Time to drop Gerrard?

[shaunstrudwick]

maybe if he wasn't surrounded by such fucking shit players (Torres and Masch excluded) he'd be playing better....

 

the best way to get the most out of Gerrard has always been to get him playing with players on his level - Alonso was such a player for example

 

Lucas and Kuyt are not

 

to be fair on Sunday - he and Torres were being complete isolated from the rest of the midfield - now not saying that Aquilani is the answer but he would've been an answer

 

gutless selection from Rafa on Sunday - but not at all surprised by it

[lebron]

Drop him? Perhaps.

Strip him of the captaincy after this season? Without a doubt.

 

That "performance" yesterday was the second worst I've seen from a Liverpool player the last two seasons, in between Dossena's shockers against Hull and Spurs. Add to that the shameless sulky attitude and you've got a big problem in my eyes. I really hope Rafa has the balls to show who's the boss, but I doubt it. Regardless who's in the hot seat next year, I hope they draw the same conclusion that Eriksson and Capello rightfully have done, Gerrard is unfit as captain. Great player, no doubt, good captain, not a chance.

 

PS! Had that been any other player than Gerrard (and possibly Torres), people would demand Rafa sell him in the next window. I strongly disagree that he should get some sort of free passage for once being a great player. Granted, he's still better than a lot of our players when he's not in top form, but there's simply no excuse for him to continue being captain after a display like that.

[Torvald Utne]

maybe if he wasn't surrounded by such fucking shit players (Torres and Masch excluded) he'd be playing better....

 

the best way to get the most out of Gerrard has always been to get him playing with players on his level - Alonso was such a player for example

 

Lucas and Kuyt are not

 

to be fair on Sunday - he and Torres were being complete isolated from the rest of the midfield - now not saying that Aquilani is the answer but he would've been an answer

 

gutless selection from Rafa on Sunday - but not at all surprised by it

 

You talk so much shit it's unreal.

 

Gerrard was isolated from the midfield? Torres was isolated as his supporting striker was wandering around not giving a fuck.

 

And why do Carra, Reina, Masch, Torres all seem to care and put in the effort when they are surrounded by supposedly shit players?

 

He's just being a lazy sulk.

[lebron]

maybe if he wasn't surrounded by such fucking shit players (Torres and Masch excluded) he'd be playing better....

 

the best way to get the most out of Gerrard has always been to get him playing with players on his level - Alonso was such a player for example

 

Lucas and Kuyt are not

 

to be fair on Sunday - he and Torres were being complete isolated from the rest of the midfield - now not saying that Aquilani is the answer but he would've been an answer

 

gutless selection from Rafa on Sunday - but not at all surprised by it

 

That's just bullshit. Was it Lucas' and Kuyts' fault that everytime Gerrard got the ball, he gave it away, missing everything from 5-yard passes to simply trapping the ball under no/low pressure? It was like watching a sulky version of a Luis Garcia off form. What did Kuyt do with the ball the one time Gerrard actually managed to give him a decent (although slightly overhit) pass then?

[lebron]

You talk so much shit it's unreal.

 

Gerrard was isolated from the midfield? Torres was isolated as his supporting striker was wandering around not giving a fuck.

 

And why do Carra, Reina, Masch, Torres all seem to care and put in the effort when they are surrounded by supposedly shit players?

 

He's just being a lazy sulk.

 

Is right

[shaunstrudwick]

Drop him? Perhaps.

Strip him of the captaincy after this season? Without a doubt.

 

That "performance" yesterday was the second worst I've seen from a Liverpool player the last two seasons, in between Dossena's shockers against Hull and Spurs. Add to that the shameless sulky attitude and you've got a big problem in my eyes. I really hope Rafa has the balls to show who's the boss, but I doubt it. Regardless who's in the hot seat next year, I hope they draw the same conclusion that Eriksson and Capello rightfully have done, Gerrard is unfit as captain. Great player, no doubt, good captain, not a chance.

 

PS! Had that been any other player than Gerrard (and possibly Torres), people would demand Rafa sell him in the next window. I strongly disagree that he should get some sort of free passage for once being a great player. Granted, he's still better than a lot of our players when he's not in top form, but there's simply no excuse for him to continue being captain after a display like that.

