judgement of players

[stmichael]

Im sure I read Rafa yesterday saying that it would be ideal for us to get any potential transfer deals sewn up before the World Cup this summer. Now, apart from the obvious financial reasons like players who we are looking to sign having a good tournament and their prices going through the roof, it means we won't be distracted by players who go all out to put themselves in the shop window.

 

I also constantly hear people drooling over this player and that player because of their success in this seasons CL, but do the words Fernando Morientes mean nothing to everyone?? Probably not, but he's the prime example of a player who was in the shop window at Monaco and on a different stage to the one that we need him on, 38 games a season. A slower paced game, more space, less aggression and closing down, tailor made for a any player with strong technical ability. Sadly a million miles from the hustle and bustle of our very own English game.

 

Look at Baros in Euro 2004. Would most teams touch him with a bargepole now?? Would he fetch any more than £5m now?? And all this from a player who put the likes of the mighty Holland to the sword so breathtakingly a mere two years ago. The list is endless, El Hadji Diouf was the big one we got stung on.. Diego Forlan has been fabulous in Spain and a joy to watch in the CL, Sir Alex saw enough though..

 

Which kinda brings us round to Morientes. So he believes that he's beginning to find the form that Liverpool fans have been waiting for, 18 months down the line, and a handful of games before the end of his second campaign. Not good enough Nando.

 

He also concedes in his interview that some players only begin to play when its crunch time, when contract renewal or a review of the situation is on the cards. Well arguably, with him hitting the back of the net in two of his last few outings, a MASSIVE improvement on the non-exhistent displays of before, the same accusation could be levelled at the man himself. The pressure on, make or break, lets go all out to convince everyone. Again NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone to have seen the lad fail, but it should teach us a lesson about looking at players who've proven themselves at the highest level, in entirely different competition to the gruelling 38 games of the Premiership. There's more to it than how many goals you've scored or how good you look in a Cup competition.

 

By the same token though, like many I'd like to see us bring in some truly World Class talent, and there's little to go round in the Premiership at the moment that can be considered anything more than mere potential. The likes of Bent, Defoe and co are all "good" players but what we need is the next step up, the Van Nistelrooy's of this World.

 

There's alot riding on this Summer and if reports are to be believed, alot of money too. Which is why it's important that Rafa gets it 100% right.

 

People may argue that Rafa has been hit and miss in the transfer market, with the likes of Josemi, Nunez and Pellegrino failing so miserably. But financially, if you look at his successes compared to his failures, we have a multimillion pound set of very good players and a pittance wasted on those less successful. Five out of six of Rafa's "big" signings have been a success in one way or another, with Morientes the most high profile failure and Alonso, Sissoko, Reina, Garcia and Crouch the plus points. So he's shown that when given a reasonable amount to spend he has a good success rate.

 

Anyone who's watched the reserves and youth team this season will know that he's also spent well and bolstered us for the future on that front. More youngsters seem to be being looked at with the latest a lad who's played a mere two games for Rushden & Diamonds. Just shows that the scouts aren't just spending their time sunning it up looking for the next Raul. Paul Anderson was another who'd barely figured for his club before we stepped in, look at him now..

 

So all in all there's a lot to be optimistic about, and while I do have some reservations, I trust Rafa enough to get the players we need, provided he's given the backing. You get what you pay for and you rarely get a World Class striker for six or seven million quid. Lets just not get wasteful like Chelsea, blowing almost £30m on a workhorse.

 

We've got the workhorse, we're flogging the showpony, now lets get our very own thoroughbred and start putting the bigboys to the sword, it's been coming..

 

Should we really judge players by what we see in the CL and International competition??

[RedinSweden]

Im sure I read Rafa yesterday saying that it would be ideal for us to get any potential transfer deals sewn up before the World Cup this summer. Now, apart from the obvious financial reasons like players who we are looking to sign having a good tournament and their prices going through the roof, it means we won't be distracted by players who go all out to put themselves in the shop window.

 

I also constantly hear people drooling over this player and that player because of their success in this seasons CL, but do the words Fernando Morientes mean nothing to everyone?? Probably not, but he's the prime example of a player who was in the shop window at Monaco and on a different stage to the one that we need him on, 38 games a season. A slower paced game, more space, less aggression and closing down, tailor made for a any player with strong technical ability. Sadly a million miles from the hustle and bustle of our very own English game.

 

Look at Baros in Euro 2004. Would most teams touch him with a bargepole now?? Would he fetch any more than £5m now?? And all this from a player who put the likes of the mighty Holland to the sword so breathtakingly a mere two years ago. The list is endless, El Hadji Diouf was the big one we got stung on.. Diego Forlan has been fabulous in Spain and a joy to watch in the CL, Sir Alex saw enough though..

 

Which kinda brings us round to Morientes. So he believes that he's beginning to find the form that Liverpool fans have been waiting for, 18 months down the line, and a handful of games before the end of his second campaign. Not good enough Nando.

