Glasgow Rangers go in to liquidation

[Laburnum]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

[JohnnyH]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

 

Reading a few different pieces (Thomson from C4 has been good also) I think your biggest worry now is that you completely cease to be. I think your hopes of getting in div 1 are all but gone also and so div 3 is your best bet. In fact, at this rate, I think you’ll have been lucky if that’s as bad as it gets.

 

It’s a complete mess and I feel genuinely sad for you and your supporters.

 

Listening to bellend Liverpool fans on here tarring all Rangers and Celtic fans with the same brush is hard to stomach also. You’d think Liverpool fans, of all fans, would know about the annoyance of stereotyping and demonising a whole fan base because of a few idiots. I guarantee it’s only coming from people who’ve never actually spent any real time in Scotland and around both fan bases.

 

You have my absolute sympathy mate. Horrible serious of events.

[FanchesterCity]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

 

This is the thing...

 

Whilst we all love our clubs and why like the believe that in some way, we are part of that club, the harsh reality it, we are paying punters into a business. That business can get lucky and some rich sheik pops along (although the long term effects of that might be a disaster), or you can have some 'iffy businessman', or just a whacky bunch of owners.... and the club is effectively their plaything.

 

When something goes well or badly wrong, we the fans are just passengers along for the ride. Liverpool almost went into administration only a couple of years ago... I mean, LIVERPOOL??? we aren't talking a small club here.

 

City have had years of stupid spending (from the late 70s) that left the club paying off debts for over 25 years, and seeing the football just get worse and worse.

 

It's happened to Leeds (no small club).

 

I'm just not sure this is quite what the average fan signed up for.

 

How long before there's another Rangers?... people laugh when you say United next? or Liverpool next? - but there's a club somewhere who will fall...

I shudder to think what will happen if the Sheik gets bored. I'm sure United fans worry what will happen after Fergie goes and they don't get in CL every season.

 

I wouldn't wish it on any fan either.

[JohnnyH]

“Series” Fucking autocorrect……

[Guest San Don]

What a ridiculous idea! What does this even mean? Playing friendlies all season? And who would even play for them?

 

The Scottish football authorities are making a bit of a pigs ear of this. By not making a strong, no doubt unpopular, decision by stating that Glasgow Rangers no longer exist to all intents and purposes and that any potential new club/company whatever can apply to join the SFL.

 

Of course the whole situation has been clouded by money and greed.

 

The way you talk, you'd think Rangers are the only club never to have reformed! Did acrington stanley(!), middlesbrough and portsmouth etc adopt different 'names' when their parent company went bust?

 

Im no fan of rangers but can we stop this bullshit that GRFC no longer exist?

[Guest San Don]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

 

I think what is happening to rangers is an absolute disgrace.

 

From that shyster who 'bought' the club with the club's own seassie ticket money, the dullards at the SFA \ SPL who let it happen (not a good enough owner's test), HMRC who are the biggest bunch of bastards ever to walk the earth (I've no time for that institution at all it is so corrupt) who wouldnt accept a CVA and would rather the Exchequer lost money to make a point, to the other scottish clubs who are no doubt sticking the knife in to settle some old scores but would want leniency if they were in the same position.

 

I dont think anyone believes there should be no punishment, but it seems to me the SFA \ SPL want to punish both the old and new regimes for one 'crime.' And in any reasonable world, that cannot be counternanced.

[No2]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

 

Is there no appetite up there for a real "new-co"? A new club set up by the fans, by passing all the money men. If it could be organised quickly you could have a situation where stained Rangers MII are competing for 1 place in the SFL with non-stained Rangers MII. 40000 season ticket holders renewing right now for a season ticket next year and ownership of the club seems a great idea to me, only hitch is a lack of somewhere to play but that must be a price worth paying (renting Hampden seems the ideal temporary scenario).

[Laburnum]

Reading a few different pieces (Thomson from C4 has been good also) I think your biggest worry now is that you completely cease to be. I think your hopes of getting in div 1 are all but gone also and so div 3 is your best bet. In fact, at this rate, I think you’ll have been lucky if that’s as bad as it gets.

 

It’s a complete mess and I feel genuinely sad for you and your supporters.

 

Listening to bellend Liverpool fans on here tarring all Rangers and Celtic fans with the same brush is hard to stomach also. You’d think Liverpool fans, of all fans, would know about the annoyance of stereotyping and demonising a whole fan base because of a few idiots. I guarantee it’s only coming from people who’ve never actually spent any real time in Scotland and around both fan bases.

 

You have my absolute sympathy mate. Horrible serious of events.

