Juventus begin to hire backroom staff for Liverpool boss Benitez

[zigackly]

For the record, the problems I have with Rafa's management are:

 

* Too much churn in the transfer market, leading to never building a cohesive unit.

 

* Failure to reward players for form.

 

* Negative strategy in away games against weaker opponents.

 

* Too much rigidity in team shape and movement.

 

* Difficulties in correcting dips in morale.

 

* Too much focus on the middle of the pitch, both in transfer strategy and tactics.

 

* Bad starts to both games and seasons, dull patches in the middle, and a flurry at the end when it's too late.

 

* Inability to learn from mistakes until just after it might prove effective, if at all.

 

None of the above really fall on the yanks plate for me, and I also think the only time he's really been let down in the transfer market was this summer. Net spend hides the fact he was given a £20M player last season who was on his shortlist, who he failed to use in his team to any advantage, and has repeated that mistake this season. It's difficult to point to a lack of funds when you are throwing away tens of millions like that.

 

I fully agree with anyone saying he should have been backed in the market last summer though.

 

Also for the sake of avoiding confusion, although I've said above that the yanks have backed him in previous seasons it's been with stolen money, and I'm not giving them any credit for it.

[Sangria]

You could argue that the only thing preventing him doing is job properly is the ownership situation.

 

I certainly agree it is part of the problem, how anyone can argue it has not played some part is beyond me.

 

That said he has brought a lot of it on himself but I personally think that they have played their part in it all.

 

Sometimes I think people on here have a bigger problem with Rafa than the owners. I just do not get that, if Rafa leaves and we have the current owners not much will change.

 

Oh another manager will get more out of the current team, he may well do but we probably will not have the same team.

Will Torres stick around if he is not giving assurances. Gerrard is not going to last forever etc, etc.

[Sangria]

For the record, the problems I have with Rafa's management are:

 

* Too much churn in the transfer market, leading to never building a cohesive unit.

 

* Failure to reward players for form.

 

* Negative strategy in away games against weaker opponents.

 

* Too much rigidity in team shape and movement.

 

* Difficulties in correcting dips in morale.

 

* Too much focus on the middle of the pitch, both in transfer strategy and tactics.

 

* Bad starts to both games and seasons, dull patches in the middle, and a flurry at the end when it's too late.

 

* Inability to learn from mistakes until just after it might prove effective, if at all.

 

None of the above really fall on the yanks plate for me, and I also think the only time he's really been let down in the transfer market was this summer. Net spend hides the fact he was given a £20M player last season who was on his shortlist, who he failed to use in his team to any advantage, and has repeated that mistake this season. It's difficult to point to a lack of funds when you are throwing away tens of millions like that.

 

I fully agree with anyone saying he should have been backed in the market last summer though.

 

Also for the sake of avoiding confusion, although I've said above that the yanks have backed him in previous seasons it's been with stolen money, and I'm not giving them any credit for it.

 

All valid points,

I would add I hate his use of substitutions. When it is plain for everyone and his dog to see the team and tactics are not working, he never changes it until most of the game is over.

That does my head in.

I have heard he likes to bring on fresh legs near the end of the game when the opposition are tired.

Half the teams we should have battered by then.

[WhiskeyJar]

In Rafas tenure, I have always been pro-Rafa, since then we have had a really bad season but still fighting for silverware.

 

If we dont finish fourth then yes its a major blow and considering we are Liverpool FC thats just fucking our of order no matter what he has won us in the past.

 

Its just one way to look at it.....

 

Seeing a team like Arsenal that has not won any silverware in the past how many years (lost count) but still in the CHL is another sackable offence, no matter how attractive football they play.

 

Another way, is to look at the way Rafa has turned Liverpool around. Taking into account this season too, he has performed really well considering the two fuckwits we had for owners.

 

The bottom line is how each and every single fan looks at what Rafa has done, won and is doing for Liverpool FC and determine if is good enough to stay or not.

[Guest TK-421]

I certainly agree it is part of the problem, how anyone can argue it has not played some part is beyond me.

 

That said he has brought a lot of it on himself but I personally think that they have played their part in it all.

 

Sometimes I think people on here have a bigger problem with Rafa than the owners. I just do not get that, if Rafa leaves and we have the current owners not much will change.

 

Oh another manager will get more out of the current team, he may well do but we probably will not have the same team.

Will Torres stick around if he is not giving assurances. Gerrard is not going to last forever etc, etc.

 

I worry that, unless G&H fuck off, the next managerial appointment will be a short term one, and the one after that...etc.

 

Without investment in the team things will stay the same or get worse, but at least with Rafa there is (was) a long term plan.

[WhiskeyJar]

All valid points,

I would add I hate his use of substitutions. When it is plain for everyone and his dog to see the team and tactics are not working, he never changes it until most of the game is over.

