Interesting Comments from Carra...

[VladimirIlyich]

Carragher’s just a latter-day version of Andy Gray, is he not?

In fairness Tone,he and Neville do seem more informed than 'elbows' Gray ever was. You still have a point regarding the need for it in the first place. And the age old question 'If they know so much why aren't they managing or coaching?' This is where the ability to understand relate it to players comes in. I take my hat off to Steven Gerrard for actually giving the coaching side a go when doubts were raised about him having the desire or drive to go into that side of the game given that he was pretty bland when giving interviews while Carra was always more outwardly passionate.

[dockers_strike]

Being a tv pundit is a good gravy train to get onto unlike football management where you may have to start off in the arse end of nowhere with a shitty ground and even shittier training facilities not to mention getting the sacked regularly.

[magicrat]

In fairness Tone,he and Neville do seem more informed than 'elbows' Gray ever was. You still have a point regarding the need for it in the first place. And the age old question 'If they know so much why aren't they managing or coaching?' This is where the ability to understand relate it to players comes in. I take my hat off to Steven Gerrard for actually giving the coaching side a go when doubts were raised about him having the desire or drive to go into that side of the game given that he was pretty bland when giving interviews while Carra was always more outwardly passionate.

 

Punditry largely comes down to the former players ability to be reasonably articulate and being able to convey some of the passion they had as players. To have an in-depth over-view of the game is beyond the vast majority of them and despite Jockey's protestations, they know little more (or less in some cases) than many fans that follow the game closely,  As for making good managers then its often a different skill set, Bob Paisley a good player rising to Captain of Liverpool , became one of the greatest managers of all time but he would have been a useless pundit,   

[VladimirIlyich]

Punditry largely comes down to the former players ability to be reasonably articulate and being able to convey some of the passion they had as players. To have an in-depth over-view of the game is beyond the vast majority of them and despite Jockey's protestations, they know little more (or less in some cases) than many fans that follow the game closely, As for making good managers then its often a different skill set, Bob Paisley a good player rising to Captain of Liverpool , became one of the greatest managers of all time but he would have been a useless pundit,

I don't disagree with you much at all on this and absolute key to it all is communication. Great coaches/managers have always found a way to get their message across to the players they work with and its no coincidence that many of those have a little bit of teaching experience in their make up. This is often where simply promoting a top class player into the manager's chair has failed spectacularly. You simply have to get your point across to the players in some way and we are fortunate enough to have a manager who is particularly good at this.

[Pureblood]

If you don't watch any analysis I don't think you can criticise it.

[magicrat]

I don't disagree with you much at all on this and absolute key to it all is communication. Great coaches/managers have always found a way to get their message across to the players they work with and its no coincidence that many of those have a little bit of teaching experience in their make up. This is often where simply promoting a top class player into the manager's chair has failed spectacularly. You simply have to get your point across to the players in some way and we are fortunate enough to have a manager who is particularly good at this.

 

Agreed.  Hoddle, Keegan Reid etc etc 

[VladimirIlyich]

If you don't watch any analysis I don't think you can criticise it.

I've watched far more of it than I wished I had.

[Pureblood]

I've watched far more of it than I wished I had.

 

Honestly I think you're all over the place here and looking at things through one eye.  You say that promoting top class players to the manager's chair often fails spectacularly, conveniently overlooking the fact that it often yields the desired results; Guardiola, Conte, Simeone to name but a few (not to mention our very own Kenny Dalglish). 

[VladimirIlyich]

Honestly I think you're all over the place here and looking at things through one eye. You say that promoting top class players to the manager's chair often fails spectacularly, conveniently overlooking the fact that it often yields the desired results; Guardiola, Conte, Simeone to name but a few (not to mention our very own Kenny Dalglish).

I'd say they were the exception rather than the rule. Overseas managers/coaches also serve more of an apprenticeship in coaching too. As for Kenny,you'd always hear him crediting Paisley,Moran et al for helping him find his managerial feet.

