Lucas bid

[Carra_is_legend]

Thing is, it seems to be a given that Lucas was better than Gerrard last season, i don't think he was. Gerrard was poor by his standards i fully accept that, but Lucas wasn't better than him, not imo anyway.

 

I share the same opinion. Lucas was half decent but better than Gerrard? Hard to tell but if forced to tell, I would say NO.

 

Having said that, last season was piss poor by majority of the squad.

[zigackly]

Like I said, Gerrard being "fucking shit" still consists of a goal and an assist every four games, a pass completion rate in the high seventies, of which he makes nearly sixty a game, and decent tackling statistics. His problem is that he wasn't superman last season, but by the standards of other premier league attacking midfielders, you can't call it "fucking shit".

[Carra_is_legend]

Like I said, Gerrard being "fucking shit" still consists of a goal and an assist every four games, a pass completion rate in the high seventies, of which he makes nearly sixty a game, and decent tackling statistics. His problem is that he wasn't superman last season, but by the standards of other premier league attacking midfielders, you can't call it "fucking shit".

 

Spot on.

 

Even when he is "fucking shit", he is still miles better than some of the midfield players playing in the same league.

[TheResonator]

I can't really; it smacks of being unable to construct an argument for the lad on his own merits. If we want to discuss Gerrard's poor season that's another subject entirely. Lucas did pretty well last season even if he did make a couple of clangers and if you want to make an argument for him it's possible to do it on that basis without making lazy comparisons with Gerrard.

 

That's all well and good if you're arguing his strengths and weaknesses, but largely hopeless if someone describes him as 'shit' or a 'cunt'. They're probably not worth arguing with anyway, but it's much more relevant to say 'you've support Gerrard through the bad times, why not give the same support to a lad who's improving?' than to refer to his tackling or possession stats.

 

It's an issue of supporting the team equally rather than comparing abilities. If Gerrard deserves to be cut some slack for a bad season because of his past service, Lucas deserves to be cut some slack for the amount of effort he put in.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Like I said, Gerrard being "fucking shit" still consists of a goal and an assist every four games, a pass completion rate in the high seventies, of which he makes nearly sixty a game, and decent tackling statistics. His problem is that he wasn't superman last season, but by the standards of other premier league attacking midfielders, you can't call it "fucking shit".

 

Why are you judging him on the standards of other Premier League attacking midfielders? He's world class, none of the others are. If Messi got 15 goals next season it would be fucking shit. Because we know he's much better than that.

 

A goal and an assist every four games is rubbish for him, especially as he takes penalties as well.

 

A pass completion rate in the high seventies is shite for anyone, but this isn't exactly Gerrard's strength anyway.

 

Half the time he had a sad on.

 

He was fucking shit.

 

He has set his own standards. Which is why last season was so poor for him.

[zigackly]

It's an issue of supporting the team equally rather than comparing abilities. If Gerrard deserves to be cut some slack for a bad season because of his past service, Lucas deserves to be cut some slack for the amount of effort he put in.

 

But I'm not arguing against that. I think Lucas did pretty well last season, and showed he has what it takes to be allowed to develop with us as a squad player. I think you can argue his case on it's own merits though. If Lucas is so bad, why are his passing and tackling stats up there in the top ten or even the top five for the league (cba to check, but he was top five in the first half of the season)?

 

Granted most of his passes were not exciting, defence-splitting ones and he looks too often for the easy ball, but he got his fair share of assists for a defensive midfielder and looked more creative when he was allowed to play further forward. He looked to me as if he was getting to grips with the pace of the league more and whilst I still do not believe he is good enough to be a first eleven choice for us in an ideal world, he's by no means a bad player and you can't argue he is on the strength of just one own goal against Villa.

[WhiskeyJar]

Gerrard was fucking shit last season. Gerrard is a world class footballer.

Lucas was good last season. Lucas is a good footballer.

 

Solid logic...

[WhiskeyJar]

Spot on.

 

Even when he is "fucking shit", he is still miles better than some of the midfield players playing in the same league.

 

I think the point being made here is that he was shit based on our and his standards.

 

No he was not superman last season but it was a shit perfomance from him.

[zigackly]

Why are you judging him on the standards of other Premier League attacking midfielders? He's world class, none of the others are. If Messi got 15 goals next season it would be fucking shit. Because we know he's much better than that.

