Coronavirus

[Bjornebye]

33 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Trump can't do his conferences in the runnup to the election so he's doing these instead because it's the only chance he's got to get on telly. He will just make more and more strange and 'newsworthy' claims the closer they get to the election, even if disinformation risks lives. He's a firm believer in all publicity is good publicity, and to be fair he's been proven right. Looks like he's already angling to get rid of his medical advisor.

 

Sometimes I wonder how the people around him can work with him or let him get away with what he does, but then I think of all the company meetings I've sat in over the years where people have said black was white or up was down and received lots of nodding smiling heads in return. People will do pretty much anything for a job.

Spot on. 

[Anubis]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Sometimes I wonder how the people around him can work with him or let him get away with what he does....

 

Wage plus payoff equals Benjy’s. Lots of em.

 

 

[Sugar Ape]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241987921.html
 

 

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

7 hours ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/exclusive-private-schools-furlough-staff-at-tapayers-expense-a4411321.html

 

Private schools are furloughing staff under the taxpayer funded Covid-19 scheme even as they demand parents pay 90% of their fees for next term despite lockdown.

 

News that taxpayer largesse is helping some of the wealthiest schools in the country pay their wage bills may raise further concerns following the row over Premier League football clubs.

 

Parents contacted the Evening Standard to complain that the UK’s biggest private girls schools group, the Girls’ Day School Trust, was only giving a 10% discount for next term even though schools will probably be closed and staff on furlough.

 

GDST, which runs 25 private schools including Putney High and Wimbledon High, confirmed it is furloughing staff, largely in transport, catering and “estates management”.

 

A spokeswoman said: “Like many companies GDST is going to be furloughing staff to ensure our longevity long term.”

 

However, GDST is not a company in the sense most people would understand.

It is actually a charity, and a wealthy one, with income last year of £258.7 million and luxurious offices in the landmark Bressenden Place office development by Victoria Station.

 

Like most other private schools, its charitable status means it need pay no corporation tax and qualifies for reduced business rates.

 

Despite that, it is still eligible for taxpayer-funded furlough cash.

 

The spokeswoman said some parents were getting more than 10% off fees next term and said operational savings it was making from Covid-19 would go into its hardship fund to help parents pay fees.

 

Teachers at other charity-status school groups reported having been furloughed for three weeks, allowing schools to get taxpayer funding for their payroll over the easter holidays.

 

One said the school would review his furlough in a fortnight when the school knew how many parents had cancelled for the summer term.

Wealthy football clubs such as Liverpool FC were vilified for leaning on the furlough scheme, but private schools say they should not be put in the same bracket.

 

Neil Roskilly of the Independent Schools Association said many schools were expecting a tough time as parents hit by the economic impact of coronavirus pull their children out.

 

“There’s this image of private schools being these very well-funded organisations like Eton and Harrow, but the vast majority are nothing like that.

 

They are having to look hard at their teaching staff and think about such things as furloughing,” he said.

 

Many are braced for falling fees in the summer term at the same time as having to invest in IT for home learning.

 

“Schools are doing whatever they can to keep fees down for parents while at the same time costs have not come down at all,” he said.

 

The impact on private schools is highlighted by the for-profit upmarket Alpha Plus group of schools, which include Prince Harry and William’s £7,700 a term prep school Weatherby.

 

It has bonds listed on the London Stock Exchange whose value has plummeted from £102 before the covid outbreak to just £61 last month – implying a rising risk of default. They have partially recovered to £77.90.

 

Alpha Plus, backed by property tycoon John Ritblat, said it was planning to keep teachers on the payroll but added that it may furlough "a limited number". It said: "We are considering and working through this now."

 

He said fees for summer term had  been dropped 20%. Those parents who could afford the full 100% were being asked to pay it so the 20% could go towards the fees of those who cannot.

 

Alpha Plus lost £9.7 million last year after investing heavily in its schools. It brought in £111 million in revenues, largely from fees and accommodation, and got a £650,000 tax credit.

 

Even before Coronavirus, it had to cut fees at its Falcons School for Boys pre-prep school by 12% and admitted pupil numbers had not grown as much as expected at Falcons School for Girls.

Start shopping the bastards:

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

(I am aware this is for the DWP, however a few thousand people start spamming the grass mailbox with Virgin, EasyJet, Tescos et al, might make someone sit up and take notice.

and if it stops some poor fucker getting blown up for window cleaning whilst signing on, so be it)

[Anubis]

3 hours ago, Audrey Witherspoon said:

If that’s a stand collapsing can you edit it and fuck it off? It’s a bit sick.

Sorry, I hadn’t watched it properly. Have asked Dave to remove it and apologise for any offence it caused.

