Little Englander element is our big problem now

[goatboy59]

Strange 'Little Englanders' that so mourned the loss of Xabi Alonso.

 

And also a bit of a delayed reaction, since the all but two aren't English men of Istanbul seemed to be getting on quite well.

 

Quite a few foreigners under Houllier too, and since one of either Murphy or Carragher is alleged to be responsible for the "never beat you boss" lunacy let's treat hints of xenophobia with the contempt they deserve.

 

Since the initial premise is one of Carragher and Gerrard running LFC like Capone ran Chicago, I'm out.

 

You do like starting threads, don't you?

 

Especially liked the Broughton one......

[Delmar]

Anti Little Englanders - ALE, hmmm...

[Antynwa]

Maybe it's just me, but it seemingly seems very niche to go against all things English, or indeed Scouse.

 

I don't know what point you're trying to make, are you saying we should stop actively encouraging our best young local talent? Are you saying we should stop abiding by the 6+5 rule?

 

Don't get me wrong I believe plenty of English players, managers and whatnot are overrated. But this country has produced some of the best talent the world has ever seen, and I am talking about Lampard, Cole, Gerrard, Carra, Owen, Rooney, Scholes to name a few. Not only that Gerrard, Carra, Fowler, Owen have all come up from the acadmey so to completely ignore the bastion of football talent that is Merseyside, is shooting oneself in the foot.

 

What Little Englander mentality are you talking about? I mean going against the grain isn't always a good thing. Yeah broaden your horizons and all that, but don't blind yourself to the talent on your door step.

 

Gerrard and Carra are two of this clubs most loyal servants, the later especially, if he told me the sky was green I'd believe the fella. He's not in the game for greed, he's in it for the love of this club, and he's never went away from trouble, or telling the truth. If Hodgson may or may not have been overrated, but it's clear his words had a profound effect on Gerrard, Torres and Cole. Do you think Torres would have decided to stay without talking to Hodgson?

[TommyW]

whats wrong with Stevie or Carra encouraging the development of local youths in their books (its not worked out too bad for us in the past has it?) and I find it hard to believe those two are in anyway influenced by what is written in the S*n...

[Antynwa]

whats wrong with Stevie or Carra encouraging the development of local youths in their books (its not worked out too bad for us in the past has it?) and I find it hard to believe those two are in anyway influenced by what is written in the S*n...

 

Sometimes I think some Liverpool fans on here just don't like scousers.

[goatboy59]

Just a continuance of the Plots Against Rafa angle that now seems to be the latest little shitfest. Throw enough of it and people will insist the two local stars got rid of him.

 

Great entry in the diary of the last issue about Rafa's 'we want to sign British players, that was always the idea' claim when he brought in Shelvey.

 

"Rafa has bought 9 British players. He's since sold 8 of them, and in total has sold 27 since 2004".

 

Every thread started has been a variation on how dreadful Broughton and Purslow have been.

 

Who did they 'get rid of' again?

 

Transparent? It's virtually invisible.

[El Rojo]

Danny Murphy speaking on the club is about as relevant as Stephen Wright or Bernard Diomede doing so. In the context of the club's history, he isn't vaguely relevant.

 

The irony of him being critical of the last manager and 'them foreigners' replacing English players is that he was Houllier's pet pupil at a time when a large chunk of our squad was French or African, despite three out of his every five passes going straight to the opposition. Don't recall him complaining about the club culture then.

 

Thanks for the Old Trafford goals Danny, but keep your beak shut in future.

[JMARKH]

Regarding Carragher and Gerrard even if they did play a part in getting rid of Rafa so fuckin what, they where probably as pissed off as then fans with some of his bizarre decisions and poor signings.

[TheResonator]

I think the OP's post is interesting and thought-provoking, if a little controversial.

 

Although I wouldn't want to agree that the problem is definitely a 'little Englander' mentality, it was clear to see last season that there are fractures within our squad. I don't imagine Riera and Benayoun were the most popular (for obvious reasons; see Riera slapping Pacheco); Lucas and Masch didn't seem to get allong; Carra didn't look like he trusted either of our midfielders in distribution, and Gerrard looked out-of-sorts for large parts of the year. Now this year it looks as though Gerrard and Torres have fallen out. These issues aren't necessarily to do with xenophobia, but I have thought for a while that our team often looks quite cliquey.

 

Carragher is a club and local legend, and rightly so - but he knows it. Making comments like those he came out with a while ago about how he will leave if he has to sit on the bench put pressure on the manager, that is undeniable, because he has such a massive following. But realistically, he has looked very slow over the last couple of seasons and we should be reaching a point where we're either playing Agger & Skrtel or bringing in a young and improving centre-back to partner one of the above, whether that's Kelly, Ayala or whoever, with Carragher becoming more of a bit-part player like Sami was in his final couple of seasons. Or, if he doesn't want that, leaving the club.

 

I rated Carra as one of the best CBs in the country a couple of years ago and I thought the national team would've been a lot better with him in the setup. However, his game has deteriorated lately and I do not think that he should be starting every game - he certainly shouldn't be undroppable. But the fact that he will not tolerate a bit-part role, combined with his support amongst the fans, makes marginalising him very difficult. That should not be the case. Players should be in the team on merit and nothing else.

 

I also think that Hodgson's appointment was an acquiescence to the media agenda of English managers in English jobs, which took off last year partly due to the World Cup. If you looked at the papers, most of the names touted were O'Neill, Redknapp (until he publicly said he didn't want it), Hughes and the like, to such an extent that Deschamps - who was actually interviewed for the role - hardly got a mention. I'm not particularly surprised Broughton/Purslow made the appointment as neither of them really seems to know a great deal about football, but both are very well versed in PR and customer service, which is probably in part what led to us signing Joe Cole and Raul M., who had a very good world cup.