That does my head in.

I have heard he likes to bring on fresh legs near the end of the game when the opposition are tired.

Half the teams we should have battered by then.

 

Considering we won Number 5 based on his subs and the 2-1 against Manu etc etc i dont think I can agree with that

[WhiskeyJar]

I worry that, unless G&H fuck off, the next managerial appointment will be a short term one, and the one after that...etc.

 

Without investment in the team things will stay the same or get worse, but at least with Rafa there is (was) a long term plan.

 

Spot on.

 

Rafa fought tooth and nail to get his contract the way he wanted it, and still got fucked over. Just go to show the lack of professionalism of our current owners.

 

It doesnt matter who will get but one thing is for sure, no world class manager will come near us the state we currently find ourselves in, Liverpool FC or not.

[zigackly]

I worry that, unless G&H fuck off, the next managerial appointment will be a short term one, and the one after that...etc.

 

Without investment in the team things will stay the same or get worse, but at least with Rafa there is (was) a long term plan.

 

What is the long term plan?

[zigackly]

Considering we won Number 5 based on his subs and the 2-1 against Manu etc etc i dont think I can agree with that

 

He sometimes makes influential subs, no doubt about it. Even as recently as the beginning of last season he was going to two at the back in some games we were behind in and turning it around.

 

The problem I believe Sangria is referring to is that unless we are behind in a game, the subs appear too often to be fitness based. A lot of the time when we are drawing he will make like for like subs, often bringing on an inferior player in the same position, which has proved ineffective.

 

When he makes a tactical change it's normally spot on. Doesn't do it enough.

[Delmar]

What is the long term plan?

 

The Arsenal model (which is a modified Barcelona model). It needs stability to succeed. It also needs one person to figure out the basic footballing philosophy throughout the club, like Cruyff and Wenger have done.

 

Whether Benitez is the right man is just a matter of opinion.

[Guest TK-421]

What is the long term plan?

 

What Delmar said. Identifying and buying young players, bringing them through the system and being able to introduce them into the first team when they're ready. The other Chelsea/Man City "route to success" isn't an option for us.

[WhiskeyJar]

For the record, the problems I have with Rafa's management are:

 

1) Too much churn in the transfer market, leading to never building a cohesive unit.

 

2) Failure to reward players for form.

 

3) Negative strategy in away games against weaker opponents.

 

4) Too much rigidity in team shape and movement.

 

5) Difficulties in correcting dips in morale.

 

6) Too much focus on the middle of the pitch, both in transfer strategy and tactics.

 

7) Bad starts to both games and seasons, dull patches in the middle, and a flurry at the end when it's too late.

 

8) Inability to learn from mistakes until just after it might prove effective, if at all.

 

1) When a manager decides to change the teams style of play it can backfire. Up until this season we were a great unit, it was his decision to alter it and sadly it has indeed backfired. However to the players that he wanted to get this done we couldnt buy thanks to the yanks.

 

2) That is Rafas style, he determines which players will have the most impact of games based on their attributes and not their form. Thats just who he is.

 

3) Based on us being the most attacking team last season (scoring the most goals) I would say that in away game you are always going to be a little defensive. In Rafas case its more of controlling the play rather than attack the opposition. Sometimes it works other times it doesnt, you can just go alwyas gun-ho as you would in home games.

 

4) Which is why he tried to alter the style of play to make it more Liverpool way than what we have seen. But as in point 1, when you decide to change the core of the team to change its style you are going to need the funds to get the players you want. Rafa decided to change it but when the money went AWOL there was no turning back.

 

5) I agree with this being his most weakest point. He sees players like wooden pieces on a chess board.

 

6) Not true, we only saw an emphsis on this when Alonso left. Back then though it was always about the fulbacks than the middle.

 

7) Agree with this. If he managed to inspire some sort of consistency through the season then maybe we would have had number 19 by now.

 

8) By this you mean we should have had made the next step on the basis of last season (win the title). However Aquilani was a long term injury at the time and there was no money to buy class back up. Look to the owners on this basis.

[zigackly]

Ok, I don't personally see Rafa as the man for that plan. Reasons above.

 

I've never wanted him replaced by just anyone though. We have to find the right man.

[WhiskeyJar]

He sometimes makes influential subs, no doubt about it. Even as recently as the beginning of last season he was going to two at the back in some games we were behind in and turning it around.

 

The problem I believe Sangria is referring to is that unless we are behind in a game, the subs appear too often to be fitness based. A lot of the time when we are drawing he will make like for like subs, often bringing on an inferior player in the same position, which has proved ineffective.

 

When he makes a tactical change it's normally spot on. Doesn't do it enough.

 

But its when we are behind in a game that he will make a tactical change.

