You know what?

[SpeedyG]

Lad

 

Please come on.

 

The decisions that have cost Rafa this year have nothing to do with wages, just thank your lucky stars Alonso didn't go in the summer.

 

Yeah, because we'd be relegation fodder without his 2 goals (1 Pen) and 1 assist. Nice passing but a blunt object.

[Antynwa]

So attacking with 6 men in front of the ball carrier, 5 in across their box, with 7 minutes to go, half way in their half wasnt a stupid gung ho thing to do then ?

 

Negative is not why we drew yesterday, did you see the game ?

 

Did you see his substituions?

[Catch22]

Lad

 

Please come on.

 

The decisions that have cost Rafa this year have nothing to do with wages, just thank your lucky stars Alonso didn't go in the summer.

 

 

Barry is AV's best player....

 

All managers like all players make mistakes.

 

You cant look at them in isolation.

 

Or Torres was shit last year for missing chances (which he did)

& Gerrard was shit for missing passes (which he did)

 

They were both excellent becuase overall their success outweighed their mistakes.

 

Now that may or may not be the case with Rafa but you dont judge the whole League on a few games; you judge the overall package.

 

On that overall package we have the 4th highest reources so i use that as a starting point.

 

We were nevr going to win the League with this squad & people got carried away by a few results; equally i am pretty sure we are a comfortable 4th & should get 3rd.

 

That will probably mean we have beaten Arse for the 3rd time in 4 years despite them spending a lot more than us.

 

I don't like not winning the League but Rafa is the reason we are as close as we are (without him, no CL succes = no Torres & gerrard would probably have left as weLL)- nop player wants to play in the Uefa Cup rather than the CL.

[ScottyT]

I don't believe what I'm reading here. We have assembled one of the most expensive squads in Europe and some are saying we never stood a chance because of the wage bill. Absolutely ridiciulous justifying of some poor basic managerial decisions.

 

Benitez has created an army of data driven humanoids.

[Catch22]

I don't believe what I'm reading here. We have assembled one of the most expensive squads in Europe and some are saying we never stood a chance because of the wage bill. Absolutely ridiciulous justifying of some poor basic managerial decisions.

 

Benitez has created an army of data driven humanoids.

 

 

It is still only the 4th most expensive in the League.

 

That position has never won yet won the PL.

 

Rafa is not beyond criticsim & a change of manager may or may not improve us.

 

But if you continually ignore the basic relationship between wages & PL success & the fact that we are a clear 4th in what we pay, then any criticism you make of the man & his methods is half-baked.

[redrosetints]

They've spent much less than us and are only just behind us.

 

Rafa is running out of excuses, the wage packet is almost a non starter.

 

Our problem this year has been the tactical decisions Rafa has made, that has no bearing or impact upon our wages.

 

So it was Rafa who asked, whilst were 1-0 with 7 minutes to go, for 5 players to line up along Wigans 18rd line, with the ball carrier and Lucas in the last third of the pitch. That;s 7, yep, 7 players, in the oppositions last quarter of the pitch ?

 

We werent losing, nor drawing but winning. We needed to keep possesion and pass the ball about, exactly as we normally do, but we didnt. We didnt put our foot on teh ball, we did pass it about looking for openings, we made a sloppy pass which was intercepted and suddenly, 7 men on the attack are totally out of position as Wigan charge forward. Yes, Lucas challenge was crude, but why were we flooding the opposition box, when leading, with just minutes to go ? Whatever happened to putting your foot on the ball and keeping it ?

 

People can criticise Rafa all they like, but his 4-4-2 with Keane in the side against Everton last week was what everyone wanted, not negative or shithouse yet we failed to close out the game. THis week, were again winning and instead of keeping the ball, stopping the opposition having it, we flood forward like something from a Keegan dream, whilst winning.

 

Poor, poor decision making by the lads out there.

[hamstrung]

They've spent much less than us and are only just behind us.

 

Rafa is running out of excuses, the wage packet is almost a non starter.

 

Our problem this year has been the tactical decisions Rafa has made, that has no bearing or impact upon our wages.

 

They've spent more than us recently (12 months or so) I would have thought.

 

Regardless, my response was only intended to highlight the fact that you were making shit up to try back up your point.

[SpeedyG]

So it was Rafa who asked, whilst were 1-0 with 7 minutes to go, for 5 players to line up along Wigans 18rd line, with the ball carrier and Lucas in the last third of the pitch. That;s 7, yep, 7 players, in the oppositions last quarter of the pitch ?

 

We werent losing, nor drawing but winning. We needed to keep possesion and pass the ball about, exactly as we normally do, but we didnt. We didnt put our foot on teh ball, we did pass it about looking for openings, we made a sloppy pass which was intercepted and suddenly, 7 men on the attack are totally out of position as Wigan charge forward. Yes, Lucas challenge was crude, but why were we flooding the opposition box, when leading, with just minutes to go ? Whatever happened to putting your foot on the ball and keeping it ?