Thanks Johnny always appreciated your point of view, put me in my place a couple of times and happy to admit I was wrong :) Thomson is not a very popular man up here right now, well with the Bears. He was happy to pass on a gif which was deemed to be funny involving the Ibrox distaster monument. He later apologised saying he didn't know about the statue. Only to be proved a liar when he comments on it during a video blog.

 

I do worry about our existence. The problem we have is the blind hatred of so many short sighted fans who would see thier own club harmed so that we are punished (further punished) all in the name of the buzz catchphrase up here just now 'sporting integrity' Our league was dying anyway, this is just speeding up the process. It's we, the fans who are suffering, we have ploughed millions into our club and game and are being tortured. The death of a thousand cuts. EVERY day brings bad news and I mean every day.

[xerxes]

I think what is happening to rangers is an absolute disgrace.

 

From that shyster who 'bought' the club with the club's own seassie ticket money, the dullards at the SFA \ SPL who let it happen (not a good enough owner's test), HMRC who are the biggest bunch of bastards ever to walk the earth (I've no time for that institution at all it is so corrupt) who wouldnt accept a CVA and would rather the Exchequer lost money to make a point, to the other scottish clubs who are no doubt sticking the knife in to settle some old scores but would want leniency if they were in the same position.

 

I dont think anyone believes there should be no punishment, but it seems to me the SFA \ SPL want to punish both the old and new regimes for one 'crime.' And in any reasonable world, that cannot be counternanced.

A curious view.

 

I think , that after decades of obfuscation by the football authorities north and south of the border, and supine indifference by legislative authorities, a line is finally being drawn.

 

Whyte may well have fraudulently acquired the Club, if so, he will have his day in court. Your criticism of the “fit and proper persons” test north of the border is harsh, it is similarly weak south of the border. Structurally, and legally, banning someone because of what they might do is the perennial problem. It will only be solved when Directors have to offer personal financial guarantees for the season.

 

Suggesting that HMRC are a bigger bunch of bastards than a regime which recently was deducting statutory monies at source and not handing them over, and previous regimes who were apparently ( we shall find out in court) operating EBT’s illegally by making them contractual is a bizarre claim.

 

The days of clubs shafting the St John’s Ambulance brigade and the local florists and newsagents are over. I for one welcome that. Your claim that the exchequer will lose money is speculative, and may well be wrong. For the future it certainly is.

 

HMRC know exactly what the financial status is of the Directors. They will also have made a judgement regarding their relative prospects of success in making personal claims versus the paltry CVA proposal.

 

Long term they will correctly be judging that expulsion from the league, and personal court cases will concentrate the minds of other Directors at other clubs who have been able to shaft all and sundry, and then put their noses back in the trough with impunity as though nothing had happened.

 

It appears that Rangers may have benefited from financial doping not only since the Whyte regime, but for several years previous. The day of reckoning has come.

 

A new regime is not being punished, they can start a fresh club like anyone else. Good luck to them. What they cannot do is have their cake and eat it, like seeking to bank the balance of the Jelavic fee from the oldco whilst the outstanding monies due to Rapid Vienna remain unpaid.

[gumps]

The way you talk, you'd think Rangers are the only club never to have reformed! Did acrington stanley(!), middlesbrough and portsmouth etc adopt different 'names' when their parent company went bust?

 

Im no fan of rangers but can we stop this bullshit that GRFC no longer exist?

 

I think what is happening to rangers is an absolute disgrace.

 

From that shyster who 'bought' the club with the club's own seassie ticket money, the dullards at the SFA \ SPL who let it happen (not a good enough owner's test), HMRC who are the biggest bunch of bastards ever to walk the earth (I've no time for that institution at all it is so corrupt) who wouldnt accept a CVA and would rather the Exchequer lost money to make a point, to the other scottish clubs who are no doubt sticking the knife in to settle some old scores but would want leniency if they were in the same position.

 

I dont think anyone believes there should be no punishment, but it seems to me the SFA \ SPL want to punish both the old and new regimes for one 'crime.' And in any reasonable world, that cannot be counternanced.

 

But they don't exist. That's been accepted and the debate is how to deal with the situation of where GRFC/Newco or whoever come back into football if at all.

 

I know what you're saying SD, and those are good examples, but I think there are some differences with Rangers compared to Accrington, 'Boro and Portsmouth. ?Mainly the attitude of HMRC and possible criminal behaviour.

 

Don't know about Accrington, but Middlesbrough's case was a long time ago (mid 80's?) and the attitude of the league was probably a lot different then concerning administration etc. Portsmouth is more similar in that it involved HMRC, but crucially they didn't follow through with winding up action as in Rangers' case.