 

when Rafa goes Gerrard will be rejuvenated as a player and a captain

[njackets]

I don't know how anybody can defend his performances and attitude over the last few weeks, if Lucas had put in the same displays the boards would go into melt down! He's being paid a week what people don't earn in a year to sulk around the pitch and put no effort into playing for a team he supports!

[Mathewbet1]

I don't think hes not trying. He's having pain killing injections before every game, he still has a groin problem and playing through the pain barrier and putting his world cup fitness at risk. you can see in his movements that he cant run properly. Yes he's playing poorly, but to suggest hes not trying is ridiculous.

[Redexile]

No...sell gerrard, play aquilani, buy striker.

 

FFS

[Redexile]

Drop him? Perhaps.

Strip him of the captaincy after this season? Without a doubt.

 

That "performance" yesterday was the second worst I've seen from a Liverpool player the last two seasons, in between Dossena's shockers against Hull and Spurs. Add to that the shameless sulky attitude and you've got a big problem in my eyes. I really hope Rafa has the balls to show who's the boss, but I doubt it. Regardless who's in the hot seat next year, I hope they draw the same conclusion that Eriksson and Capello rightfully have done, Gerrard is unfit as captain. Great player, no doubt, good captain, not a chance.

PS! Had that been any other player than Gerrard (and possibly Torres), people would demand Rafa sell him in the next window. I strongly disagree that he should get some sort of free passage for once being a great player. Granted, he's still better than a lot of our players when he's not in top form, but there's simply no excuse for him to continue being captain after a display like that.

Jesus, there's a load of shite in there. So lets see - yesterday he was involved in our goal and also laid on two chances for Torres which if taken and at least one should have been would have changed the result. As for the worst display outside of Dossena, don't make me laugh or are you conveniently ovelooking displays by Babbel and Voronin for starters?

I'll ask a question I asked another poster earlier how many opposition coaches do you think would be happier facing us without Gerrard in the side?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

This is an interesting premise. Gerrard, who hasnt got the one medal he craves (so you say and I dont doubt that) finds time is running out on actually being able to win that last medal.

 

Yet, by your premise, he's going to sulk around, play or act like a tit thereby reducing his chances even further in the few years he possibly has left to win this coverted medal.

 

That's real clever but I spot a flaw in your assumption.

 

Go no then, whats the flaw in my assumption?

[razor]

Fuckin hell ^^^^

 

 

Park, Nani and Fletcher walk into our side. Neville (rat faced bastardo) delivers one of the best right sided crosses in EPL history. At least have some balance in the argument. He's pissed off, so am I, the side sucks. It's not an excuse anymore - IT IS FACT.

 

Neville hasn't delivered a decent cross for about two years. He used to be effective, but not any more.

 

Park, Nani and Fletcher wouldn't walk into our side. At the expense of whom? I am not saying they aren't effective players, as clearly they are. What I AM saying is they are good players, but certainly no better than the players in our team.

 

There is clear balance in the argument. I think you are missing the point I was making. It isn't necessarily about the individual qualities of their and our players.

 

What I am saying is that the leadership qualities of players like Rooney get those around him playing well. He both feeds and feeds off the confidence of only "good" players like Park, Nani, Fletcher and Carrick

 

We have a "leader" who is anything but. There is no confidence in our side, and if anything his body language, moping, lack of verbal encouragement and general disinterest actually causes more harm than good.

 

His whole demeanour smacks of "You lot aren't up to scratch." Rooney doesn't recognise the limitations of those only "good" players, and as a result, their team achieve. Ours, under the leadership of cobby moper Gerrard, don't.

 

They have good payers, we have good players: there isn't a massive difference (certainly those players wouldn't "walk" into our team as you say). What the difference is, and the point of the thread which I was addressing, is the merit of Gerrard as a leader. It isn't up to much.

 

Now THAT's a fact.

[havarantagain]

its easy to be a captain in a winning side, a lot harder and a bigger test of those skills when your not. Gerrard has never been a true leader of the side more a figure head.

If we were not so far of the pace i'd be benching Gerrard to give him a rest mentally from the strain of staying fit for the world cup, poor thing.

[Best Believe It]

He's always been moody but he's previously dragged himself out of it after a few weeks. Over the years I've lost track of the countless reasons given for his inconsistent periods (court cases, gangsters, family problems, matrimonial problems , growing pains, head turned by Chelsea- I feel like I've lived them all with him) and just come to accept that he's a moody fucker who's well worth putting up with because his highs eclipse his lows.

