Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

I don't think I did, other than the life long peace activist bit. I wasn't commenting in terms of British politics, I commented on the video in a broader context. I think the statement is detrimental to the cause of peace and is in part self-serving, as in, sends the wrong message as a whole. It isn't helping the peace effort. Demands Putin made before the invasion were deliberately formed so as to be unacceptable. He wanted to invade, he doesn't want to talk at the moment, that is the reality of the situation. Therefore, Putin, as the aggressor should be met by a united front. Corbyn refers to himself as a prescient minority voice of dissent or something. Now it's not the time for that.  This only encourages the aggressor.

Corbyn has quite clearly condemned Putin and Russia for this invasion. Now he is calling for peace and diplomacy. You're are dressing it up to suit an agenda and avoiding what he's actually said and is saying. The usual anti-Corbyn bollocks. 

[Pureblood]

Self-serving? Corbyn is finished as far as personal ambition goes. 

[Strontium]

12 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Yep, I'm glad I've got him on ignore!

 

Fucking in hell. Regardless of the extent upon which you agree with him or not, SasaS is, by any metric, one of the most thoughtful posters on this site. The last thing you need is to be expanding your ignorance so gleefully. 

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Corbyn has quite clearly condemned Putin and Russia for this invasion. Now he is calling for peace and diplomacy. You're are dressing it up to suit an agenda and avoiding what he's actually said and is saying. The usual anti-Corbyn bollocks. 

Then we must agree to disagree.

[Lee909]

Talk of peace is great. But fucking useless for the poor bastards fighting to save their country. Putting has just seen how fucking weak all the major nations are politically and NATO has been shown to be worthless in the face if a real threat and not some African Warlord. 

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Fucking in hell. Regardless of the extent upon which you agree with him or not, SasaS is, by any metric, one of the most thoughtful posters on this site. The last thing you need is to be expanding your ignorance so gleefully. 

Well, I do tend to ramble on.

Thanks for the endorsement Strontz, I love you too kiss, kiss. A also love Stig so it is sometimes hard when mammy and daddy are fighting.

[Bjornebye]

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

29 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

Talk of peace is great. But fucking useless for the poor bastards fighting to save their country. Putting has just seen how fucking weak all the major nations are politically and NATO has been shown to be worthless in the face if a real threat and not some African Warlord. 

Worthless how? NATO is a mutual defence pact, and Ukraine isn’t part of it. How is it useless? What are you talking about African Warlords for? 

[Jairzinho]

4 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

FWIW, here's the traitor having his say about Ukraine.

 

I am discustard.

[Captain Howdy]

2 hours ago, M_B said:

Good video that. Peace would be great. If he could just tell that to the man in charge of Russia who publicly stated and wrote that Ukraine should not exist then that would be ace.

And if that doesn’t work I suggest a major and I mean major leaflet campaign.

[Lee909]

56 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Worthless how? NATO is a mutual defence pact, and Ukraine isn’t part of it. How is it useless? What are you talking about African Warlords for? 

 

Just got up  I meant the UN not NATO. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 hours ago, SasaS said:

I have no idea how a Tory would dress it or why would a Tory bother dressing it since they probably view him with a great deal of nostalgia. None of these old antiimperialists live in a real world. Fortunately, most of them are nowhere near actual decision making.

Really? Fortunately?

 

Wouldn't it be better to have the anti-imperialists - rather than the dick-swingers and mass-murderers - in power all over the world?

[Arniepie]

5 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Nothing he says will ever be right for some people, even when asking for peace. 

Compare the statesmanship in that to the tragic bufoonery of that cunt in no 10.

I wonder why that footage of putin riding around with the queen doesn't get shown nowadays?

[Arniepie]

6 hours ago, SasaS said:

The problem with Corbyn's video, apart from the empty rhetoric that we must talk and not make war (well, yeah) and the fact that yet again, he avoided the words "Russian aggression on Ukraine", is that he thinks negotiations should go back to what was allegedly promised 30 years ago, so, no NATO in the east, which is what the aggressor wants and which was done without consulting the wishes of people in the Ukraine, many of them not yet born at the time. As if Russia would then leave neutral, demilitarized Ukraine alone, to try to join the EU, or build a proper democracy.

It is yet again this assumption you can find in Chomsky, Pilger etc, and is no being picked up by parts of the right wing, that it is all about the relationship of superpowers, those that were that at the time, ignoring the will, fears, history of the Ukrainians (a type of orientalism in itself or intellectual laziness which would need decolonializing). That Russia has a right to demand what foriegn policy would other countries pursue, what alliance would they join, as a price for peace. Also, many people don't realize how much new, regional powers influence what is going on around them, those on the anti-American left seem for ever stuck in the Cold War divisions and opposition to American imperialism as the only factor.