 

He also concedes in his interview that some players only begin to play when its crunch time, when contract renewal or a review of the situation is on the cards. Well arguably, with him hitting the back of the net in two of his last few outings, a MASSIVE improvement on the non-exhistent displays of before, the same accusation could be levelled at the man himself. The pressure on, make or break, lets go all out to convince everyone. Again NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone to have seen the lad fail, but it should teach us a lesson about looking at players who've proven themselves at the highest level, in entirely different competition to the gruelling 38 games of the Premiership. There's more to it than how many goals you've scored or how good you look in a Cup competition.

 

By the same token though, like many I'd like to see us bring in some truly World Class talent, and there's little to go round in the Premiership at the moment that can be considered anything more than mere potential. The likes of Bent, Defoe and co are all "good" players but what we need is the next step up, the Van Nistelrooy's of this World.

 

There's alot riding on this Summer and if reports are to be believed, alot of money too. Which is why it's important that Rafa gets it 100% right.

 

People may argue that Rafa has been hit and miss in the transfer market, with the likes of Josemi, Nunez and Pellegrino failing so miserably. But financially, if you look at his successes compared to his failures, we have a multimillion pound set of very good players and a pittance wasted on those less successful. Five out of six of Rafa's "big" signings have been a success in one way or another, with Morientes the most high profile failure and Alonso, Sissoko, Reina, Garcia and Crouch the plus points. So he's shown that when given a reasonable amount to spend he has a good success rate.

 

Anyone who's watched the reserves and youth team this season will know that he's also spent well and bolstered us for the future on that front. More youngsters seem to be being looked at with the latest a lad who's played a mere two games for Rushden & Diamonds. Just shows that the scouts aren't just spending their time sunning it up looking for the next Raul. Paul Anderson was another who'd barely figured for his club before we stepped in, look at him now..

 

So all in all there's a lot to be optimistic about, and while I do have some reservations, I trust Rafa enough to get the players we need, provided he's given the backing. You get what you pay for and you rarely get a World Class striker for six or seven million quid. Lets just not get wasteful like Chelsea, blowing almost £30m on a workhorse.

 

We've got the workhorse, we're flogging the showpony, now lets get our very own thoroughbred and start putting the bigboys to the sword, it's been coming..

 

Should we really judge players by what we see in the CL and International competition??

 

so, what are you trying to say?

[RedKnight]

That's far too much to read. Just give me the jist of it.

[GOLDMEMBER]

That's a very big posts i got bored half way through it, and didnt read the rest.

[GeoffM]

That's far too much to read. Just give me the jist of it.

 

morientes isnt very good, Rafa has been a bit hit and miss in the transfers but will get it right this season, we need world class players but not those that have performed well in the champions league or world cup, i think that sort of sums it up, not really sure.

[cochcaer]

Is this another buy Owen post? If so, feck orf.

[RedKnight]

morientes isnt very good, Rafa has been a bit hit and miss in the transfers but will get it right this season, we need world class players but not those that have performed well in the champions league or world cup, i think that sort of sums it up, not really sure.

 

So basically just telling us what we already knew.

[Duncan Clench]

I think he wants Owen!

[GeoffM]

I think he wants Owen!

 

not it Owen plays well in the world cup though.

[GOLDMEMBER]

not it Owen plays well in the world cup though.

What if he doesn't then?

[GeoffM]

What if he doesn't then?

 

fucking sign him up! :whistle:

[GOLDMEMBER]

fucking sign him up! :whistle:

HELL YEAH

[Stu Monty]

Im sure I read Rafa yesterday saying that it would be ideal for us to get any potential transfer deals sewn up before the World Cup this summer. Now, apart from the obvious financial reasons like players who we are looking to sign having a good tournament and their prices going through the roof, it means we won't be distracted by players who go all out to put themselves in the shop window.

 

I also constantly hear people drooling over this player and that player because of their success in this seasons CL, but do the words Fernando Morientes mean nothing to everyone?? Probably not, but he's the prime example of a player who was in the shop window at Monaco and on a different stage to the one that we need him on, 38 games a season. A slower paced game, more space, less aggression and closing down, tailor made for a any player with strong technical ability. Sadly a million miles from the hustle and bustle of our very own English game.

 

Look at Baros in Euro 2004. Would most teams touch him with a bargepole now?? Would he fetch any more than £5m now?? And all this from a player who put the likes of the mighty Holland to the sword so breathtakingly a mere two years ago. The list is endless, El Hadji Diouf was the big one we got stung on.. Diego Forlan has been fabulous in Spain and a joy to watch in the CL, Sir Alex saw enough though..

 

Which kinda brings us round to Morientes. So he believes that he's beginning to find the form that Liverpool fans have been waiting for, 18 months down the line, and a handful of games before the end of his second campaign. Not good enough Nando.

 

He also concedes in his interview that some players only begin to play when its crunch time, when contract renewal or a review of the situation is on the cards. Well arguably, with him hitting the back of the net in two of his last few outings, a MASSIVE improvement on the non-exhistent displays of before, the same accusation could be levelled at the man himself. The pressure on, make or break, lets go all out to convince everyone. Again NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone to have seen the lad fail, but it should teach us a lesson about looking at players who've proven themselves at the highest level, in entirely different competition to the gruelling 38 games of the Premiership. There's more to it than how many goals you've scored or how good you look in a Cup competition.