 

This year has been different because his trough had got deeper and deeper. Maybe there's no particular reason for it. My guess is that after the near-miss of last season he thought (like so many of us) that he was closer than ever to achieving his dream, that we'd be bringing in a class attacker and central defender to compliment Johnson and Aquilani and that he was gutted when we didn't. Maybe he'll snap out of it on Sunday. Who knows?

 

I reckon this is pretty much spot on - I think Gerrard suffers from moods more than most, and an air of despondancy has settled on the squad - and maybe the club as a whole - since the summer, when we should have been able to kick on but didn't. I think it's had a massive effect on the mood of the squad - especially Gerrard - and not all have recovered.

[piscinin]

Jesus, there's a load of shite in there. So lets see - yesterday he was involved in our goal and also laid on two chances for Torres which if taken and at least one should have been would have changed the result. As for the worst display outside of Dossena, don't make me laugh or are you conveniently ovelooking displays by Babbel and Voronin for starters?

I'll ask a question I asked another poster earlier how many opposition coaches do you think would be happier facing us without Gerrard in the side?

 

This season? A lot less than last season.

 

If you can't see he's under-performed massively this season then football is not for you. A couple of crosses doesn't alter that.

[KevieG]

It would be insane to drop Gerrard after all he's done for the club. Even on his worst day he could do a better job on the right than someone like Kuyt.

 

Maybe the strain of busting his balls trying to carry so many journeymen for so long is finally catching up with him, the mental strength to do that and put up with an an anti-football manager who doesn't rate you despite getting him out of the shit for years and years must take some toll. The same will happen Torres in the end if he sticks around. You can see it building in him already and he's only here a few years.

[Redexile]

This season? A lot less than last season.

 

If you can't see he's under-performed massively this season then football is not for you. A couple of crosses doesn't alter that.

 

Of course he's under performed this season as have 9 other players- Reina being the only one to consistently play up to standard- but an under performing Gerrard is still better than most of the rest of our team.So in dropping him who do you advocate to replace him? Aquilani who the manager wouldn't play against such high fliers as Wolves and Blackburn because he wasn't physically up to it, El Zhar, Riera ?

BTW while were at it let's take a look at Torres who's also out there bitching and moaning and dropping his head at times (5 needless yellow cards in the last 7 games) and let's perhaps understand the sense of frustration that is possibly causing this.

If you can't see that we don't have the squad depth to drop an under performing Steven Gerrard then football's not for you.

[KevieG]

Of course he's under performed this season as have 9 other players- Reina being the only one to consistently play up to standard- but an under performing Gerrard is still better than most of the rest of our team.So in dropping him who do you advocate to replace him? Aquilani who the manager wouldn't play against such high fliers as Wolves and Blackburn because he wasn't physically up to it, El Zhar, Riera ?

BTW while were at it let's take a look at Torres who's also out there bitching and moaning and dropping his head at times (5 needless yellow cards in the last 7 games) and let's perhaps understand the sense of frustration that is possibly causing this.

If you can't see that we don't have the squad depth to drop an under performing Steven Gerrard then football's not for you.

 

Thats the crucial bit for me.

[piscinin]

Of course he's under performed this season as have 9 other players- Reina being the only one to consistently play up to standard- but an under performing Gerrard is still better than most of the rest of our team.So in dropping him who do you advocate to replace him? Aquilani who the manager wouldn't play against such high fliers as Wolves and Blackburn because he wasn't physically up to it, El Zhar, Riera ?

BTW while were at it let's take a look at Torres who's also out there bitching and moaning and dropping his head at times (5 needless yellow cards in the last 7 games) and let's perhaps understand the sense of frustration that is possibly causing this.

If you can't see that we don't have the squad depth to drop an under performing Steven Gerrard then football's not for you.

 

Well I guess I'm lucky I didn't say drop him but move him to somewhere where he can break up less attacks.

 

If you can't read peoples posts and understand that when they say, move him to the right wing is different from drop him, then maybe forums are not the place for you. ha ha.