[Strontium]

I'd say they were the exception rather than the rule

All successful managers are an exception. Most managers will win sod all in their lifetimes.

[The Guest]

My main issue with it is the links between players and pundits. You can’t get away from it but the biasedness is clearly there and I don’t necessarily mean the obvious ones. For example the other night when United got knocked out. It was on Mourinho. There was no getting away from it. He made bad decisions in team selection and tactics. He had them far too negative against a clearly inferior team.

 

Lineker put it to Gerrard a number of times that surely the manager is at fault and he could just not bring himself to say it. He would divert to it being about the players desire and then made a comment about showing them too much respect which Lineker then asked again surely that comes from the managers instructions which Gerrard again ignored.

 

Now I’m not sure if it’s just because Gerrard really likes Mourinho or if he’s seen how he reacts to pundits and De Boer in particular this week that makes him just think I just don’t want to get involved but if that were another manager he would have said it. The best pundits aren’t afraid to call out anyone. Even Carra and Neville fail there though. Again Mourinho being on their list and Rooney is another.

[magicrat]

My main issue with it is the links between players and pundits. You can’t get away from it but the biasedness is clearly there and I don’t necessarily mean the obvious ones. For example the other night when United got knocked out. It was on Mourinho. There was no getting away from it. He made bad decisions in team selection and tactics. He had them far too negative against a clearly inferior team.

 

Lineker put it to Gerrard a number of times that surely the manager is at fault and he could just not bring himself to say it. He would divert to it being about the players desire and then made a comment about showing them too much respect which Lineker then asked again surely that comes from the managers instructions which Gerrard again ignored.

 

Now I’m not sure if it’s just because Gerrard really likes Mourinho or if he’s seen how he reacts to pundits and De Boer in particular this week that makes him just think I just don’t want to get involved but if that were another manager he would have said it. The best pundits aren’t afraid to call out anyone. Even Carra and Neville fail there though. Again Mourinho being on their list and Rooney is another.

 

It's anti-bias . Gerrard feared a backlash on social media if he ripped into Utd and played it safe. Liverpool legends being negative, even when deserved, about Utd , or via versa for that matter just gets them dogs abuse so they avoid it. Gerrard has always been pretty dull and wooden anyway when on the box. Hope his coaching is better.

Souness tried to bite his tongue after the game "saying he had to be careful because of the Liverpool connection, but thought fuck it then called it as it was and laid into Mourinho and most of the players. Pogba got a full broadside. I like Souness , one of the few that gets it right most of the time and doesn't hold back, 

[Jairzinho]

It's anti-bias . Gerrard feared a backlash on social media if he ripped into Utd and played it safe. Liverpool legends being negative, even when deserved, about Utd , or via versa for that matter just gets them dogs abuse so they avoid it. Gerrard has always been pretty dull and wooden anyway when on the box. Hope his coaching is better.

Souness tried to bite his tongue after the game "saying he had to be careful because of the Liverpool connection, but thought fuck it then called it as it was and laid into Mourinho and most of the players. Pogba got a full broadside. I like Souness , one of the few that gets it right most of the time and doesn't hold back, 

 

Being on Sky or BT must also be a factor. They appear to favour pundits that say absolutely nothing of value. Certainly about English teams anyway. La liga coverage on Sky, and the European Football Show on BT, which I think might have finished, sadly, are considerably better.

 

The coverage on Irish telly is much better. 

[Priory Doctor]

The fact remains that, irrespective of their achievements as professional footballers, both Sky and BT have employed ex footballers as experts.

The same guys who you wouldn't trust to put a cross in a ballot box in the right place .

I give you David James and Paul Merson as examples

And as for the idea that you should respect their views more, as they were ex pro's, if you apply that to any other walk of life,then that argument falls flat.

Ex Police chiefs,MP's eg.

[magicrat]

Being on Sky or BT must also be a factor. They appear to favour pundits that say absolutely nothing of value. Certainly about English teams anyway. La liga coverage on Sky, and the European Football Show on BT, which I think might have finished, sadly, are considerably better.