 

People can criticise Rafa all they like, but his 4-4-2 with Keane in the side against Everton last week was what everyone wanted, not negative or shithouse yet we failed to close out the game. THis week, were again winning and instead of keeping the ball, stopping the opposition having it, we flood forward like something from a Keegan dream, whilst winning.

 

Poor, poor decision making by the lads out there.

 

Pffft, even I know the answer to that. It's because we are a cautious team. And trust me the players wouldn't have done that unless Benitez told them to. You could see him at around 80 minutes urging the players forward.

[shea mc]

it is time to bite the bullet and admit he is not going to win us the leauge. last night was the same as the last 10 years no fucking width

[redrosetints]

Did you see his substituions?

 

Having been through a recent poor run of results, losing the lead at the top of the prem. Not getting enough wins and having blown the lead in the last 5 minutes against your local rivals, Id say wining one nil and preserving that lead should be our no1 priority.

 

We do that, not by defending deep, or booming it long to Torres, but by playing pass and move possession football, which is what Rafas sides are famous for and what we do week in week out. When were trying to get a goal, its been a problem for us recently, but when were in the lead, we are more than capable of keeping it on the deck, finding another red shirt and slowly gridning the opposition into the ground.

 

Therefore, any tactical change or substitution should be done with that in mind. When you're winning 1-0, having let the lead go last week, we should have put our foot on it, kept possession and the points.

 

Instead, the players go charging up the pitch looking for a 2nd, it was madness on the players part, they completley lost their formation and shape and heads.

[WaltonRed]

Time for a change and I hate saying that.

 

I have no doubt though he'll manipulate the situation and Hicks will give him a new long term contract which he wont see out but he'll ge a big pay off for.

[Royal Family]

Time for a change and I hate saying that.

 

I have no doubt though he'll manipulate the situation and Hicks will give him a new long term contract which he wont see out but he'll ge a big pay off for.

 

Yes, what's the betting that the outcome of Hicks's visit will be signature of the new deal, probably to be announced on the morning of the Chelsea match? Rafa will come out with something along the lines that "the longer it went unsigned, the more it was unsettling the players" - in other words, he knows he's not in as strong a position as he was back in late November. Nightmare scenario is a new 4 year deal AND we finish out of the top 4. Then what?

 

I've been saying all season that contract talks have to wait until the summer.

[WaltonRed]

Yes, what's the betting that the outcome of Hicks's visit will be signature of the new deal, probably to be announced on the morning of the Chelsea match? Rafa will come out with something along the lines that "the longer it went unsigned, the more it was unsettling the players" - in other words, he knows he's not in as strong a position as he was back in late November. Nightmare scenario is a new 4 year deal AND we finish out of the top 4. Then what?

 

I've been saying all season that contract talks have to wait until the summer.

 

I've been saying for weeks once he's got the security of a four year deal he'll fuck about with the team on the same levels as previous seasons.

 

I'm so depressed about it all its untrue.

[redrosetints]

Deary me guys, had we played possession, keep it footie, that stuff Rafa was famed for at Valencia, we'd have closed out and won both games. We'd still be top.

 

Now is not the time to cave into Sky and the meeja, who are sensing a killing, now is the time to get behind the reds and give them your all.

[stringvest]

Being a stat virgin and all that I have sympathy for your position but you're going a little too far here.

 

1. The #1 correlator deciding PL position is points won. In 100% of cases the team with the most points wins.

2. If I give SG a pay rise to 5m a week, will we win the title?

 

Look we see your point, we are at a disadvantage financially, but that does not mean we cannot win the title and does not mean we can excuse the piss poor passing we've been seeing from the players. I've seen 10 pound a week players doing better than some have recently.

 

Bang on.

[Kevin D]

We never had nor will have a realistic shot at the title with our present salary structure.

 

He does brilliantly to get us over our position with performances away at the Chavs & then when we mean-revert he is criticised!

 

Deal with the cancer off-the-field but do not throw the baby out with bathwater

 

Rafa has over-achived spectaculalry with us.... ffs we have a chance of getting the best team in Europe over the last 5 years award from Uefa at the end of this season.

 

Emotional disappointment is fine but to let the heart rule the head is not.

 

We lose Rafa & all the evidence suggests we will go backwards very quickly.

 

With Citeh & AV well run off the pitch that means scrapping for the Uefa Cup when he goes.

 

When that happens, i hope the fans responsible are man enough to admit their hysteria put us there

 

[stringvest]

Having been through a recent poor run of results, losing the lead at the top of the prem. Not getting enough wins and having blown the lead in the last 5 minutes against your local rivals, Id say wining one nil and preserving that lead should be our no1 priority.

 

We do that, not by defending deep, or booming it long to Torres, but by playing pass and move possession football, which is what Rafas sides are famous for and what we do week in week out. When were trying to get a goal, its been a problem for us recently, but when were in the lead, we are more than capable of keeping it on the deck, finding another red shirt and slowly gridning the opposition into the ground.

 

Therefore, any tactical change or substitution should be done with that in mind. When you're winning 1-0, having let the lead go last week, we should have put our foot on it, kept possession and the points.

 

Instead, the players go charging up the pitch looking for a 2nd, it was madness on the players part, they completley lost their formation and shape and heads.

