Middle East Thread

[ratcatcher]

That's ridiculous. Nazism was a fascistic political ideology and far-right party political movement. The Jews are an ethnocultural group of people. He's not a Nazi, he's a Revisionist Zionist, a facistic political ideology and a far right political movement. Not much irony, just a word meaning something similar. A distinction with little difference.

 

Then again, maybe I'm just a Holocaust denier?

 

I dont know, are you?

 

But you are right, calling a jewish person a nazi is ridiculous. Just like I said.

 

Do you want to post this thread up in the busy bastards bitch fest?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I dont know, are you?

 

But you are right, calling a jewish person a nazi is ridiculous. Just like I said.

 

Do you want to post this thread up in the busy bastards bitch fest?

Are you going to say anything of value or address my post in any way?

 

No, I'm not a Holocaust denier, of course, and obviously I'm saying your attempt to draw a false equivalence between calling somebody a Nazi and being a Holocaust denier is ridiculous. I was being polite, because it isn't just ridiculous but ignorant and offensive.

[stringvest]

That scenario isnt going to happen. As I said, Jewish people have lived there for thousand's of years. Even in Palestine, there were Jewish people living there. The State of Israel was created by an influx of European Jewish people so the obsession with America is pretty baseless.

 

In the absence of the impossible happening (relocation or moving of the Jewish homeland to some unrelated part of the planet), all sides need to talk. Im not denying there are bad deeds being done by the State of Israel. Equally, there are some bad deeds being done in the name of Palstine.

 

Jewish people lived in that area, and across the world, for hundreds of years. The 'obsession' with the US is that they were key to creating the State of Israel.  And your use of the word 'equally' to suggest some sort of equivalence between the death and destruction inflicted on the Palestinians by the Israelis and vice versa is either idiotic or a cynical attempt, often used by Zionists, to present a lie as a fact.

[ratcatcher]

Are you going to say anything of value or address my post in any way?

 

No, I'm not a Holocaust denier, of course, and obviously I'm saying your attempt to draw a false equivalence between calling somebody a Nazi and being a Holocaust denier is ridiculous. I was being polite, because it isn't just ridiculous but ignorant and offensive.

 

Dont give it the faux offence guff. And I havent attempted anything. Try reading posts and opening your mind instead of running with a crowd. and you'll see I asked a question.

 

As I said, do you want to flag this up in your busy bastards thread?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Dont give it the faux offence guff. And I havent attempted anything. Try reading posts and opening your mind instead of running with a crowd. and you'll see I asked a question.

 

As I said, do you want to flag this up in your busy bastards thread?

Try reading posts? What have a misread? I don't have a busy bastard thread. But I guess it serves the purpose of deflecting from what I said.

[stringvest]

Anyway, it's been fun, as ever, this one.  

[ratcatcher]

Jewish people lived in that area, and across the world, for hundreds of years. The 'obsession' with the US is that they were key to creating the State of Israel.  And your use of the word 'equally' to suggest some sort of equivalence between the death and destruction inflicted on the Palestinians by the Israelis and vice versa is either idiotic or a cynical attempt, often used by Zionists, to present a lie as a fact.

 

The US didnt create Israel and they were no more 'key' to creating it than the rest of the UN. Palestine was a UK mandate. After WW2, many European Jewish people 'migrated' to Palestine. a good number of those were from Soviet terrritory for the benefit of Mr nando.

 

The UN came up with a plan to create 2 autonomous states, one of Israel one of Palestinians. History shows the plan was accepted to the Jewish people but not the Palestinians.

 

The land would have become a de facto state of jewish people.

 

My use of 'equally' is to just use it as that. Equally blame, equally atrocities, equally sufferring, equally denial. Open your eyes and your mind.

[ratcatcher]

Try reading posts? What have a misread? I don't have a busy bastard thread. But I guess it serves the purpose of deflecting from what I said.

 

I used the 'your' as a kind of royal 'we.' You know which thread I mean. Nice but no cigar.

[stringvest]

The US didnt create Israel and they were no more 'key' to creating it than the rest of the UN. Palestine was a UK mandate. After WW2, many European Jewish people 'migrated' to Palestine. a good number of those were from Soviet terrritory for the benefit of Mr nando.

 

The UN came up with a plan to create 2 autonomous states, one of Israel one of Palestinians. History shows the plan was accepted to the Jewish people but not the Palestinians.

 

My use of 'equally' is to just use it as that. Equally blame, equally atrocities, equally sufferring, equally denial. Open your eyes and your mind.

