Surely its the end for rafa now!

[zigackly]

Code, do you honestly think Balague has any influence over who we sign or why?

[The Acolyte]

Benitez can turn it round if he stops putting his faith in some of the players who keep letting us down. dropping Kuyt for Maxi would be a good start and getting Pacheco in the team, the current lot are awful in an attacking sense

 

we also badly need a 2nd senior striker

 

You've answered your own question there. He's bought Maxi as he has lost faith in Kuyt. He has no cash so had to get that Moroccan kid on a free.

He's sold Dossena and Voronin but has seen fuck all money from it, AGAIN.

Also a word to all those pathetic twats who were listing Degen as another one bound for the transfer list. Don't you look stupid now. How could you possibly write someone off who was bought while still injured. He was literally the only player busting a gut last night. He even inspired Carra to give it a go down the right!

Since we have now got shot of Dossena even more responsibility now rests on Insua, exactly what Rafa didn't want (thats why he bought Dossena in the first place!). I hope the fans recognise this and get off the lads back.

[Code]

Code, do you honestly think Balague has any influence over who we sign or why?

 

No, but I think the wording in that article is so strong that it deffo has to come from Rafa himself.

 

I dont think it would be worded like that if not.

[zigackly]

Possible I suppose. I think the fitness line is more pertinent. Who's to say Van Nistelrooy will be available to play for us?

 

If we don't sign a striker for the rest of the season though, then it's unforgiveable not to try to get him in on loan.

[Code]

I thought he was fit now, but I can be wrong off course.

[an buachaill]

if benitez had any pride he would walk. tbh i think the players arent behind him anymore and now the majority of fans are starting to say it

[Redshadow]

TheAcolyte - It's not hard to put fingers on what's gone wrong with and drained the players confidence completely - I listed the reasons a few pages back - It's all to do with them SEEING how the owners are fcuking the club Royally in a financial sense and how it's not so much stunted team development as Totally Destroyed it with the net effect that we are now REGRESSING as fast as we were PROGRESSING before - New players see us only doing badly, soon find out why and get sucked in/drained by the general malaise which thus grows ever bigger and affects ever more players - Who'd want to play in a team like that? And THAT is where our confidence problem lies and where our confidence has gone, ALL of it. How to solve it - Who knows? But one things for sure - Rafa' Hasn't got long to come up with answers now or the next one to follow Hicks Jr overboard via the Plank could be Him..........................

 

NB Of course IF the owners ARE intent on Keeping Rafa' as the purchase of Rodriguez apparently shows - then the best thing THEY could do is state in public that despite results, the mood of players, press hatchet jobs on Rafa' and Anything else, he will NOT be sacked and then the players have NO excuse to not play for him as they'll then be unable to get him sacked despite their efforts ; They'll then HAVE to pull their socks up since he WON'T be going and clearly, they will if they carry on undermining him in that manner - But do our owners have the sheer balls to do what's necessary in this desperate situation? Again, we shall see.......................

[stringvest]

TheAcolyte - It's not hard to put fingers on what's gone wrong with and drained the players confidence completely - I listed the reasons a few pages back - It's all to do with them SEEING how the owners are fcuking the club Royally in a financial sense and how it's not so much stunted team development as Totally Destroyed it with the net effect that we are now REGRESSING as fast as we were PROGRESSING before - New players see us only doing badly, soon find out why and get sucked in/drained by the general malaise which thus grows ever bigger and affects ever more players - Who'd want to play in a team like that? And THAT is where our confidence problem lies and where our confidence has gone, ALL of it.

 

 

If you BELIEVE this, Redshadow, you are deluded. It IS at most a tiny factor in our woeful season. The responsibility for this state of AFFAIRS does not lie with THE owners.

[Timão]

You've answered your own question there. He's bought Maxi as he has lost faith in Kuyt. He has no cash so had to get that Moroccan kid on a free.

He's sold Dossena and Voronin but has seen fuck all money from it, AGAIN.

Also a word to all those pathetic twats who were listing Degen as another one bound for the transfer list. Don't you look stupid now. How could you possibly write someone off who was bought while still injured. He was literally the only player busting a gut last night. He even inspired Carra to give it a go down the right!

Since we have now got shot of Dossena even more responsibility now rests on Insua, exactly what Rafa didn't want (thats why he bought Dossena in the first place!). I hope the fans recognise this and get off the lads back.

 

Degen was injured for about 2 years before we bought him. I knew a couple of Dortmund fans who could not believe their luck to get him off the wage bill. Not a bad player but that means fuck all when you are never fit. The criticism here is with Rafa, not Degen, for me anyway.

[rebel23]

Says who?

 

In any case, keeping Rafa would also have a serious long-term impact.

 

6 wins in 26, knee-jerk indeed.

 

the last time the kneejerkers were out in force they were days away from appointing Klinsmann. Believe me, it may not seem it but it can get a lot worse. They will not and cannot appoint someone as good as Benitez however bad you think he's doing now he has given 5 years of CL which you may think we have a right to but we don't.