 

Needless to say, there are a few problems in all of this. Hopefully we'll see a resolution through a combination of player-management and new ownership. If things stay as they are, I think we'll be seeing the backs of players like Lucas, Babel, Torres, Agger, Jovanovic and maybe Pepe in the not-too-distant future. People might look at a couple in that list and think 'we won't miss them', but I think when there are signs that so many people in a set-up are unhappy, you need to address the problems whoever they are.

[Strontium]

I broadly agree with you Nathan, but dont expect much love for your ideas on this forum.

 

 

Ditto.

 

Don't forget Carragher's comments about his brothers not being able to get jobs because of dem foreigners terking them all.

[TommyW]

this thread is confusing

 

Roy wasnt given the job because of any daft little englander mentality, he got it because he was relatively cheap and was seen as someone who would steady the ship and not ruffle any feathers

 

I very much doubt his replacement (whenever that is) will be english as hopefully we'll be aiming a little higher

[Kobayashi Maru]

Think its a valid and interesting argument put by Nathan. Shame some have to resort to wade in with small time petty abuse rather than engaging in the discussion or challenging the opinion.

 

Any evidence of this is pretty circumspect and guess work at this stage, but would not suprise me at all. Something we have seen too often in the clubs recent history. Something Roy Evans tenure suffered from I think and Houllier did well to bring under control very quickly.

 

I'd definitely prefer more local lads and home grown players from the youth set up coming through. Its a matter of immense pride for the club and fans, but whilst generalising slightly, so many of our English contingent have let the club down and failed to show the dignity and loyalty that many of our foreign, espcially European recruits have....many of whom seem to be more grounded and humble imo.

[Paco]

This is all about Gerrard not hugging Torres when he set him up for the equaliser against Sunderland.

[Guest the boy]

Just a continuance of the Plots Against Rafa angle that now seems to be the latest little shitfest. Throw enough of it and people will insist the two local stars got rid of him.

 

Great entry in the diary of the last issue about Rafa's 'we want to sign British players, that was always the idea' claim when he brought in Shelvey.

 

"Rafa has bought 9 British players. He's since sold 8 of them, and in total has sold 27 since 2004".

 

Every thread started has been a variation on how dreadful Broughton and Purslow have been.

 

Who did they 'get rid of' again?

 

Transparent? It's virtually invisible.

 

 

50 years going & still strong.

[Guest PurpleNose]

British players are fucking shit.

[GJM]

All managers tend to sign player from parts of the world that they are most familiar with because that's the players they tend to know most about. Hodgson got Poulsen and Konchesky in because he knows them and he thought they could do a job for the team - to suggest it's because he has some vendetta against 'latin' players is clearly nonsense, particularly as he also signed Mereiles and then re-signed Aurelio.

 

Also, signing players from countries that have a tendency to play football that is nicer on the eye and with a higher technical standard and therefore assume that those players will also play that way is a bit simplistic, to put it mildly.

 

Josemi? Nunez? Pellegrino? Paletta? All signed by Benitez in his first few months in charge (maybe not Paletta) all of fairly limited technical ability (and that's being very kind!).

 

Concentrate on the players and the job they do for the team, not where their passport was issued.

[RobbieOR]

British players are fucking shit.

 

Amen.

[Lycan]

this thread is confusing

 

Roy wasnt given the job because of any daft little englander mentality, he got it because he was relatively cheap and was seen as someone who would steady the ship and not ruffle any feathers

 

I very much doubt his replacement (whenever that is) will be english as hopefully we'll be aiming a little higher

 

His replacement will be Martin O'Neill

[Guest PurpleNose]

His replacement will be Martin O'Neill

 

No it won't.

[t1971]

this thread is confusing

 

Roy wasnt given the job because of any daft little englander mentality, he got it because he was relatively cheap and was seen as someone who would steady the ship and not ruffle any feathers

 

Pelligrini was cheaper. But after being interviewed was told that we wanted an English manager. baffles me why we would want an English manager as theres very few good ones about.

[INTORRESTING]

His replacement will be Martin O'Neill

 

i would cry, british managers and british players are mostly shit!

 

Play the first 11 until March and then capitulate - great.

 

If we are not going to have endless funds we need a cl manager with maybe more of a grasp than Rafa about how to win in the prem. I would go for Hiddink if at all possible.

[Menc]

I don’t know about the little englander bit, but I do think we’re on our way to having a real problem with player power. It’s never good for players to be bigger than the manager, and I think both Carragher and Gerrard have become so. I worry that we’ll get ourselves into the kind of situation Newcastle did with Shearer - where not picking him was an outrage - particularly as Carragher’s career winds down. When the difficult decision needs to be made with Carragher, it’s unlikely that we’re going to have a manager strong enough to make it. Contrast that with how Ferguson was able to deal with Keane when the time was right.

[hamstrung]

Pelligrini was cheaper. But after being interviewed was told that we wanted an English manager. baffles me why we would want an English manager as theres very few good ones about.

 

Did we not realise that Chilean Manuel Pellegrini wasn't English prior to the interview? Or was it just when he started talking?

[WaltonRed]

Danny Murphy is a beaut of the highest order.

 

He realises he's too shit to be involved in the game after he quits so he's started being all loud and contraversial so he gets a media job.

 

He was shit for us and should keep it firmly shut.

[t1971]

Did we not realise that Chilean Manuel Pellegrini wasn't English prior to the interview? Or was it just when he started talking?

 

The way we are run at the minute? Probably not.