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New manager, new expectations.

Code

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in FF - Football Forum

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Mr T Experienced

Mr T

Posted
Posted
This is how the table looked like at the time:

 

3. Tottenham 24 15 5 4 44-25 50p

4. Chelsea 24 12 7 5 44-29 43p

5. Newcastle 24 12 6 6 36-31 42p

6. Arsenal 24 12 4 8 46-34 40p

7. Liverpool 24 10 9 5 28-21 39p

 

Then 7 games later it looked like this and our league season was over and if I'm perfectly honest this period is why people say we had such a poor season last year and its why Kenny got sacked even if during it we won the League Cup, beat our neighbours 3-0 and advanced from the quarter final fo the FA Cup.

 

3. Arsenal 31 18 4 9 62-41 58p ( +18p )

4. Tottenham 31 17 7 7 56-36 58p ( +8p )

5. Chelsea 31 15 8 8 53-36 53p ( +10p )

6. Newcastle 31 15 8 8 46-42 53p ( +11p )

7. Everton 31 12 7 12 32-32 43p ( +13p )

8. Liverpool 31 11 9 11 36-33 42p ( +3p )

 

and to put it even more into perspective this is how it ended up.

 

3. Arsenal 38 21 7 10 74-49 70p ( +12p )

4. Tottenham 38 20 9 9 66-41 69p (+11p )

5. Newcastle 38 19 8 11 56-51 65p (+12p )

6. Chelsea 38 18 10 10 65-46 64p ( +11p )

7. Everton 38 15 11 12 50-40 56p (13p )

8. Liverpool 38 14 10 14 47-40 52p ( +10p )

 

So in the end of the season we picked up approx the same points as the five teams ahead of us in the table even if we had secured European football already and had a FA Cup semi final and final to concentrate on inbetween.

 

Seeing as we had no chance of getting 3rd or 4th who can blame the management for those priorities?

 

So basically we have people writing off our full league season last year based on a period of 7 games when we in the same period won our first trophy in 6 years and now many of these same people get their knickers in twist because someone dare to ask a few questions about our worst start to a league season in over 100 years with two losses at Anfield before September ends.

 

I would laugh if it was not so fuckin sad.

 

How can this be any clearer. We came 8th with 52 points.

 

We did worse than our competitors in the first 24 games, in the next 7 games and in the next 7 games after that. 7 other teams did better than us over 38 games, including teams that had spent a pittance compared to us. We were losing ground on our competitors, the gap between us was increasing. We were getting worse and worse.

 

For some clarity on why Rodgers is cut a little bit more slack:

a) He didn't have a 6 month bedding in period

b) He hasn't been allowed to spend all sorts of money on whatever takes his fancy.

c) He is new to the club

d) He is only 5 games into the season.

e) He is young.

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Ranxerox Grand Master

Ranxerox

Posted
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I think you have to look at this entire situation in the context of the new ownership. If FSG are to be believed (and I'm trying hard not to be cynical) then this year I think marks the first year of their era. The first 18 months were for better or worse nothing more than coasting on previous momentum.

 

Thus

 

FSG won't measure Rodgers on "going back from last year's results in the table" but rather they will measure him on progress towards FSG's model of low wage, low transfer and youth.

 

Next season he will be expected to improve from wherever we finish this year. So one may as well throw out all notions of measuring Rodgers against what Dalglish, or Hodgson, or Benitez had built. We're starting from scratch.

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Code Grand Master

Code

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If you look at the calendar year of 2012 where we have 2 home victories and sit 19th in the table then it won't take much for Rodgers to improve us....

 

But why would anyone do that unless they were a complete idiot?

 

Its just as relevant as who are leading the first 10 km of a marathon, in other words it means fuck all.

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Dr. J Mentor

Dr. J

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I can't see us doing much better than 8th. It's clear that the owners have taken the weight off Rodgers by saying they don't expect 4th place and competing with the bitters for 6th place and more Europa League action just doesn't seem very appealing.

 

Seems the plan is to play the younger players and make the club attractive to kids who want to get a chance, instead of rotting away on the bench for a top four club. Unless we get a massive infusion of mad sheikh cash that seems the only option available at the moment, and maybe it's not so bad.

 

We spent poorly, unwisely and will not have another spending surge for some time, if ever. In the meantime, play the kids and make the club a magnet for talented young players who don't get much playing time elsewhere.

 

I reckon there's still some dross to move on, too.

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myrlas Community Regular

myrlas

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WBA away. Started well, red card and two penalties against. Lost

City home - Played well. Skrtel. Lost 2 points.

ManU home - started well. Red card, penalty against. Lost.

 

There's a fine line between success and failure. Sorting out stupid personal mistakes would be a good start.

 

We lost against Arsenal fair and square. We "should" have won against Sunderland and City.