 

whoever they get you will be on their backs sooner or later and want them sacked

[Timão]

the last time the kneejerkers were out in force they were days away from appointing Klinsmann. Believe me, it may not seem it but it can get a lot worse. They will not and cannot appoint someone as good as Benitez however bad you think he's doing now he has given 5 years of CL which you may think we have a right to but we don't.

 

whoever they get you will be on their backs sooner or later and want them sacked

 

Did I ever say it cannot get worse? Appointing a new manager is always a risk, as it was with Benitez in 2004, but you know you are on shaky ground when the best argument for keeping someone is that the alternative may be worse.

 

I did not want Benitez sacked when we nearly got Klinsmann, in fact I was over for a match and demonstrated on his behalf. Bneitez has given us some great times, but so did Houllier and Evans. If Evans had worked under the same rules as Benitez he would have qualified us for the CL every single year

(4-3-4-3).

 

As for 'you' being on their backs, I have had a ST for nearly 20 years and watched football for nearly 30, so don´t give me lessons in being a supporter. I am sick and tired of people mistaking criticism for lack of support, You CAN have one with the other. I have watched football and this club long enough to know shite when I see it and what I see at the moment is terrible.

 

Houllier got slaughtered (rightly) in 2003 after wasting 20m on 3 players. Rafa´s dealings, whatever the constraints he is working under, in the last couple of windows have been terrible and the result is there for all to see. Add to that his inanbility to seemingly motivate certain players and the alarming failure to improbve the form of others, what do you want us to do? Pretend everything is fine? He is a dead man walking, the only quesiton being how messy it will get. He can take some players with him on his way out.

 

Thanks for the memories, always to be remembered, but Istanbul was 5 years ago. Times move on and so must he.

[john23liverpool]

I think that Rafa is lucky we have these two parasites as owners.

 

If we had decent owners there would have been nowhere for him to hide.

 

The owners didn't spend £20,000,000 on Aquilani knowing he was injured for at least a couple of months. They didn't buy Babel for £11,500,000 and they don't choose to play two defensive ball winning midfielders together for most games this season.

 

They don't choose to play one up front. It's not their job to motivate players. It wasn't their decision to put Skrtel on last night.

 

They didn't buy Robbie Keane for £20,000,000 then not play him, they didn't buy that sack of shit Dossena for £7,000,000.

 

Truth is Rafa has made a hell of a lot of mistakes in the transfer market. You could argue that he hasnt had all of the money back to spend that he has brought in (ala Alonso, Keane). But the truth of the matter is, he has still brought a lot of expensive flops in.

 

Please don't take this as a pro Hicks/Gillete post because it isnt. I hate them two pieces of shit as much as anybody else. I just don't buy it that everything is their fault.

 

We started going down hill when Rafa lost his main backroom staff (Ayesteran, Herrera etc).

 

Thanks very much for Istanbul Rafa, thanks very much for Athens. You will always be remembered for your dignity and professionalism.

 

Please go while you still have some dignity left.

[zigackly]

the last time the kneejerkers were out in force they were days away from appointing Klinsmann.

 

The mooted appointment of Klinsmann was nothing to do with results and everything to do with Benitez instigating a press war against the owners, not unjustifiably. I'm not sure who you mean by kneejerkers? Perhaps the thousands of fans who marched in support of him?

 

Had it crossed your mind that it may be some of those same fans wanting a change now?

 

I do take your point that Klinsmann was a poor shout. Hopefully when the time comes to replace Benitez the owners will take advice from a football man like Kenny.

[masch]

What's so depressing is that there's nowhere to go from here.

 

We either continue as we are and have a slow painful slide down the league or hope to get taken over by a sugar-daddy.

 

Right now I'm almost preferring the first option, endure a few seasons of torment, drop down a league with a points penalty and start afresh. Lose the owners, big opportunity to get the fan ownership of the club German-style and half of our fickle fucking fanbase will fuck off for good. Club back as it was and first in line to climb the table when the TV bubble bursts and the rest of the league are fucked.

[Jamie-H]

I was watching some old DVD's of the 1988/89 season last night to cheer me up and just looking at the style of football we played it was so attack minded. Forgetting individuals in our team now for a moment, what is our philosophy this season to actually score a goal as I dont see one?

 

Benitez has gambled wrongly on signing so many foreigners from abroad. I am happy for us to sign good foreigners to play for us but surely lets buy tested premiership players rather than players who struggle to adjust and adapt.

 

Thats our problem you see, generally his signings are taking too long to settle and find form. If we cant compete with Chelsea, City or United in the transfer market in the last 20 years then our next best bet has been to produce our own. Fowler, Matteo, Owen, Thompson, Carragher, Gerrard, Warnock have saved us a fortune. Whats gone wrong with the acadamy to produce the next Owen or Fowler? Watching the youngsters destroy Leicester the other night, they showed the first team how to score goals. I would quite happily allow the 11 of them wear the red shirt against Stoke on Saturday as they would give us more of a hope of winning.

