you want to join us ?” Yeah of course I said nearly fell over backwards when I went out at 1 o’clock to find out we were just going to run up and down the yard passing a rugby ball back and forth . Lovely people there took me to a great night at the Double Diamond club Caerphilly .

 

Bloody hell the Double Diamond. That was a rough old place. A bit before my time  

 

I knew Barry a little but then he was so gracious with his time so did most of the people in Cardiff. He was always around the city centre streets and bars. Always willing to have a photo or offer advice to the younger sports enthusiasts or chatting with starstruck away fans who approached him and plenty did approach him. He was a lovely man.

 

 

I remember a few years back we were in the same city centre pub having a bet on the horse racing and Beckham was being interviewed on the pubs other TV for some celebrity bullshit. Beckham and Barry John were total opposites. Beckham, unapproachable and drunk on the fame. John shunned the fame, didn't sit with him. Living Beckhams life would have been like hell to him. Down here we know which one of the pair was blessed with the most talent.

 

Wales are playing at Twickenham Saturday. Wonder if they'll give him a minutes silence. Shame we haven't got Ireland down here. They'd have gave him one hell of a send off, its all a bit flat down here, but there you go. Nevermind.

 

I've posted it futher up and I make no apologies in posting it again but this writer in the Irish Telegraph describes his mythical status perfectly. 

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2360340/Barry-John-the-greatest-Lion-of-them-all.html

 

 

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The wanderer Contributor

The wanderer

Posted
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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Bloody hell the Double Diamond. That was a rough old place. A bit before my time  

 

I knew Barry a little but then he was so gracious with his time so did most of the people in Cardiff. He was always around the city centre streets and bars. Always willing to have a photo or offer advice to the younger sports enthusiasts or chatting with starstruck away fans who approached him and plenty did approach him. He was a lovely man.

 

 

I remember a few years back we were in the same city centre pub having a bet on the horse racing and Beckham was being interviewed on the pubs other TV for some celebrity bullshit. Beckham and Barry John were total opposites. Beckham, unapproachable and drunk on the fame. John shunned the fame, didn't sit with him. Living Beckhams life would have been like hell to him. Down here we know which one of the pair was blessed with the most talent.

 

Wales are playing at Twickenham Saturday. Wonder if they'll give him a minutes silence. Shame we haven't got Ireland down here. They'd have gave him one hell of a send off, its all a bit flat down here, but there you go. Nevermind.

 

I've posted it futher up and I make no apologies in posting it again but this writer in the Irish Telegraph describes his mythical status perfectly. 

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2360340/Barry-John-the-greatest-Lion-of-them-all.html

 

 

That article is behind a pay wall unfortunately.

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Gnasher Grand Master

Gnasher

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1 hour ago, The wanderer said:

That article is behind a pay wall unfortunately.

Barry John: the greatest Lion of them all

 

 

Barry John

The sun was setting over South Africa's Kruger National Park and the skyline was as red as Andy Ripley's back. A large group of British Lions were sitting round the main table playing a drinking game called 'Thumper' that was hard to understand, but which seemed like the greatest game ever invented. The face of Mervyn Davies was shrouded beneath a floppy hat and 48 hours of stubble. He never seemed to lose. To an 11-year-old boy in 1974 these men were gods.

 

Barry John

Was any one of the gods sitting round that table the greatest Lion ever? Probably only an 11-year-old boy could really give you an answer worth having because the Lions do not conform to the usual weights and measures that calibrate sporting achievement. The Lions deal in wonderment. They are about a deeper magic that journalists have long since forgotten.

John Dawes, the centre who played for Wales through much of the Sixties, was a very good passer of the ball. John Dawes, the Welshman who captained the Lions in 1971, was an almost mythical person. It would be no great surprise to find out that he actually didn't exist.

Willie John McBride, the captain of the unbeaten Lions in 1974, did exist - unmistakeably so. Perhaps he was more of a man than a rugby player, but he was always there. He was there when the Lions went to South Africa in 1962 and he was still there when they returned 12 years later. But when Willie John walked the planet, Frik du Preez and Colin Meads were both more revered forwards. McBride had longevity and presence, but he never breathed the magic that the greatest Lion must surely have.

Nor did Martin Johnson. He was another presence and perhaps a more athletic forward than McBride. But Johnson is a modern-day Meads without the charisma and the range of ball skills. He is a player you respect rather than admire. It's not enough.