 

I agree that this whole situation is a disgrace. I said in an earlier post that I have no time for HMRC (also through personal experience), but it is no secret that they have had their eye on football and the way it runs its finances. Rightly or wrongly I think Rangers have just been the club to take the fall here.

 

There should be another way of dealing with this. At the end of the day, yes pursue the guilty, but the "club" and supporters should not have to suffer.

[xerxes]

Would not wish this situation on my worst enemy. The hurt and anguish is unreal. For the record, I and most Rangers fans believe we should start again in Div 3. We may not have an option as some of the Div 1 clubs are already starting to come out and say they don't want us. My worry is we are in such a sorry state we can't even get into Div 3. There is already talk that we will not kick a ball in anger this season, and who knows if ever. Criminal investigation into the previous bastards in charge of our club. Hope they are locked up for a very long time.

 

It seems to me that Newco in Div 3 is the answer.

 

For practical purposes I cannot see that newco Rangers could start lower than that. But the few years it will take them to return to the SPL willl allow all of the dirty laundry to be washed out of the SPL glare AND with the club demonstrably having "done their time".

 

The wage bill can be slashed to compete with vastly inferior competition, and they wouldn't have been in Europe anyway. Commercially I think that not only will revenues not suffer (apart from existing TV deals), they may even increase with the interest in their story. Furthermore Rangers will be able to negotiate their own terms for TV/radio coverage of games that previously would barely have had an i phone camera on them, let alone a TV camera.

 

If they time it right, they could return to the SPl just as the Europe ban is over and all the court cases have finished with a club refreshed and geared to compete.

[Laburnum]

A curious view.

 

I think , that after decades of obfuscation by the football authorities north and south of the border, and supine indifference by legislative authorities, a line is finally being drawn.

 

Whyte may well have fraudulently acquired the Club, if so, he will have his day in court. Your criticism of the “fit and proper persons” test north of the border is harsh, it is similarly weak south of the border. Structurally, and legally, banning someone because of what they might do is the perennial problem. It will only be solved when Directors have to offer personal financial guarantees for the season.

 

Suggesting that HMRC are a bigger bunch of bastards than a regime which recently was deducting statutory monies at source and not handing them over, and previous regimes who were apparently ( we shall find out in court) operating EBT’s illegally by making them contractual is a bizarre claim.

 

The days of clubs shafting the St John’s Ambulance brigade and the local florists and newsagents are over. I for one welcome that. Your claim that the exchequer will lose money is speculative, and may well be wrong. For the future it certainly is.

 

HMRC know exactly what the financial status is of the Directors. They will also have made a judgement regarding their relative prospects of success in making personal claims versus the paltry CVA proposal.

 

Long term they will correctly be judging that expulsion from the league, and personal court cases will concentrate the minds of other Directors at other clubs who have been able to shaft all and sundry, and then put their noses back in the trough with impunity as though nothing had happened.

 

It appears that Rangers may have benefited from financial doping not only since the Whyte regime, but for several years previous. The day of reckoning has come.

 

A new regime is not being punished, they can start a fresh club like anyone else. Good luck to them. What they cannot do is have their cake and eat it, like seeking to bank the balance of the Jelavic fee from the oldco whilst the outstanding monies due to Rapid Vienna remain unpaid.

Agree with everything you say.

[WaltonRed]

Jamie Ness will end up in the prem

 

Laferty and Naismith to the shite I reckon

[Special K]

Rangers no longer exist. All their trophies count for nothing. Newco have 0 league wins, 0 Scottish cups.

 

I feel for their fans even though I'm not arsed about Scottish footy

[Laburnum]

Rangers no longer exist. All their trophies count for nothing. Newco have 0 league wins, 0 Scottish cups.

 

I feel for their fans even though I'm not arsed about Scottish footy

I have to disagree with that. If you were sat where I am you would feel differently. As long as they play at Ibrox. Wear the Rangers along with the RFC badge. It's only the company who do the business who no longer exist.

[WaltonRed]

they've still got their trophies, its shit and silly to say they dont

[KMD7]

I have to disagree with that. If you were sat where I am you would feel differently. As long as they play at Ibrox. Wear the Rangers along with the RFC badge. It's only the company who do the business who no longer exist.