[Mudface]

Christ- UK scraps plans to buy thousands of ventilators from Formula One group

 

Quote

 

While the BlueSky machine was capable of ventilating patients, clinicians on the government’s technical design authority and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) found it was not suited for treating Covid-19.

This is because fluid builds up in the lungs of coronavirus patients faster than in people suffering from other ailments. The devices must be switched to a different setting while the patient’s lungs are being cleared and the BlueSky machine did not lend itself to frequent changes.

 

 

Quote

Dyson’s brand new CoVent prototype is not thought to have undergone rigorous testing yet, while another device made by a Cambridge-based company called Science Group is also untried.

 

Lucky we're not in a crisis or anything, like. Would it have been so difficult to model the design on the existing ventilators so we get like-for-like?

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

Christ- UK scraps plans to buy thousands of ventilators from Formula One group

 

 

 

Lucky we're not in a crisis or anything, like. Would it have been so difficult to model the design on the existing ventilators so we get like-for-like?

 

They probably want to use this crisis to patent their own tech, more than to actually help. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but as soon as I heard "Dyson" I though something ridiculous like this would happen. These aren't consumer products, they're tried and tested medical grade equipment refined over decades and this is not the time for prototypes.

 

By offering to help, the problem they should be trying to solve is lack of machines, not lack of innovation in the machines we do have.

[JohnnyH]

On 28/02/2020 at 08:33, rb14 said:

What a load of old bollocks. Totally predictable hysterical overreaction. I'll be staggered if 50 people in this country die of COVID-19. Check-in fella at Heathrow said people had been going through security then changing their minds and leaving without flying! Suvarnabhumi Airport was almost empty. Certainly made my life easier. Quiet airports and quieter hotels. What's not to like? 

 

Don't touch newspapers. I'm guessing it's a funny meme but it's just as likely not. 

 

1700 people died of flu in the UK last year; not a word. 

 

I was looking back at the early posts on this thread, and saw this post that I'd completely forgotten about. I'm genuinely not having a go at the poster as loads felt like this. In fact, it's exactly the problem. I'm just using it to say that this is why Governments need to be strong from the start.  People were overly confident, if not cocky, about this virus. Making jokes about how great it is because of quiet airports. Or confidentially stating they'll be "staggered if 50 people die", clearly with no idea what they were talking about.  So when you have gormless gobshites like the Prime Minister bragging that he'll "keep shaking hands" it strengthens people's views like the above that they are right, and it's all hysteria.  And of course, by the time they realise the issue is real, it's too late, and bloke confidently shaking hands while telling everyone it's all bollox, has infected loads.  

 

I wonder now in the future when the next pandemic comes around will we all be a lot quicker to accept there may be a major issue, and erring on the side of caution saves likes.

 

Of course, there are still plenty who think countries have overreacted.  Even as the death toll climbs. Like Trump supporters, or Brexit hardliners, you'll never change their view.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

3 hours ago, Anubis said:

Sorry, I hadn’t watched it properly. Have asked Dave to remove it and apologise for any offence it caused.

No probs dude, didn’t think it was malicious, but I know there have been a few stadium disasters over there so thought it could be real.

[Spy Bee]

6000 more people died last week than a standard week, but government figures say there were only 3400 CV deaths.

[Section_31]

50 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 

I was looking back at the early posts on this thread, and saw this post that I'd completely forgotten about. I'm genuinely not having a go at the poster as loads felt like this. In fact, it's exactly the problem. I'm just using it to say that this is why Governments need to be strong from the start.  People were overly confident, if not cocky, about this virus. Making jokes about how great it is because of quiet airports. Or confidentially stating they'll be "staggered if 50 people die", clearly with no idea what they were talking about.  So when you have gormless gobshites like the Prime Minister bragging that he'll "keep shaking hands" it strengthens people's views like the above that they are right, and it's all hysteria.  And of course, by the time they realise the issue is real, it's too late, and bloke confidently shaking hands while telling everyone it's all bollox, has infected loads.  

 

I wonder now in the future when the next pandemic comes around will we all be a lot quicker to accept there may be a major issue, and erring on the side of caution saves likes.

 

Of course, there are still plenty who think countries have overreacted.  Even as the death toll climbs. Like Trump supporters, or Brexit hardliners, you'll never change their view.

In some ways though some of the blame has to go to the media and ourselves for the way we share stuff online that's not always accurate and true. 

 

It's created something of a 'boy who cried wolf' society. Swine flu, SARS, MERS were all going to be the next Spanish flu. CJD was going to kill '10 million Brits by 2010'. The bottom line is that our sources of information can't be trusted and that's had a knock-on effect in terms of making us probably a bit slower to react than we otherwise should be. 

 

The way the government briefings are handled now is a case in point, they've kind of gone down the Trump model of just peddling bare faced lies. Nobody believes most of it, but even if you call it out they just repeat the lie. Where do you go next with a situation like that? 

