Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Champ]

Even when the UK was accepted as a member of the EU the noises were that Scotland wouldn't automatically be given EU status. I don't fancy our chances economically on the northern tip of Europe and out of the EU. Or say somehow we were then it seems tariffs would likely be imposed on goods traded with our largest market, ie the rest of the UK

[cloggypop]

Indeed plus it makes you grow ginger hair and a kilt

Luckily, it also gives you alcohol and drug addiction so you hardly notice.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Even when the UK was accepted as a member of the EU the noises were that Scotland wouldn't automatically be given EU status. I don't fancy our chances economically on the northern tip of Europe and out of the EU. Or say somehow we were then it seems tariffs would likely be imposed on goods traded with our largest market, ie the rest of the UK

 

Scotland would be fine if they went independent, you'd make gazillions from other countries wanting to base their military in your country to piss the English off. 

[Chairman Meow]

The plan is to re-build Hadrian's Wall and man it with laser cannons.

 

I'm North of the Wall. That sounds good to me.

 

Scotland would be fine if they went independent, you'd make gazillions from other countries wanting to base their military in your country to piss the English off. 

 

If the Scots go independent I'm going to setup a Shortbread and Whiskey smuggling operation. 

[magicrat]

Luckily, it also gives you alcohol and drug addiction so you hardly notice.

 

That's what I like about the Scots. The have answers to the difficult questions, 

[cloggypop]

That's what I like about the Scots. The have answers to the difficult questions,

You have to admire their stoic pragmatism

[Captain Turdseye]

I'm North of the Wall. That sounds good to me.

[Champ]

So, Nicola, tell us your economic plan. You didn't seem to have agreed a plan with anyone else in 2014 and since then oil revenues have gone through the floor and I don't see the EU taking us on with the pound.

 

I could have been tempted to have voted Yes last time had we been shown what the plan for an independent Scotland looked like but we're seeing what that kind of strategy looks like now as we try to demand our way out of Europe and I just don't fancy it

[Section_31]

Would genuinely be interesting to see how the EU react to Scotland. If they absorb an independent Scotland it would give legs to the likes of Catalonia, as their reasoning would be 'we can be independent of Spain and the EU will look after us' as seems to be Sturgeon's shtick. 

 

It seems a bit ridiculous that the SNP can just keep asking for a referendum until they win, surely that defeats the object of a 'once in a generation vote'. Anybody could do that, Labour should ask for a general election every year until they're back in. 

[Jairzinho]

Hope they get another referendum and vote to leave.

[cloggypop]

Spain can just block Catalonia from joining though. The UK can't block Scotland if it's leaving itself.

[Section_31]

Spain can just block Catalonia from joining though. The UK can't block Scotland if it's leaving itself.

 

I think it's more about being able to sell your people a rose-tinted future. Scotland's independence quest has always been based on the EU, pre Credit Crunch Salmond used to use the Irish Republic as a perfect example of a 'small' country that was able to punch above its weight due to EU membership. It's defended, for example, militarily and has access to central bank funds in hard times, plus other protections. This was all skated over though when the Irish got shafted by the EU a few years back.

 

After that it became about north sea oil, twas now instead going to be Texaco and chums that rode to the financial rescue. In fact if Salmond didn't have such bad history with Trump I wouldn't have been surprised if his mother bering Scottish didn't come into these discussions. 

 

The Scots aren't stupid they know they get a good deal from being in the UK. Free uni, prescriptions etc, so in order to sell the dream the SNP basically has to convince them that there's another benefactor willing to take them on - ironic really that the 'independence' argument is, erm, dependant on jumping into bed from one bigger state to another bigger state than can put its arm around you.

 

As I say, if I was Scottish I'd probably be in the SNP and pushing hard for this, good for them, but it's all incredibly cynical. The SNP leadership just want independence at any cost and will use any excuse for another vote, and are willing to promise a golden sky to achieve it. It's ironically quite like what the Brexit mob did.  

[cloggypop]

[magicrat]

Theresa May. The hubris of the woman knows no bounds ,

 

Prime Minister said: "The tunnel vision that the SNP has shown today is deeply regrettable. It sets Scotland on a course for more uncertainty and division, creating huge uncertainty,

 

 

Tunnel vision , she has written the fucking book. Lives ,sleeps, breathes Brexit and has the bareface cheek to say its regrettable Sturgeon has tunnel vision, No attempt whatsoever to listen to 48 % of the population that voted remain,  I am really starting to hate her with vengeance; can't bear her stupid mannerisms , her patronising stupid voice and her utter hypocrisy . Thatcher re-incarnated 

[Champ]

Theresa May. The hubris of the woman knows no bounds ,

 

Prime Minister said: "The tunnel vision that the SNP has shown today is deeply regrettable. It sets Scotland on a course for more uncertainty and division, creating huge uncertainty,

 

 

Tunnel vision , she has written the fucking book. Lives ,sleeps, breathes Brexit and has the bareface cheek to say its regrettable Sturgeon has tunnel vision, No attempt whatsoever to listen to 48 % of the population that voted remain, I am really starting to hate her with vengeance; can't bear her stupid mannerisms , her patronising stupid voice and her utter hypocrisy . Thatcher re-incarnated

I think she may come to out-Thatcher Thatcher

[Guest Pistonbroke]

She'll try, bless her bitch little Tory socks, but she won't be leader long enough. 