[WhiskeyJar]

Ok, I don't personally see Rafa as the man for that plan. Reasons above.

 

I've never wanted him replaced by just anyone though. We have to find the right man.

 

To do that we need new owners.

[zigackly]

1) When a manager decides to change the teams style of play it can backfire. Up until this season we were a great unit, it was his decision to alter it and sadly it has indeed backfired. However to the players that he wanted to get this done we couldnt buy thanks to the yanks.

 

I don't think you've understood my point. I'm talking about buying and selling too many players each season to build a cohesive unit. I would prefer small increments

 

2) That is Rafas style, he determines which players will have the most impact of games based on their attributes and not their form. Thats just who he is.

 

Sure, but I don't think it can work unless you have a team of robots. Form and confidence are absolutely huge factors in any sport.

 

3) Based on us being the most attacking team last season (scoring the most goals) I would say that in away game you are always going to be a little defensive. In Rafas case its more of controlling the play rather than attack the opposition. Sometimes it works other times it doesnt, you can just go alwyas gun-ho as you would in home games.

 

I don't think we were the most attacking team last season; I think we scored most goals however. We hit a magic run of form late on and piled them on when it was too late to win the league, but where were the goals when we needed them? How many away draws again?

 

4) Which is why he tried to alter the style of play to make it more Liverpool way than what we have seen. But as in point 1, when you decide to change the core of the team to change its style you are going to need the funds to get the players you want. Rafa decided to change it but when the money went AWOL there was no turning back.

 

When has he tried to alter the style of play to make it "more Liverpool" (I'm not even sure what that means by the way)? I see the same pattern this season as previous seasons.

 

6) Not true, we only saw an emphsis on this when Alonso left.

 

I just totally disagree with this. Seems to me his wide players want to play in the centre, and always have.

 

8) By this you mean we should have had made the next step on the basis of last season (win the title). However Aquilani was a long term injury at the time and there was no money to buy class back up. Look to the owners on this basis.

 

No, I'm taking a much longer view. I see many of the problems in Rafa's management that I have every season, although of course in previous seasons the results have been much more acceptable.

[Barrington Womble]

Has he gone yet?

[Code]

Considering we won Number 5 based on his subs and the 2-1 against Manu etc etc i dont think I can agree with that

 

The tactical genius was about to send 10 men out on the pitch in the second half.

[BexBissel]

The tactical genius was about to send 10 men out on the pitch in the second half.

12

[Bogman]

Rafa committed to Reds

Reds boss planning for long-term

 

 

Rafa committed to Reds

 

Benitez: Annoyed with rumours

 

 

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez insists he is committed to the club and is frustrated at rumours over his future.

 

Benitez's position at Anfield has been the subject of intense speculation in recent weeks with Italian giants Juventus strongly linked with a move for his services.

 

The Spaniard, who is preparing for Thursday's Europa clash with Atletico Madrid, is annoyed with the constant speculation over his Liverpool future and claims the signing of Charlton youngster Jonjo Shelvey proves his long-term planning for the club.

 

"I don't like [the rumours]," said Benitez.

 

"I would like to see news in the press about trophies, or goals or fantastic performances about players but you cannot control everything.

 

"My future is Atletico Madrid. We have to concentrate on this game and try to win because it is the best for the club."

Signings

Benitez is happy with the signing of Shelvey and admits he has other young British talent lined up to bring in at Anfield.

 

"But we have been working for years; I was trying to sign Gareth Barry before and Glen Johnson was the same idea - we were trying to bring in British players with passion," added Benitez.

 

"Players who could feel what Liverpool means for them. Shelvey is one of these and we have two or three names ready so we will try to do the best for the club.

 

"We have this long-term plan in place and we will try to follow the plan."

 

Sky Sports | Football | Premier League | News | Rafa committed to Reds

 

 

 

Didn't see that one coming. :eek:

[zigackly]

There's an easy way to cut out the rumours.

 

Stop talking to Juve and start denying that you're talking to them.

[Guest TK-421]

See - the plan!

[Monster Masch]

I still think he'll go.

[Glen C]

I want him to go. But he has gone about making sure he's tied down reina, torres, mascherano etc to long term deals and is buying a whole load of british youngsters. hardly the sign of someone looking to leave in the summer.

[stringvest]

Would you give the two factors equal weight? I wouldn't. I think Rafa has been severely restricted in his ability to take the club forward since February 2007. That's why I'm of the view that things won't necessarily improve with a change of manager, assuming the same restrictions are there.

 

There's a difference though. Next year, the lack of funds becomes a much bigger problem than it has been this year. The problem grows almost exponentially as the club are unable to retain top players, can't renew contracts, are unable to attract anyone even half decent, lose sponsorship money etc etc.

 

That's not really the case this year. This piss poor season has been at least 75% down to Rafa imo.