 

A goal and an assist every four games is rubbish for him, especially as he takes penalties as well.

 

A pass completion rate in the high seventies is shite for anyone, but this isn't exactly Gerrard's strength anyway.

 

Half the time he had a sad on.

 

He was fucking shit.

 

He has set his own standards. Which is why last season was so poor for him.

 

Thing is I've not said he had anything but a poor season by his standards. I just completely disagree that he was utterly shit or that Leiva was better. I also think the performance of the team and the fact he was playing with injections for a while is overlooked. If he stays I think he'll be much better next season. I'm not sure Lucas will.

[WhiskeyJar]

Thing is I've not said he had anything but a poor season by his standards. I just completely disagree that he was utterly shit or that Leiva was better. I also think the performance of the team and the fact he was playing with injections for a while is overlooked. If he stays I think he'll be much better next season.

 

That was a great reply.

 

I'm not sure Lucas will.

 

The above sentense however was not.

 

Lucas is young and now we have the new manager saying that Lucas has an LFC future ahead of him; meaning that Lucas was not just picked for the first team last season just because he was Rafa's lackey.

 

He will imrpove, I dont understand why you do not think that.....

[Guest PurpleNose]

Thing is I've not said he had anything but a poor season by his standards. I just completely disagree that he was utterly shit or that Leiva was better. I also think the performance of the team and the fact he was playing with injections for a while is overlooked. If he stays I think he'll be much better next season.

 

I think Lucas was better. Not by much though. I think the performance of the team is irrelevant, especially considering the player is Gerrard. An impact player, a player capable of creating something out of nothing. Not a player like Xavi who controls the entire game. If Xavi played alongside Salif Diao and Rory Delap he'd have no effect on the game. If Gerrard did, there is always the chance he'll slap one in from 35 yards.

 

I'd rather no player ever played with injections. I'd rather Gerrard had refused to play. All it does is prolong injuries. I understand why a player, and expecially Gerrard in this instance, would want to play. But it would have been best for everyone if he hadn't, especially him.

 

I think he'll be much better next season as well, be hard not to be though, because he's such a good footballer. Hope its for us.

 

Lucas will be a little bit better than this season. A player of nowhere near the ability of Gerrard, steadily improving each year. A player from another continent, constantly slaughtered by the press, and a section of his own fans. Never got a sad on last season, always gave his all. He deserves far more respect than he gets (not suggesting you don't).

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Thankfully I nor anyone else on here or any other internet fansite will ever be the manager of LFC.

[WhiskeyJar]

Thankfully I nor anyone else on here or any other internet fansite will ever be the manager of LFC.

 

[YOUTUBE]yMf7vA0tYuc[/YOUTUBE]

[zigackly]

WhiskeyJar, I've not said Lucas won't improve, in fact I've said I believe he "has what it takes to be allowed to develop with us as a squad player". What I don't think is that he will improve to the level Gerrard will next season. And I still don't think he was better last, but the fact it's even possible to have this discussion shows that he improved whilst Gerrard was significantly under par. But I would take a Gerrard performing at 50% over a Lucas performing at 100% every time.

[Roger_B]

Short-term madness.

 

Sorry If i've got the wrong person but aren't you one of the guys who wanted Rafa sacked, even though he finished second, with our highest points total in 20 years, just over 12 months ago?

 

You then talk about how Lucas cost us a "particular game", ignoring anything good he did in that game, before or after that game- while also ignoring the fact that Steven Gerrard gave away a penalty in that "particular game", stating he shouldn't be judged on that "particular game".

[Code]

Lucas might be worth around £8M for some club last summer due to his "potential".

 

After witnessing his performances week in week out last year though that potential have been replaced with the definition of averageness so a drop in price is only natural.

 

You can easily get better players than Lucas from Scandinavia at the same age for around £2-4M, so even if we overpaid like we have done with a few shite players under rafa does not mean he is worth that much or more just because he was a regular for us last season.

 

I`d struggle to name 5 clubs in the PL where Lucas would be a certain starter apart from us last season where he deffo should be not, so I`d say the money offered reflects the quality they will get back.

 

£10M as suggested by some is just laughable.