 

Rafa contradicted your point in a statement last night. He suggested we should have killed the game by scoring a second. We are no good at holding on to 1-0 leads.

 

Our team looks like a team of strangers sometimes. As a team we are less than the sum of our parts. That is the fault of the management. If they cannot get the best out of the players they should drop them. The management should motivate, cajole, provide confidence, develop team spirit and determination, coach, allow the players to express themselves within a framework, and most importantly, make the TEAM represent more than the sum of its constituents. Since Istanbul, Rafa has singularly failed to do this imo. What do you think?

[redrosetints]

Rafa contradicted your point in a statement last night. He suggested we should have killed the game by scoring a second. We are no good at holding on to 1-0 leads.

 

Our team looks like a team of strangers sometimes. As a team we are less than the sum of our parts. That is the fault of the management. If they cannot get the best out of the players they should drop them. The management should motivate, cajole, provide confidence, develop team spirit and determination, coach, allow the players to express themselves within a framework, and most importantly, make the TEAM represent more than the sum of its constituents. Since Istanbul, Rafa has singularly failed to do this imo. What do you think?

 

Well if Rafa said that, he really has gone mad. I can't think of any manager, who, when 1-0 up, having thrown away the lead in their derby a week before and having had the pressure of the results he's had, who wouldn't take the 3 points and close the game down.

 

Its getting ahead were not so good at, once we get ahead, we win and close it out.

 

Either way, its rather cheeky of those who insist Rafa is negative, to then hit him with the negative stick when his team werent being so.

 

I think we've looked better each season since Istanbul, but you know that. Up until this season, where results have been better, performances not. If we repeat our run in of last year, we'll get 84 points and be 2nd 2 off the top, more than satisfying for me right now.

 

What about you ?

[Carra_is_legend]

In my opinion, we are doing neither. We try to score a second goal but he huff and puff at our very best.

 

Yesterday was a good example I think. Rafa could have substituted Keane for Torres or atleast for Benayoun. Ok, he brought on Riera, who is an offensive player but then he brought Kuyt on, who has been on terrible form himself. He then puts Babel upfront which is pretty much like playing with 10 men - as per Babel's current form and attitude.

 

They then equalise and he takes Gerrard off for Keane. Some people may choose to call this negative and personally, I will find it hard to argue with them.

 

Having said all that, I still don't know what my point is, except that we are very shite at the moment.

[Red Paul]

I'd just like to offer my support and egreement of redrosetints' posts.

 

Seems pointles trying to talk to some people recently though. I was accused of being a WUM last night, and I'm still not sure why.

[dave u]

I'd just like to offer my support and egreement of redrosetints' posts.

 

Seems pointles trying to talk to some people recently though. I was accused of being a WUM last night, and I'm still not sure why.

 

Probably because people think you're Momo.

[RSM]

I don’t believe in short-termism. I’m frustrated by the club from top to bottom from the Board room to the youth set up (on the field and off the field) at the moment and that includes Rafa. It’s more a sense of optimism has washed away and the true picture of our demise has become apparent. I still believe we are making progress and have improved immeasurably under Rafa (from the dark days of Houllier, Traore, Cheyrou, Biscan, Diao, and Diouf) and by and large Rafa gets it right most of the time, but such are the expectations of the fans, the scrutiny of the media and the successes of our rivals it’s hard not to get pulled in and lose all sense of context and perspective.

 

Everyone wanted a challenge this season – which we are giving (but fading fast), but as soon as that happened, the goal post changed to “we want the title”! So now the expectation has been set and if we don’t finish first, the season will seem a failure. But should that be the case? To win the title we have to punch substantially above our weight as the teams around us have far greater resource to call upon. This season certainly looks like a missed opportunity, but is that down to Rafa?

[Antynwa]

Still can't get my head around Rafa's decisions?

 

For the first time since under Houllier have I actually come out of a football ground actually wondering how Rafa can justify any of the decisions made.

 

It's as if he said to himself

 

'Babel is playing crap, but I won't take him off because they'll all be expecting that, and I might prove everyone wrong'

 

It's about time Rafa stopped managing for some personal glory, the aim to prove people wrong, and started managing Liverpool Football Club.

 

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

 

It's starting to go all Houllier.

[dave u]

I don't think we got done by a 'counter attack' in the traditional sense. We got done because Lucas was beaten by a piece of skill and fouled someone. If they'd caught us on a three v two break or something and we were short of numbers, that would be unforgivable, but they didn't, we had plenty back and had Lucas just jockeyed his man there wouldn't have been a problem.

 

The mere fact that Lucas was even in his own box defending shows we weren't over committed. I feel sorry for Lucas, he had a decent game and just got beaten by a piece of skill and left his foot in. He's got a habit of giving silly free-kicks away and he is to blame for the penalty, but I still feel sorry for him as he must feel like crap today.

 

We could have had all eleven men in our own penalty area, but would that have stopped Lucas from tripping Koumas? I don't think it would.

[Anny Road]

Never mind posting on here. Match report. ASAP