He literally spent the entire video saying what a cunt putin was and at the very beginning utterly condemned the invasion by showing what they were doing.

[Arniepie]

5 hours ago, M_B said:

Good video that. Peace would be great. If he could just tell that to the man in charge of Russia who publicly stated and wrote that Ukraine should not exist then that would be ace.

Is this the same man who he has been warning the world about for the last 10 years whilst Blair and Bush welcomed with open arms?

[Arniepie]

5 hours ago, SasaS said:

I have no idea how a Tory would dress it or why would a Tory bother dressing it since they probably view him with a great deal of nostalgia. None of these old antiimperialists live in a real world. Fortunately, most of them are nowhere near actual decision making.

Yep thank god we gave a certain boris johnson at the helm

 

[M_B]

11 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Is this the same man who he has been warning the world about for the last 10 years whilst Blair and Bush welcomed with open arms?

Touche. But yes, that man.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

My only real question about that video is, unfortunately, probably the most pertinent one. He says that the solution to the current crisis will be peace achieved through political pressure on Russia and that there's no military solution; theoretically, that's true. But that takes time. How do you achieve peace now.

 

Any Ukrainian civilians in the path of Russian armed forces need them to be stopped tonight. Maybe it's just my lack of expertise and/or imagination, but I see footage of that massive Russian convoy and all I can think is "somebody needs to bomb the fuck out of that".

[Numero Veinticinco]

31 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

My only real question about that video is, unfortunately, probably the most pertinent one. He says that the solution to the current crisis will be peace achieved through political pressure on Russia and that there's no military solution; theoretically, that's true. But that takes time. How do you achieve peace now.

 

Any Ukrainian civilians in the path of Russian armed forces need them to be stopped tonight. Maybe it's just my lack of expertise and/or imagination, but I see footage of that massive Russian convoy and all I can think is "somebody needs to bomb the fuck out of that".

Yep. Sometimes perfect just isn’t an option. This is clearly one of those times. The timing and tone of that video is badly misjudged in my view. He clearly cares about people, don’t get me wrong; we all want this fantasy chinwag to stop the violence, but a you rightly say there’s a three mile convoy of death - young, poor lads who don’t want to be there, with decade old rations and shoddy hardware - rolling in to kill and be killed. Putin’s talks will clearly be ‘give me what I want and I’ll save some ammo’ which is not a negotiating position. The only time he would back down is when it’s impossible for him to take it by force. It’s clear what he wants, it’s clear that he is willing to do what it takes to get it. Send in a CIA or MI6 agent and end him. That’s as peaceful an end as we will likely get to this. 

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Really? Fortunately?

 

Wouldn't it be better to have the anti-imperialists - rather than the dick-swingers and mass-murderers - in power all over the world?

Probably, but only if they came to power simultaneously everywhere. Take this obsession with NATO for example, if it was disbanded tomorrow, you would have 3 or 4 wars in Europe alone within a couple of years, plus several involving Russia.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Probably, but only if they came to power simultaneously everywhere. Take this obsession with NATO for example, if it was disbanded tomorrow, you would have 3 or 4 wars in Europe alone within a couple of years, plus several involving Russia.

Which potential European wars are you thinking of?

[Megadrive Man]

6 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

 

 

 

 

Corbyn on the wrong side of history again I see.

[SasaS]

18 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Which potential European wars are you thinking of?

I think Turkey and Greece would quickly slid into a war, Greece may attack Macedonia, Serbia would try to regain Kosovo, Serbian part of Bosnia would go independent and cause a war, with all those right wing populists cropping up everywhere everybody would be taking out historic maps, Hungary may try to take back territories lost after WWI to Romania and elsewhere. I think it would be like dominos of total instability. What you may now see as unthinkable, such as Spain falling apart in a bloody conflict, may suddenly be a real danger.

[A Red]

Corbyn when not in power said that NATO should disband itself and that it was only formed to promote the cold war. He said that NATO was effectively just a tool for the delivery of oil and sale of arms. When looking to get in power the rhetoric changed somewhat saying that it should restrict its role and become more democratic but would not confirm whether he would go to the defence of another NATO member attacked by Russia.

 

Corbyn the protester was one of the leaders of CND and wanted rid of the UK's nuclear deterrent and cancelling of Trident. When looking to get in to power the cancelling of Trident was not in the manifesto put to conference. Corbyn refused to say whether he would use nuclear weapons if attacked, effectively nullifying the deterrence.

 

Corbyn the protestor says one thing and Corbyn the potential leader says another. Luckily, with regard to the situation in Ukraine, he is irrelevant. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 hours ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

Corbyn on the wrong side of history again I see.

Pretty easy to look good when things are cherrypicked and displayed in isolation.