 

The coverage on Irish telly is much better. 

 

Can't comment on Irish TV as don't get to watch it. You're right about Sky and BT pundits

Seems to be the prime quality required is to be a vacuous knob .

[Jairzinho]

Can't comment on Irish TV as don't get to watch it. You're right about Sky and BT pundits

Seems to be the prime quality required is to be a vacuous knob .

 

It's only what I see on here -

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/CelticArchitect/videos?disable_polymer=1

 

Some of them, especially Dunphy, can be a massive throbber. But they're at least interesting to listen to. They say stuff.

 

And not just the regulars pundits, but the current and recent players that go on the program like Dunne, Duff, etc.

[magicrat]

It's only what I see on here -

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/CelticArchitect/videos?disable_polymer=1

 

Some of them, especially Dunphy, can be a massive throbber. But they're at least interesting to listen to. They say stuff.

 

And not just the regulars pundits, but the current and recent players that go on the program like Dunne, Duff, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the link. 

[Pureblood]

The fact remains that, irrespective of their achievements as professional footballers, both Sky and BT have employed ex footballers as experts.

The same guys who you wouldn't trust to put a cross in a ballot box in the right place .

I give you David James and Paul Merson as examples

And as for the idea that you should respect their views more, as they were ex pro's, if you apply that to any other walk of life,then that argument falls flat.

Ex Police chiefs,MP's eg.

 

Regardless of any personal or political gripe I would expect an ex police chief to know more than me about policing crime.  I would, probably not unreasonably, expect an MP to know more about the goings on in Parliament than me.

 

Surely somewhere there is a happy middle ground in which you can acknowledge that someone who has devoted their life to the extent that they made a professional career of football has some insight to offer the layman.  

[VladimirIlyich]

Regardless of any personal or political gripe I would expect an ex police chief to know more than me about policing crime. I would, probably not unreasonably, expect an MP to know more about the goings on in Parliament than me.

 

Surely somewhere there is a happy middle ground in which you can acknowledge that someone who has devoted their life to the extent that they made a professional career of football has some insight to offer the layman.

If they do have insight then they are mostly keeping it to themselves.

[Ginny]

Carragher was a great and loyal player for us. But to be honest if he wasn’t a scouser or playing for Liverpool I’d think the fella was a complete bellend, and not just for the spitting incident. He just comes across as a tool and the type of person I’d avoid at a party.

[Red74]

Even with my social anxiety and extremely limited knowledge of football and footballers outside of LFC. I reckon I’d fancy my chances going up against Dean Saunders in a studio.

[magicrat]

Carragher was a great and loyal player for us. But to be honest if he wasn’t a scouser or playing for Liverpool I’d think the fella was a complete bellend, and not just for the spitting incident. He just comes across as a tool and the type of person I’d avoid at a party.

 

I've always quite like Carragher off the field , Seems a bright bloke and has a genuine passion for the game,  Schoolboy error losing his rag with some Manc wum for which he will learn a harsh lesson,  

[corro]

Know a few Bootle lads who knocked around with him and his brother. They weren't surprised at what he did. They reckon he's a sound lad but has a short fuse. I remember him lashing the coins back at the Arsenal fans years ago.

He's fucking useless on Sky. Comes across as a right gobshite.

[Pureblood]

If they do have insight then they are mostly keeping it to themselves.

 

 

All of them offer insight of some sort, even the Robbie Savages of this world.  Someone like Carragher, who reached the very top of his profession, has an abundance of it.

 

Whether you choose to listen is, of course, up to you.  You can retain your sneering "I know so much better" stance but I think it makes you come across as myopic and narrow minded. Just my opinion.

[Tony Moanero]

Know a few Bootle lads who knocked around with him and his brother. They weren't surprised at what he did. They reckon he's a sound lad but has a short fuse. I remember him lashing the coins back at the Arsenal fans years ago.

He's fucking useless on Sky. Comes across as a right gobshite.

Why do you think he comes across as a gobshite?