That seems true of many of the forwards. Richard Hill played in the first two Tests in 1997 and the opening Test and a half in 2001. Each time he left the field the Lions were ahead. Dean Richards was more of a cult figure than Hill, but just as respected by his peers on the 1989 and 1993 tours and just as influential. But both men are shadows. They play like ghosts in the machine. Our hero needs to be more dramatic. The greatest Lion has to be the stuff of which dreams are made.

He has to come from the early Seventies when rugby players were known by their first names or their set of initials. He could be JPR, if only JPR Williams had been a slightly more dazzling athlete. He could be TGR, but Gerald Davies was not in a position to dominate. He could be CMH, but Mike Gibson was a little too self-contained. He could be Phil, except for too long Phil Bennett was second best.

He is none of those, because the greatest Lion of all can only be one of two men. I suspect that most people's choice would be Gareth Edwards. Gibson, who went on three Lions tours with Edwards, calls him "Enormous. It is the strength of the man that sets him apart and his determination. He was just a competitor who preferred victory."

Before the third Test in New Zealand in 1971 it had been feared that the man who preferred victory would not be fit to play. Edwards not only played, he almost uprooted Bob Burgess's head from his neck with a ferocious hand-off that led to a try.

Three years later Edwards had become the leader of the Lions, if not their captain. The Lions forwards dominated in South Africa, but it was Edwards's powerful tactical kicking that was the articulation of that dominance.

One England forward watching the first Test from the stands said, "Where would we be without Gareth. The man's just magic. I can't clap him or anything when I watch him play. I just sit there with my mouth open. Reverse passes, 30-yard passes, brilliant kicks under pressure, strength, guts, tackle, speed - the lot. When he throws the ball out at Twickenham, it would finish up at London airport if Phil Bennett didn't stop it."

 

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Such a magic man would have to be the greatest Lion ever, if only one other man, possessed of a deeper magic, didn't stand apart. He spent his whole playing career standing apart. There was no one to touch him. One New Zealand flanker said of him: "Barry John rolled his eyes and I fell over." Mike Gibson admits that he has a romantic hankering for the backline of 1959, for players such as Peter Jackson, Bev Risman and Tony O'Reilly, but then he returns to Barry John. Gibson says wryly, "B is for brilliant, A is for artistic..." and lets you finish the rest.

"He was the name of the 1971 tour. His control of the game and his composure influenced all the other players. They're very important assets at the highest level. His brain operated at a speed that would allow him to do all the things he wanted to do.

"It's not something you would be aware of just viewing the match, but if you experienced playing with him, being in his company, he had a marked influence on players, even on the forwards who had a complete faith in what the backline was going to do. In the most difficult circumstances he was in control. Why should I worry?"

Barry John could do so many things that no player has done before or since. Like a boxer stepping inside to throw a punch he would come in to take an opponent's space in the subtlest of manners and leave him confused. He stole people's time.

Rodney Webb, the man who developed the modern rugby ball, also believes that John was the greatest kicker of all time. These days the balls are coated in a laminate used on the hulls of giant oil tankers, have dimpled surfaces, unobtrusive lacing and multi panels. In the Seventies they soaked up water, swerved all over the place and were placed in the mud and slime when kicking for goal.

Webb, who played for England between 1967 and 1972, says: "Barry John's punting was phenomenal. He could drop the ball on a sixpence and he could do it every time. He was a genius at reading a game as well, and his goal kicking was so accurate that he didn't just break all the records when the Lions toured in New Zealand in 1971, he smashed them. All these improvements [in the ball] help the kickers of today to such an extent that comparisons in their favour are heavily loaded. Even so I am absolutely certain that Barry John is still King. What a player."

Before the first Test in New Zealand John was instructed by coach Carwyn James to give full-back Fergie McCormick a hard time. Each time McCormick thought he had the ball it would drift just out of reach. Time and again he was deceived. John made McCormick look silly, which he certainly wasn't. But McCormick didn't play again in the series, just as James and John had intended all along. He didn't play again for New Zealand.

During that 1971 tour a group of local evangelists were walking about with billboards asking the question, "What would you do if Jesus Christ came back to earth?" The locals used to answer over a beer, "Put him on the wing and put Bryan Williams in the centre." But after Barry John had passed through town the word was, "The Lions have already got Him and He's playing fly-half."

Gareth Edwards was an astonishing physical presence, but he was recognisable as living on the human extremes of great athleticism. John's presence was more ephemeral. He did things that you couldn't quite understand.

Then, right at the peak of his powers, he retired. A year or two later he gave a Tonga badge to a little boy sitting on the concrete steps of the old Cardiff Arms Park. It felt like gold. The king was gone, but the magic remained. And it is the magic that makes Barry John the greatest Lion of all time.

 
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