 

Gone are the days of us getting 3 players signed to make such an immediate impact as Barnes, Beardsley and Houghton. How can we fix the problem we have now and quickly?

[john23liverpool]

 

How can we fix the problem we have now and quickly?

 

Sack Benitez, get Kenny to oversee the team until the end of the season then roll out the red carpet to get Mourinho in.

[Guest TK-421]

I think that Rafa is lucky we have these two parasites as owners.

 

Yeah, he sure hit the jackpot there!

 

I bet if he could go back in time and choose again he'd go "you know, these two are ok. Sure, they've given me fuck all money and tried to replace me after 8 months, but I...I dunno...I like 'em!"

[old skool tom]

SURELY it's the end for Old Skool Tom now? He's a boring, useless, backstabbing, pathetic, abysmal, worthless, woeful, calamatious, ridiculous, awful, laughable, hopeless, absolute JOKE of a so called Liverpool 'Fan' who has NOTHING new to say in EVERY thing he EVER posts other than 'sack Rafa' and HAS done even when we nearly WON the damn league!!!

 

He posts nothing but total drivel, utter piffle, complete shite, ridiculously BAD, utterly abysmal, useless awful steaming piles of Crap masquerading somehow as so called 'posts' and yet continues on here unchallenged!! Well no more!! - I have ONE thing to say to you Old Skool Tom and it goes thus;

 

FCUK OFF AND NEVER COME BACK TO TLW FORUM - I'M UTTERLY SICK OF YOU AND YOUR SHITE AND YOU BORE ME TO TEARS WITH THE PIECES OF GARBAGE YOU CONTINUALLY EMBARRASS YOURSELF BY CALLING 'POSTS'.NOW FCUK OFF AND ODN'T COME BACK.......................EVER!!! GOT THE MESSAGE YET?

 

ive seen this coming for ages.your anger isnt really at me,its at yourself for not being able to see things as quickly as me............try exercise,its a good way of relieving stress and anger!

 

id offer you out but id rip your head off and make you more angry! haha

[old skool tom]

The Oblivion in Alton Towers just goes down, doesn't it?

 

boss shout!

[old skool tom]

I'm not at all sure he can clear it up, but I do think he's probably earned the right to try. I don't even like the guy, but fair's fair.

 

so they should of let hitler try and make amends? :whistle:

[john23liverpool]

Yeah, he sure hit the jackpot there!

 

I bet if he could go back in time and choose again he'd go "you know, these two are ok. Sure, they've given me fuck all money and tried to replace me after 8 months, but I...I dunno...I like 'em!"

 

No but he has been saved a lot of flak because of them.

 

People are making it an issue of who do you prefer - Rafa or the owners.

 

Not, are you happy with the manager or not.

 

Thats what I meant. But then you knew that really didnt you.

[Guest TK-421]

I did know that, I was being a sarcastic asshole, but that "he's lucky we have these owners" line is trotted out a fair bit and I couldn't disagree more. In the context of this season he may be lucky that they are a pair of inert fuckwits who couldn't decide what they want for dinner. In the context of his tenure as a whole I think he's had to chew on a Texas sized shit sandwich.

[zigackly]

I did know that, I was being a sarcastic asshole, but that "he's lucky we have these owners" line is trotted out a fair bit and I couldn't disagree more. In the context of this season he may be lucky that they are a pair of inert fuckwits who couldn't decide what they want for dinner. In the context of his tenure as a whole I think he's had to chew on a Texas sized shit sandwich.

 

Can't disagree with that at all, and yet he hasn't helped his own cause always either.

[john23liverpool]

I did know that, I was being a sarcastic asshole, but that "he's lucky we have these owners" line is trotted out a fair bit and I couldn't disagree more. In the context of this season he may be lucky that they are a pair of inert fuckwits who couldn't decide what they want for dinner. In the context of his tenure as a whole I think he's had to chew on a Texas sized shit sandwich.

 

I know what you mean, they haven't made his job any easier thats for sure. But I they have took the shine off some of his more dodgy decisions.

 

If you've got two cowboys raping your arse the man in front of you poking you in the eye goes unnoticed somewhat. But he's still poking you in the eye.

[Kevin D]

I still think he should be given to the end of the season. He's caused the mess, he needs to clean it up.

 

Agreed. The questions I've been asking of Rafa is not whether he can get us 4th this season, that isn't to understate the importance of Champions league football but my confidence in his ability, the question is whether he's the right man to lead us long term and deliver success( the European cup or the title). At this moment and for the past two months I've not been able to unequivocally answer that which is personally concerning.

 

While I accept the majority of big teams wouldn't tolerate this seasons performance without sacking their manager, I think, like you, he's more than earned the right to solve the problem and,beyond that, a bad season.