[silverlining]

 

I`d struggle to name 5 clubs in the PL where Lucas would be a certain starter apart from us last season where he deffo should be not, so I`d say the money offered reflects the quality they will get back.

 

£10M as suggested by some is just laughable.

 

I think 5 might be a touch low, but it's not a million miles away. Most teams in the Premiership have at least one CM better than Lucas, and most have two. Some have more than two.

[Gary Mac Legend]

Lucas might be worth around £8M for some club last summer due to his "potential".

 

After witnessing his performances week in week out last year though that potential have been replaced with the definition of averageness so a drop in price is only natural.

 

You can easily get better players than Lucas from Scandinavia at the same age for around £2-4M, so even if we overpaid like we have done with a few shite players under rafa does not mean he is worth that much or more just because he was a regular for us last season.

 

I`d struggle to name 5 clubs in the PL where Lucas would be a certain starter apart from us last season where he deffo should be not, so I`d say the money offered reflects the quality they will get back.

 

£10M as suggested by some is just laughable.

 

 

 

That's a baseless claim you can't support. How do you know the club has a good enough scouting system to identify such players? It's not nearly as easy as you may think. Name me some of these easily better players you know are available for £2-4 million at around the same age as Lucas?

[goatboy59]

Sorry If i've got the wrong person but aren't you one of the guys who wanted Rafa sacked, even though he finished second, with our highest points total in 20 years, just over 12 months ago?

 

 

Not even remotely the same thing.

[Roger_B]

Not even remotely the same thing.

 

Really? Agree to disagree then.

[Manny]

I think 5 might be a touch low, but it's not a million miles away. Most teams in the Premiership have at least one CM better than Lucas, and most have two. Some have more than two.

 

If we sell him for £3m, then replace him with Scharner, all teams in the Premiership will have at least one CM better than Scharner, and most will have two. Some will have under-18s better.

 

Selling Lucas for less than half of what we paid for him off the back of a progressive season for the lad is utter madness. I can understand the viewpoint that he's not a brilliant player and we should be in the market for better, but in our sell-to-buy (or worse) situation, who the hell are we going to get instead?

 

And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Aston Villa wasn't his finest 90 minutes!

[goatboy59]

Really? Agree to disagree then.

 

Good cos I got tired of the argument a while back.

 

Found this though

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/92562-roy-hodgson-thread-39.html

 

Post 1940

 

 

Whereas on the above argument I just want Gerrard to play better.

[TheResonator]

You can easily get better players than Lucas from Scandinavia at the same age for around £2-4M, so even if we overpaid like we have done with a few shite players under rafa does not mean he is worth that much or more just because he was a regular for us last season.

 

Those lads should nip over to Brazil and pick up the Bola de Ouro, you know, if they give it away to just anyone.

[Code]

That's a baseless claim you can't support. How do you know the club has a good enough scouting system to identify such players? It's not nearly as easy as you may think. Name me some of these easily better players you know are available for £2-4 million at around the same age as Lucas?

 

Players just from the Norwegian league on the same level as Lucas and who still have not proved themselves as failures at this level.

 

Per Ciljan Skjelbred ( 23 )- Rosenborg

Markus Henriksen ( 17 )- Rosenborg

Vadim Demidov ( 23 ) - Rosenborg

 

Mohammed Fella ( 21 ) - Vålerenga

Harmeet Singh ( 19 ) - Vålerenga

 

Eirik Mæland ( 21 ) - Haugesund

 

Nosa Igiebor ( 19 ) - Lillestrøm ( Nigeria )

 

Makhtar Thioune ( 25 ) - Molde (Senegal)

 

Henning Hauger ( 24 ) - Stabæk

 

Espen Børufsen ( 22 ) - Start

Christer Kleiven ( 22 ) - Start

 

Ruben Jenssen ( 22 ) - Tromsø

 

Birkir Bjarnasson ( 22 ) - Viking ( Iceland)

 

Hodgson will probably know about all these players as they all have either got their debut for Norway or are Norwegian U-21 players and he has got great connections in Norway and Scandinavia.

 

The potential midfielders from Sweden and Denmark I`ll let those with better knowledge from those leagues say something about.

[PaulMcC]

Why are they all playing in Norway, Code?

 

If teams like Palermo want Lucas, why wouldn't all these players be snapped up by clubs doing as well as Palermo?