 

I prefer objectivity.  There is no equivalence here.  And I understand how Israel came about.  I've even gone beyond Wikipedia.  

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

My use of 'equally' is to just use it as that. Equally blame, equally atrocities, equally sufferring, equally denial. Open your eyes and your mind.

My eyes and mind are open. If my eyes weren't open, I wouldn't be able to tell this post was utter bollocks.

[stringvest]

My eyes and mind are open. If my eyes weren't open, I wouldn't be able to tell this post was utter bollocks.

 

You need to close one eye and shut down 99.5% of your brain's capacity to think rationally to entertain that mulch. 

[ratcatcher]

I prefer objectivity.  There is no equivalence here.  And I understand how Israel came about.  I've even gone beyond Wikipedia.  

 

Im glad you've come into the real world and are also using UN documents instead of wiki!

 

My eyes and mind are open. If my eyes weren't open, I wouldn't be able to tell this post was utter bollocks.

 

Your post utter bollocks? I wouldnt go that far, flawed maybe.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I used the 'your' as a kind of royal 'we.' You know which thread I mean. Nice but no cigar.

Yes, but I don't know why you're bringing it up? It seems like a strange attempt to deflect. Do you disagree with my post. A post which, if true, makes your initial statement look very silly. If you do disagree with it, on what grounds? Of course a Jew can follow the political idealogy of the Nazis (National socialist party). Just like the Finnish Jews could fight for Nazi Germany. In fact, many follow a very similar brand of political ideology within Zionism, in the Likud party and others. Nazi was clearly being used as a discrptor. You talking about Holocaust denial, denial of the worst single crime in human history in my view, is just close minded, cockeyed thinking.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Your post utter bollocks? I wouldnt go that far, flawed maybe.

Is this really the best you can must. Witless retorts and deflection? Come on.

[ratcatcher]

Yes, but I don't know why you're bringing it up? It seems like a strange attempt to deflect. Do you disagree with my post. A post which, if true, makes your initial statement look very silly. If you do disagree with it, on what grounds? Of course a Jew can follow the political idealogy of the Nazis (National socialist party). Just like the Finnish Jews could fight for Nazi Germany. In fact, many follow a very similar brand of political ideology within Zionism, in the Likud party and others. Nazi was clearly being used as a discrptor. You talking about Holocaust denial, the worst single crime in human history in my view, is just close minded, cockeyed thinking.

 

What are you ranting about? Ive answer the question, do I think a jewish person can be a nazi? Answer, No I dont think a jewish person can be a nazi. End of, simple as. A no is a no.

 

I took issue with someone calling a Jewish PM a nazi. Do you have a problem with that?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

What are you ranting about? Ive answer the question, do I think a jewish person can be a nazi? Answer, No I dont think a jewish person can be a nazi. End of, simple as. A no is a no.

So, it's safe to say that you disagree with my post stating that Jews are a ethnocultural group of people and there's nothing stopping them buying into whatever political ideology they want. That's fine. I was just asking on what grounds. What is it about being born a Jew that stops you from following that ideology?

 

I took issue with someone calling a Jewish PM a nazi. Do you have a problem with that?

A problem with what, that you took issue with what is essentially a correct discription of a person using terminology that invokes thoughts of right wing ideology and nationalism or do I disagree with Jair's characterisation? No I don't have a problem with you expressing whatever view you like, I was just expressing my view that yours was ignorant, and no I don't have an issue with Jair's description of a nasty piece of work, even if I'd describe him as a Zionist. However, as I said, it's a distinction without much of a difference as far as ideology goes; fascistic nomenclature aberrations don't detract from an otherwise fairly accurate characterisation.

 

Hopefully that answers your questions. Mine is, as above, what is it about being born a Jew that stops you from following that ideology? There's nothing more stopping a Jew following the Nazi doctrine than the is an Arab being a liberal democrat.

[ratcatcher]

So, it's safe to say that you disagree with my post stating that Jews are a ethnocultural group of people and there's nothing stopping them buying into whatever political ideology they want. That's fine. I was just asking on what grounds. What is it about being born a Jew that stops you from following that ideology?

 

 

A problem with what, that you took issue with what is essentially a correct discription of a person using terminology that invokes thoughts if right wing ideology and nationalism or do I disagree with Jair's characterisation? No I don't have a problem with you expressing whatever view you like, I was just expressing my view that yours was ignorant, and no I don't have an issue with Jair's description of a nasty piece of work, even if I'd describe him as a Zionist. However, as I said, it's a distinction without much of a difference as far as ideology goes; fascistic nomenclature aberration doesn't detract from an otherwise fairly accurate characterisation.