 

So what does happen mate if a newco is allowed in again say at div 3 level? Are you allowed to keep your trophy haul under RFC or does it stay with the old version of the club? Rough times for you mate you have my sympathy

[Unrighteous]

If it was up to me, I'd have them start in the 3rd division, in fact I'd have them start lower if it wasn't for the fact that the Scottish league pyramid isn't really a pyramid, just 4 leagues and election when there's a space at the bottom. I'm completely apathetic to Rangers (and Celtic for that matter), but just on principle alone, if this is - to all intents and purposes - an all new club, it just feels wrong for them to be arbitrarily inserted back where the old one was - even with sanctions. I know people will say about how the SPL will be Celtic walkover for the next decade, and about TV, gate receipts etc. but no club (or any organisation for that matter) should be "too big to fail".

 

And in the interests of balance I'd have said the same about us and the NW counties (or whatever the actual starting point in the English pyramid is) had things really gone tits up a couple of years ago. Any club should be entitled to a clean break from mis-management and a fresh start, but that fresh start should encompass everything including starting from scratch in a competitive sense. There are examples of clubs in England being rejuvenated by this in the long run (Aldershot and Accrington Stanley spring to mind, Chester too maybe although probably too soon to tell, and AFC Wimbledon obviously, albeit not due to bankruptcy/liquidation).

 

Like I said just my feeling on pure principle (which others are free to disagree with).

 

Agreed.

[FanchesterCity]

So what does happen mate if a newco is allowed in again say at div 3 level? Are you allowed to keep your trophy haul under RFC or does it stay with the old version of the club? Rough times for you mate you have my sympathy

 

They can keep any trophies that were permanently theirs.... just as you could buy / keep someone's FA Cup winners medal for posterity - but it's not 'WON' by them.

 

They get zero points on their tally in Europe too (they don't carry over Rangers points) - by points I mean their 'index' that is used for seeding etc.

 

As far as the world is concerned, they are a brand new pub team who've bought the stadium.

As far as their fans are concerned, it's the same old club, just with new business letterheads - which I can sympathise with.

 

If Liverpool when bust tomorrow, and (say) Kenny Dalglish started up a new team called 'Anfield' - I think the majority of fans would deem is 'Liverpool from the ashes'. Correct me if I'm wrong - but I'd guess they would.

[Laburnum]

So what does happen mate if a newco is allowed in again say at div 3 level? Are you allowed to keep your trophy haul under RFC or does it stay with the old version of the club? Rough times for you mate you have my sympathy

Rangers football club won those trophies. We are Rangers football club. :yes: Others may argue that point though, doesn't matter what they say or think.

[WaltonRed]

Fanchester you've got it wrong, the new gers isnt anything other than the old gers, punished for fucking it up royally

 

in my eyes they still have their trophies, its still the same club, just a different operating name for the company

 

didnt our company name change? have we not won 18 leagues etc etc

[xerxes]

Fanchester you've got it wrong, the new gers isnt anything other than the old gers, punished for fucking it up royally

 

in my eyes they still have their trophies, its still the same club, just a different operating name for the company

 

didnt our company name change? have we not won 18 leagues etc etc

 

Intriguing points WR.

 

I don't think that the enormity of what has happened to Rangers has sunk in yet with the football world. I also think that some may underestimate how much more incompetence/criminality may emerge from future Court cases.

 

In the long run I think that Rangers newco may find it wise to keep their distance from oldco. what the record books will make of this for contnuity of honours I do not know.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Celtic fans want to take away Rangers' honours. Who would have thought it.

[WaltonRed]

Intriguing points WR.

 

I don't think that the enormity of what has happened to Rangers has sunk in yet with the football world. I also think that some may underestimate how much more incompetence/criminality may emerge from future Court cases.

 

In the long run I think that Rangers newco may find it wise to keep their distance from oldco. what the record books will make of this for contnuity of honours I do not know.

 

Yeh and I do hope that something comes of it, Police wise because people have clearly been up to no good and if any of us did it in a business we ran we'd get fingered by the law

 

I also feel it'd help the fans who are suffering to see people who caused it punished

 

You could argue they should lose their trophies won whilst doing the dual contract stuff but i honestly believe the trophies won by 'old' rangers are also 'new' rangers

 

Celtic fans want to take away Rangers' honours. Who would have thought it.

 

This is the main point really, people saying it to wind up the Gers fans. If everton went bust and started again i'd do the same though!

 

Just another point Jelavic said Lafferty is the best partner he's ever played with so I reckon he might be on Moyes list too, he'd be a hate figure for us cos he's a cunt

[Laburnum]

Whilst I understand Celtic supporters asking for trophies to be withdrawn, as the way they see it we were signing players we couldn't afford. I dispute that by saying we were signing players and paying them too much money!! EBT is not a performance enhancing drug as some may imply. Jackie Macnamara who playEd for Celtic at the time said they we were beaten on the park and the trophies should remain. I am sure there are counter arguments to this, but I won't be getting involved in any :D