[Fugitive]

I'm currently in the process of moving to Scotland and I was a potential new employer on Friday who has said that due to the Gas and Oil sector being on its arse, the market is saturated with people looking for work. The wages most places are offering are a pisstake but people are taking them.

 

They tried to sell the last one off the back of these industries but I can't see how they can do it this time.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I'm currently in the process of moving to Scotland and I was a potential new employer on Friday who has said that due to the Gas and Oil sector being on its arse, the market is saturated with people looking for work. The wages most places are offering are a pisstake but people are taking them.

 

They tried to sell the last one off the back of these industries but I can't see how they can do it this time.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the uncertainty for the UK after Brexit will be the biggest selling point, that and whatever deals Sturgeon is brokering with the EU itself. I guess once any referendum gets the green light that the EU will be promising tasty bites. As I said above, Scotland will be sitting on a little Goldmine if it were to leave the Union, its Land. Countries would be bending over backwards to get military stationed there. 

[mattyq]

Economically Scotland leaving is just as stupid as the UK leaving the EU, perhaps more so

Sturgeon hasn't solved any of the issues last time as far as I know but it'll probably happen as people seem to want to vote in some sort of weird self-destructive, low information and anti-evidence based way

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Economically Scotland leaving is just as stupid as the UK leaving the EU, perhaps more so

Sturgeon hasn't solved any of the issues last time as far as I know but it'll probably happen as people seem to want to vote in some sort of weird self-destructive, low information and anti-evidence based way

 

Sturgeon might be playing a clever card here as far as the SNP goes. She is only going to ask for permission for a Referendum, it is up to May to grant it. Maybe's they are banking on May saying no, what better way to appease your hardened nationalists and maybe gain further support at those miffed at the arrogance of a Tory bitch. If May grants permission they'll hardly lose any hardened nationalists regardless of the outcome. 

[stringvest]

Economically Scotland leaving is just as stupid as the UK leaving the EU, perhaps more so

Sturgeon hasn't solved any of the issues last time as far as I know but it'll probably happen as people seem to want to vote in some sort of weird self-destructive, low information and anti-evidence based way

 

 

I'm not sure how a Scotland in the EU would be any worse off than a Scotland tied to England.  Having an EU member on the British mainland would benefit not only Scotland but England.  Scotland would probably be a net beneficiary in Europe, and on more favourable terms that it currently receives from England.  Can you imagine the potential for new car factories to be opened up in the Borders region?  Maybe Hadrian's wall will be diverted to encapsulate Sunderland within Scotland.  

[magicrat]

Economically Scotland leaving is just as stupid as the UK leaving the EU, perhaps more so

Sturgeon hasn't solved any of the issues last time as far as I know but it'll probably happen as people seem to want to vote in some sort of weird self-destructive, low information and anti-evidence based way

 

I think if I were Scottish up to now I would have taken on board all the very sound economic arguments, looked at oil prices, the shortcomings of the SNP and our chances of getting any sort of deal to remain in the EU quickly then have let my head decide. Now I would be hard pressed to vote to stay in the UK with the Tory cunts taking even less notice than they had for decades about the wishes of Scotland. That plus the fact Labour in England are a shambles and have little prospect of ousting them even with the help of the SNP. 

This is all down  to the Tories blatantly putting the interests of the Conservative party ahead of Country and the Union. 

[Champ]

I'm not sure how a Scotland in the EU would be any worse off than a Scotland tied to England. Having an EU member on the British mainland would benefit not only Scotland but England. Scotland would probably be a net beneficiary in Europe, and on more favourable terms that it currently receives from England. Can you imagine the potential for new car factories to be opened up in the Borders region? Maybe Hadrian's wall will be diverted to encapsulate Sunderland within Scotland.

Nope. Am I being unduly negative but I don't know of any/many large manufacturing plants in any rural region

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Theresa May, without any hint of irony, accuses Sturgeon of "playing politics with a country's future..."

 

ROFLZ!

[mattyq]

I think if I were Scottish up to now I would have taken on board all the very sound economic arguments, looked at oil prices, the shortcomings of the SNP and our chances of getting any sort of deal to remain in the EU quickly then have let my head decide. Now I would be hard pressed to vote to stay in the UK with the Tory cunts taking even less notice than they had for decades about the wishes of Scotland. That plus the fact Labour in England are a shambles and have little prospect of ousting them even with the help of the SNP. 

This is all down  to the Tories blatantly putting the interests of the Conservative party ahead of Country and the Union. 

Yup, I agree with all of that.

I'd be very tempted if I lived in Scotland

Always, for me, the bottom line...I wouldn't want to see the value of my house, pension, wage etc fall dramatically 

Now with the UK exiting the EU all our Sterling assets have depreciated 20%,,,if Scotland left the UK thee'y fall a lot more than that