 

"Antibody tests mate? I've got millions of em! Ventilators? I've got 10,000 in me shed, I had to stop building them because they were so good they were making people high!"

 

[Brownie]

9 hours ago, Sugar Ape said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241987921.html
 

 

FLORIDA MAN...

[JohnnyH]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

In some ways though some of the blame has to go to the media and ourselves for the way we share stuff online that's not always accurate and true. 

 

It's created something of a 'boy who cried wolf' society. Swine flu, SARS, MERS were all going to be the next Spanish flu. CJD was going to kill '10 million Brits by 2010'. The bottom line is that our sources of information can't be trusted and that's had a knock-on effect in terms of making us probably a bit slower to react than we otherwise should be. 

 

The way the government briefings are handled now is a case in point, they've kind of gone down the Trump model of just peddling bare faced lies. Nobody believes most of it, but even if you call it out they just repeat the lie. Where do you go next with a situation like that? 

 

 

 

 

 

But I think even the idea of "boy who cried wolf" as an excuse is the issue.  Nowadays everyone demands everything is 100% right.  If it isn't then you may as well be 100% wrong.  Therefore, if a major health emergency doesn't become a pandemic then it was a waste of time, instead of sensible precaution.  This leads to not just a lack of trust, but a cocky rejection like in the post I quoted. The issue we have is a lack of the type of education that teaches you research and critical analysis is one of the most important things you can do, especially now.  

 

"Balance" is a huge issue too. Doctors who specialise in the area are having to share screen time with virtual reality show twats, and because of how society has changed, the reality star will be believed more.  Even in the sport we love we see it. Fans take a footballers view on something political as verbatim and "spot on" with no critical review.  They'll take that view over an actual subject matter expert if it empowers their view.  

 

We need to stop looking at the reaction to things like SARs as a mistake, but as a lessen and where strong action taken, a necessary precaution.  We need to stop treating everything in black and white, or on who is saying it as opposed to what is being said.  We’re seeing that in Ireland at the moment too. Lots of bleating clearly based on who is talking, not what they’re saying.  If people could just listen and form a view on the words, as opposed to who was saying them, we’d be a lot better off. 

 

We’ve known about “fake news” and inaccurate online stuff for years.  We can only use that as an excuse for so long, before we have to start blaming ourselves for not analysing what we’re being told.

[Funkasy]

Ok a whole week now without any new cases here in the faroe islands, it feels like its over for now and we are slowly opening again, we are probably safe until the airport opens again and its possible for the virus to come back. So far so good for us. Hope all the best for the rest of you out there. 

[SasaS]

23 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

6000 more people died last week than a standard week, but government figures say there were only 3400 CV deaths.

They are still not adding non-hospital deaths in the UK? If not, that is about right, figures from France and Belgium, where they do, show that non-hospital numbers make up 40% of their total. That would explain the excess of 2600 deaths.

[Mudface]

16 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 

But I think even the idea of "boy who cried wolf" as an excuse is the issue.  Nowadays everyone demands everything is 100% right.  If it isn't then you may as well be 100% wrong.  Therefore, if a major health emergency doesn't become a pandemic then it was a waste of time, instead of sensible precaution.  This leads to not just a lack of trust, but a cocky rejection like in the post I quoted. The issue we have is a lack of the type of education that teaches you research and critical analysis is one of the most important things you can do, especially now.  

 

"Balance" is a huge issue too. Doctors who specialise in the area are having to share screen time with virtual reality show twats, and because of how society has changed, the reality star will be believed more.  Even in the sport we love we see it. Fans take a footballers view on something political as verbatim and "spot on" with no critical review.  They'll take that view over an actual subject matter expert if it empowers their view.  

 

We need to stop looking at the reaction to things like SARs as a mistake, but as a lessen and where strong action taken, a necessary precaution.  We need to stop treating everything in black and white, or on who is saying it as opposed to what is being said.  We’re seeing that in Ireland at the moment too. Lots of bleating clearly based on who is talking, not what they’re saying.  If people could just listen and form a view on the words, as opposed to who was saying them, we’d be a lot better off. 

 

We’ve known about “fake news” and inaccurate online stuff for years.  We can only use that as an excuse for so long, before we have to start blaming ourselves for not analysing what we’re being told.

Good Morning Britain had Sven-Goran Eriksson on this morning talking about the Swedish response. Bizarre.

[Spy Bee]

11 minutes ago, SasaS said:

They are still not adding non-hospital deaths in the UK? If not, that is about right, figures from France and Belgium, where they do, show that non-hospital numbers make up 40% of their total. That would explain the excess of 2600 deaths.

ONS today says only 10% of deaths are occuring outside the hospital. That's because nobody is getting tested in the community.