 

Would the same debate find place if we had 6 points? Maybe, but not in the same way, that's for sure.

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moof Grand Master

moof

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But why would anyone do that unless they were a complete idiot?

 

Its just as relevant as who are leading the first 10 km of a marathon, in other words it means fuck all.

 

It doesn't mean fuck all, our 2012 form is the reason Kenny was sacked.

 

The league season can be equated to a marathon, so it doesn't really matter what we've done so far in terms of results as long as the performances have been good (which they have) and the players are showing a bit of fight and determination (which they are). Basically, making a judgement after 5 games is a bit short sighted. As long as the results start rolling in soon (which they will) all is well.

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Major Tom Grand Master

Major Tom

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I think they've made that abundantly clear. I'm open to hearing a different take on things though.

 

No, they haven't.

 

They have made it abundantly clear they not going to chuck money at dross any more. And should be applauded for it.

 

Look at the Redsox model. What makes you think they will Liverpool any differently?

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myrlas Community Regular

myrlas

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Ordinarily, one would assume this to be some sort of clever joke, but given that you do indeed appear to have all the mental acuity of a fucking stick, I have to assume you are being serious.

 

Just fyi, you honking spack-bucket, Benitez's Liverpool scored 8 goals in a Champions League game - yes, a proper one! Against a proper team! - in a record victory that has still to be equalled.

 

Liverpool 8 - Besiktas 0

 

And as far as away games go, I think perhaps beating Real Madrid 1-0 in the Bernabeu, on the way to an aggregate 5-0 victory, perhaps ranks slightly higher than a victory against Young Boys of Switzerland in a second-rate competition.

 

In short: shut the fuck up.

 

Haha. Why so sensitive? Tell me about Rafa's (let's go out and win 8-0 away against proper teams) tactics/approach on a regular basis then. Or tell me about the approach against Real. It was of course to keep it tight and hope to snatch a win (anything else would be madness). I said look BEHIND the results. Not pick out a result or two to suit your lousy argument. I'm not comparing Rodgers to Benitez by the way. I'm telling you that Rodgers has to pick up the pieces from two american idiots, Christian Purslow, Roy Hodgson and Comolli/Kenny combined. That soup was never gonna taste good.

 

Noone said it was a Hodgsonesque "achievement" to beat Young Boys. To me it was all about showing a positive approach, and topping it by giving young players a chance in a real proper game. To me that counts as someting positive. Benitez did the same in the league cup when we played CL. He didn't give a shit on who the opposition was. It was the league cup. Gel players in. That's kind of the way you need to do it. Especially with our squad nowadays.

 

Perhaps it pays off in the longer run, you know.

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Ranxerox Grand Master

Ranxerox

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No, they haven't.

 

They have made it abundantly clear they not going to chuck money at dross any more. And should be applauded for it.

 

Look at the Redsox model. What makes you think they will Liverpool any differently?

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood my original post. When I said low wage, low transfer fee and youth I think that clearly covers what they are doing. Low transfer fee means we're not going to be spending 25 to 30 million on any one player (no Hazards etc) Low wage means again they're not looking at those types of players. Youth means you won't see them pursuing a Van Persie etc.

 

It's a risk averse strategy and is neither good nor bad. Whether it works depends on how they execute it. It is the strategy because they want to pay as they go again neither good nor bad, just reality.

 

As far as the Red Sox go I've been following the team for years, until now they operated the Red Sox as a high wage high free agent signing operation. They are now retooling that to a more value driven low wage low spending youth operation.

 

Time will tell if they can make it work on either endeavor.

 

They're not going to chuck money period any more. There will be a firm budget low in comparison to United Chelsea and City. Despite their best efforts they are likely to end up with dross on occasion its inevitable, people are hard to predict. The difference is when they get dross the financial hit in fees and wages will be lower.

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JohnnyH Grand Master

JohnnyH

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Ferguson took over a team who had lost 7 out of their first 10 matches that season, they were 18th when he took charge, in his first full season they finished 2nd, 9 points behind maybe the best Liverpool team ever and 8 points ahead of Nottingham.

 

 

And in the next season Ferguson's Man Utd finished 11th, 25 points off 1st place, and the season after that, finished 13th, 31 points off 1st place.

 

I'm just adding this for a bit of perspective. Overall I think assessing football from a myopic viewpoint of stats, stats, stats is pointless as it tells you only a tiny percentage of the story.

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MichaelThomas Apprentice

MichaelThomas

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For some clarity on why Rodgers is cut a little bit more slack:

a) He didn't have a 6 month bedding in period

b) He hasn't been allowed to spend all sorts of money on whatever takes his fancy.

c) He is new to the club

d) He is only 5 games into the season.

e) He is young.

 

Four of those would have applied to Woy. Just saying.... (6)

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