 

And yes kicking off on Torres is definitely a sound strategy to defend Gerrard. Jesus. If you hadn't noticed, he's doing his job. Scoring goals, STILL, even though his partner has been utter crud. SACK TORRES.

[Whelan]

Nobody is bothered about him underperforming, it is the lack of effort that is worrying.

There is a huge difference between having a Steven Gerrard who is out of form, however long that occurs and having a Steven Gerrard who is sulking.

[piscinin]

Thats the crucial bit for me.

 

So the question is if he lets his frustration undermine his performances to the extent that he has this season, why will next season be any different? It'll be largely the same players, if a new manager comes in it won't be Mourinho, they'll be no budget, it'll be a new start, new tactics, a new 5 year plan. Why will he return to form next year when we'll essentially be taking a step backwards in the hope of taking two forward in the future?

[piscinin]

Nobody is bothered about him underperforming, it is the lack of effort that is worrying.

There is a huge difference between having a Steven Gerrard who is out of form, however long that occurs and having a Steven Gerrard who is sulking.

 

We've built the whole team around him he needs to perform.

[Redexile]

Well I guess I'm lucky I didn't say drop him but move him to somewhere where he can break up less attacks.

 

If you can't read peoples posts and understand that when they say, move him to the right wing is different from drop him, then maybe forums are not the place for you. ha ha.

 

And yes kicking off on Torres is definitely a sound strategy to defend Gerrard. Jesus. If you hadn't noticed, he's doing his job. Scoring goals, STILL, even though his partner has been utter crud. SACK TORRES.

 

My response was a direct response to your post I'm not going to trawl through the rest to see what you did or did not suggest previously.

IYes Torres is doing his job but his attitude is clearly not right and I'm trying to point you in the direction of maybe looking for the cause of the frustration of our players.I'm not advocating dropping him ( sack/drop? I assume English is not your first language) as ,for the same reasons as Gerrard, even if Torres was abysmal we have nobody to replace him with.

Now tell me why it's acceptable for Torres to score 1 and miss 2 yet 3 assists by Gerrard make him utter crud??

[Sandman]

My response was a direct response to your post I'm not going to trawl through the rest to see what you did or did not suggest previously.

IYes Torres is doing his job but his attitude is clearly not right and I'm trying to point you in the direction of maybe looking for the cause of the frustration of our players.I'm not advocating dropping him ( sack/drop? I assume English is not your first language) as ,for the same reasons as Gerrard, even if Torres was abysmal we have nobody to replace him with.

Now tell me why it's acceptable for Torres to score 1 and miss 2 yet 3 assists by Gerrard make him utter crud??

 

 

I believe the point being made is that he's been very poor this season. It's not just one game. Torres for all his on field shenanigans has still scored something like 15 goals in 17 games.

 

Plus he seems to be actually making an effort. Gerrard seems to be phoning it in. I don't know whether it's the personal problems mentioned earlier in the thread, or him holding back for SA or whatever it may be, the fact is that when he's not in form it hurts us. He doesn't defend anymore either which bugs the hell out of me. It appears that he thinks he's above all of this, that he deserves better, and I have a real problem with that.

 

My 2cents, or the English equivalent ;)

[Redexile]

I believe the point being made is that he's been very poor this season. It's not just one game. Torres for all his on field shenanigans has still scored something like 15 goals in 17 games.

 

Plus he seems to be actually making an effort. Gerrard seems to be phoning it in. I don't know whether it's the personal problems mentioned earlier in the thread, or him holding back for SA or whatever it may be, the fact is that when he's not in form it hurts us. He doesn't defend anymore either which bugs the hell out of me. It appears that he thinks he's above all of this, that he deserves better, and I have a real problem with that.

 

My 2cents, or the English equivalent ;)

 

You make some good points most of which I agree with. I do believe that Gerrard doesn't have the strength of spirit to not let what is happening off field effect him on field. Remember his dabble with Chelsea came about because he didn't feel wanted. Let's also not forget he's been at the club man and boy and been going out each season on the promise that this will be the one. Maybe he thought we would go out with the shackles off this season only to find Rafa reverting to type?

We all know Rafa is not the arm around the shoulder type or the Shankly war speech type and maybe this has compounded things. The point I'm making is that I believe even a half arsed Gerrard offers us more options than we have available in the squad currently. If we had a better squad maybe a game on the bench would help.