 

Hopefully that answers your questions. Mine is, as above, What is it about being born a Jew that stops you from following that ideology? There's nothing more stopping a Jew following the Nazi doctrine than the is an Arab being a liberal democrat.

 

Good for you. I do have an issue with anyone calling a Jewish person a nazi. And I dont think the terminology which you claim is 'essentially a correct description' is correct. He plainly isnt a nazi, end of. But if you or a few others think he is, Im not going to convince you otherwise (and that wasnt my intention).

 

We fundementally disagree. Im not stating the Israeli PM is a nice guy just that he's not a nazi. He may be or he may not be a 'nice guy.' But I guess one's opinion on that  depends on people's view of things such as the State of Israel, the Palestinian question, 'zionism' and a few other bibs and bobs.

 

I actually think its a bit reprehensible yourself and a few others constantly refering to 'jew' this or that. You sound like you have an agenda.

 

As Ive said, the way to resolve the problem with Israel and Palestine is to talk. Some people such as yourself want to get caught up in the side issues. Must admit I did myself responding to the 'nazi' slur.

 

Live and learn I guess, eh?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I actually don't think it does depend on your views on Israel's actions. It is just a matter of accepting what these words mean and that they're not mutually exclusive. I don't think you answered the question in regards your statement about unable to be a Jew and a Nazi. I'm asking what specifically precludes a Jew from being a Nazi?

 

I don't think 'Bibi' is far of Nazism. There are many more similarities between Revisionist Zionism and Nazism than there are differences. That's quite easy to demonstrate. If that's true, Hair has fair cause to use something descriptive in the way he did. Still, that's not my main issue.

 

My issue here is that where you point to irony of calling the Jewish leader a Nazi and saying you couldn't do so unless you were a holocaust denier. I think that's demonstrably wrong and the result of some very strange logic. Why would you have to be a Holocaust denier to say that? I don't get the link. Making the false link between the two is akin to Israel's propaganda machine crying 'antisemitism' when Israel's politics and policy are questioned. It makes no sense.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

As for calling Jews Jews, what's reprehensible about that? As far as I can tell, I've used it as a noun and in no way pejoratively.

[ratcatcher]

As for calling Jews Jews, what's reprehensible about that?

 

Sounds harsher, more aggressive and antagonistic than refering to them as Jewish people, dont you think?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Sounds harsher, more aggressive and antagonistic than refering to them as Jewish people, dont you think?

No.

[ratcatcher]

I actually don't think it does depend on your views on Israel's actions. It is just a matter of accepting what these words mean and that they're not mutually exclusive. I don't think you answered the question in regards your statement about unable to be a Jew and a Nazi. I'm asking what specifically precludes a Jew from being a Nazi?

 

I don't think 'Bibi' is far of Nazism. There are many more similarities between Revisionist Zionism and Nazism than there are differences. That's quite easy to demonstrate. If that's true, Hair has fair cause to use something descriptive in the way he did. Still, that's not my main issue.

 

My issue here is that where you point to irony of calling the Jewish leader a Nazi and saying you couldn't do so unless you were a holocaust denier. I think that's demonstrably wrong and the result of some very strange logic. Why would you have to be a Holocaust denier to say that? I don't get the link. Making the false link between the two is akin to Israel's propaganda machine crying 'antisemitism' when Israel's politics and policy are questioned. It makes no sense.

 

Oh dear, you see you've fallen over at least twice.

 

Look. The original response I did to a post calling the Jewish PM a 'nazi' was

 

The irony of calling a Jewish PM a 'nazi,' you couldnt make such shit up. Unless you're a halocaust denier.

 

If you want that to equate to

 

and saying you couldn't do so unless you were a holocaust denier.

that's up to you but its wrong on so many levels but essentially a crass act of not understanding English (which we all do from time to time).

 

You then blather on about why cannot 'jews' be of (essentially) the same ideology. But, we arent talking all 'jews' (yet another side issue), the discussing was about the Israeli PM. I cannot possibly speak for every single jewish person and their ideology. But even then, that's just a poor attempt to diviate from the post.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Why can't 'a Jewish PM' be a Nazi.

[ratcatcher]

No.

 

Anti semitic then?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Anti semitic then?

No. Jew is the correct noun and in no way derogatory or pejorative.

 

There's a Jew who replied here who puts it quite well.

 

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091128231500AA9FibJ