[Pureblood]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/more-bad-news-on-the-long-term-effects-of-the-coronavirus.html

 

The coronavirus may attack T cells, similar to HIV

Another study from researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai and the New York Blood Center provides more harrowing evidence for the long-term consequences of contracting the virus. According to the findings published in the journal Cellular & Molecular Immunology, when the researchers initiated contact between COVID-19 and lab-grown T lymphocytes — better known as T cells — the virus disabled the cells, which help identify and eliminate pathogens in the body. The researchers also found that SARS, a related coronavirus, could not infect T cells. The study found that COVID-19’s damage to the T lymphocytes resembled that caused by HIV.

[SasaS]

20 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 

But I think even the idea of "boy who cried wolf" as an excuse is the issue.  Nowadays everyone demands everything is 100% right.  If it isn't then you may as well be 100% wrong.  Therefore, if a major health emergency doesn't become a pandemic then it was a waste of time, instead of sensible precaution.  This leads to not just a lack of trust, but a cocky rejection like in the post I quoted. The issue we have is a lack of the type of education that teaches you research and critical analysis is one of the most important things you can do, especially now.  

 

"Balance" is a huge issue too. Doctors who specialise in the area are having to share screen time with virtual reality show twats, and because of how society has changed, the reality star will be believed more.  Even in the sport we love we see it. Fans take a footballers view on something political as verbatim and "spot on" with no critical review.  They'll take that view over an actual subject matter expert if it empowers their view.  

 

We need to stop looking at the reaction to things like SARs as a mistake, but as a lessen and where strong action taken, a necessary precaution.  We need to stop treating everything in black and white, or on who is saying it as opposed to what is being said.  We’re seeing that in Ireland at the moment too. Lots of bleating clearly based on who is talking, not what they’re saying.  If people could just listen and form a view on the words, as opposed to who was saying them, we’d be a lot better off. 

 

We’ve known about “fake news” and inaccurate online stuff for years.  We can only use that as an excuse for so long, before we have to start blaming ourselves for not analysing what we’re being told.

I think overall the reaction of governments was much quicker than I expected, no government will be willing to pay a high economic price until it is clear that shit is hitting the fan, that is political suicide, political expediency will always come before responsible behaviour. Italy needed to happen for Europe to get going, and Europe needed to happen for the most of the West to get going.

 

In countries that were not hit that hard but reacted quickly a different problem will now arise, the fact that authorities don't know what do to. On one hand, there is no point continuing with these measures because the epidemic will never stop, it will never go to zero before vaccine and they don't want to admit they don't know how to organize a society which will have to live with covid. So they will be hiding behind unnecessary restrictive measures and destroying what is left of the economy because they don't know anything else, and even if they did, they are not willing to accept the responsibility.

[Barrington Womble]

I've had a phone consultation with the hospital this morning, 2 big things of note

 

1. Loads of staff are going into work because the NHS can't/won't provide them with laptops. 

2. They are currently gearing up for a relaxation of restrictions in 3 weeks time. 

[Scott_M]

Good. I hope there is a public hanging.

 

[Spy Bee]

13 minutes ago, TK421 said:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/more-bad-news-on-the-long-term-effects-of-the-coronavirus.html

 

The coronavirus may attack T cells, similar to HIV

Another study from researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai and the New York Blood Center provides more harrowing evidence for the long-term consequences of contracting the virus. According to the findings published in the journal Cellular & Molecular Immunology, when the researchers initiated contact between COVID-19 and lab-grown T lymphocytes — better known as T cells — the virus disabled the cells, which help identify and eliminate pathogens in the body. The researchers also found that SARS, a related coronavirus, could not infect T cells. The study found that COVID-19’s damage to the T lymphocytes resembled that caused by HIV.

That really doesn't represent the study's findings at all.

[Scott_M]

3 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

2. They are currently gearing up for a relaxation of restrictions in 3 weeks time. 

I read something the other day that the earliest possible relaxation of lockdown would be 8th May, which is a Bank Holiday. 
 

Dunno how true it is. 

[Dr Nowt]

16 minutes ago, TK421 said:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/more-bad-news-on-the-long-term-effects-of-the-coronavirus.html

 

The coronavirus may attack T cells, similar to HIV

Another study from researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai and the New York Blood Center provides more harrowing evidence for the long-term consequences of contracting the virus. According to the findings published in the journal Cellular & Molecular Immunology, when the researchers initiated contact between COVID-19 and lab-grown T lymphocytes — better known as T cells — the virus disabled the cells, which help identify and eliminate pathogens in the body. The researchers also found that SARS, a related coronavirus, could not infect T cells. The study found that COVID-19’s damage to the T lymphocytes resembled that caused by HIV.

Fucking hell. Hope this one isn’t stood up by other studies.

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

That really doesn't represent the study's findings at all.

Oh yeah, TK posted it so it can't be true.