 

By the same token though, like many I'd like to see us bring in some truly World Class talent, and there's little to go round in the Premiership at the moment that can be considered anything more than mere potential. The likes of Bent, Defoe and co are all "good" players but what we need is the next step up, the Van Nistelrooy's of this World.

 

There's alot riding on this Summer and if reports are to be believed, alot of money too. Which is why it's important that Rafa gets it 100% right.

 

People may argue that Rafa has been hit and miss in the transfer market, with the likes of Josemi, Nunez and Pellegrino failing so miserably. But financially, if you look at his successes compared to his failures, we have a multimillion pound set of very good players and a pittance wasted on those less successful. Five out of six of Rafa's "big" signings have been a success in one way or another, with Morientes the most high profile failure and Alonso, Sissoko, Reina, Garcia and Crouch the plus points. So he's shown that when given a reasonable amount to spend he has a good success rate.

 

Anyone who's watched the reserves and youth team this season will know that he's also spent well and bolstered us for the future on that front. More youngsters seem to be being looked at with the latest a lad who's played a mere two games for Rushden & Diamonds. Just shows that the scouts aren't just spending their time sunning it up looking for the next Raul. Paul Anderson was another who'd barely figured for his club before we stepped in, look at him now..

 

So all in all there's a lot to be optimistic about, and while I do have some reservations, I trust Rafa enough to get the players we need, provided he's given the backing. You get what you pay for and you rarely get a World Class striker for six or seven million quid. Lets just not get wasteful like Chelsea, blowing almost £30m on a workhorse.

 

We've got the workhorse, we're flogging the showpony, now lets get our very own thoroughbred and start putting the bigboys to the sword, it's been coming..

 

Should we really judge players by what we see in the CL and International competition??

 

 

I'd like to think that any player who has a good world cup would already be known about by our scouting team so they shouldn't be swayed by a few games.

[Sangria]

Hope if we do sign any they turn out better than the last batch. Mind you we could never get it that wrong again.

[Paul]

Not very welcoming of you there, boys.

[sammya]

Of course we won't buy a player on the basis of four games. That was what your first sentence was about. I don't know why you are dismissing a player's previous performances as an indicator of ability. That's truly barmy.

[Jari37]

Not very welcoming of you there, boys.

quite. shame on you, losers. welcome st. michael to our pale shadow of a once-mighty football forum.

[RedKnight]

I wasn't being unwelcoming, just flippant.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

morientes isnt very good, Rafa has been a bit hit and miss in the transfers but will get it right this season, we need world class players but not those that have performed well in the champions league or world cup, i think that sort of sums it up, not really sure.

 

Rafa's first team signings:

Reina: HIT

Kromkamp: HIT

Agger: Will be a HIT

Josemi: MISS

Pelligrino: MISS (Influence was crucial though in sorting out zonal marking)

Momo: HIT

Xabi: HIT

Nunez: MISS (doesn't really count as we didn't have much choice in taking him)

Zenden: HIT

Luis: HIT

Morientes: MISS

Crouch: HIT

 

Not a bad track record so far. He's been quick to despatch HIS failures, all for profit.

 

We all got sold on the Morientes thing, even Rafa :yes:

[kopitegaz]

Players only trying towards the end of a season/contract is something we have seen before, and something even fathead mentioned recently with regards to Emile Heskey. If you look at it, he always did well at the end of every season with us, apart from the treble year when he was awesome oct-mar and shite in the run in. Steve Bruce said last week, we want Emile to do what he did last year at the end of the season and score 4 in 9 ... oh it did sound familiar as it happened in 2002, 2003 and 2004....

[Guest tactics truck]

Italian media reports have today claimed that Fiorentina have made a late move for Valencia wing-back Fabio Aurelio.

 

The Brazilian is out of contract and will leave Valencia at the end of this season. Liverpool were seen as favourites for Aurelio and the player was in advanced talks with LFC officials last month. However, it is claimed that negotiations have cooled, allowing Fiorentina director general Pantaleo Corvino to make a move for the defender.

[RedinSweden]

Italian media reports have today claimed that Fiorentina have made a late move for Valencia wing-back Fabio Aurelio.

 

The Brazilian is out of contract and will leave Valencia at the end of this season. Liverpool were seen as favourites for Aurelio and the player was in advanced talks with LFC officials last month. However, it is claimed that negotiations have cooled, allowing Fiorentina director general Pantaleo Corvino to make a move for the defender.

 

Too late. He has already transferred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in my Pro Evo 5

[dave u]

Too late. He has already transferred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in my Pro Evo 5

 

And in real life too.

[RedinSweden]

And in real life too.

 

Pro Evo 5 is awlays correct. Apart from Cisse's first touch being ace.

[Guest tactics truck]

Too late. He has already transferred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in my Pro Evo 5

Ace.

If he doesn't I'm sure you can send the Grove Street Ballas in to sort him out.