Benitez 'guarantees' top four finish

[goatboy59]

Did someone just say 20m doesn't buy you much?

 

We are through the looking glass now, folks.

[Stu Monty]

Lets not turn this into Alonso again.

 

Like I said in my first post, there is hardly any change in the squad, yet you would think they have never played together.

 

I honestly think that's a fair point.

 

I do too.

 

The loss of Alonso shouldn't equate to the poor form so far. He needs to get what he's got playing a lot better, I'm not denying that.

[Iantn]

78 appearances in 5 years for roma is a hell of a gamble for 20 million

 

We haven't paid 20million in the summer on him though did we?

 

We paid an intial 5million euro, I think.

[Stu Monty]

Did someone just say 20m doesn't buy you much?

 

We are through the looking glass now, folks.

 

You can quote my post and disagree with some counter-argument if you want. It'll probably make me a lot less motivated to post something snide in return.

[robslappa]

Lets not turn this into Alonso again.

 

Like I said in my first post, there is hardly any change in the squad, yet you would think they have never played together.

 

I honestly think that's a fair point.

 

In the early part of last season we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat on more than one occassion. This season, it's the opposite.

 

In my opinion the quality of the football isn't much different. I thought we were shite for the first two thirds of last season and we're lucky to be where we were when we did start playing well. But when we did hit some form, we were unplayable and were the best side in the country.

 

I do think we're capable of going on a run, but he has to start by taking the shackles off and stop playing two defensive midfielders, particularly at home.

[robslappa]

We haven't paid 20million in the summer on him though did we?

 

We paid an intial 5million euro, I think.

 

But that's how nearly every transfer fee is paid. We still have to pay £20m and it has to be accounted for.

[zigackly]

In my opinion the quality of the football isn't much different. I thought we were shite for the first two thirds of last season and we're lucky to be where we were when we did start playing well. But when we did hit some form, we were unplayable and were the best side in the country.

 

There is some truth in that, but we were never this shite and the players at least looked like they believed they could play football. We've gone a long way backwards this round, even from our worst form last season.

[JohnnyH]

Lets not turn this into Alonso again.

 

Like I said in my first post, there is hardly any change in the squad, yet you would think they have never played together.

 

I honestly think that's a fair point.

 

That to me is the crux of things. Yes, losing someone of Alonsos class will always cause you to suffer a bit, but not to the level we are. I think a number of things are affecting us.

 

- Player badly out of form at the back that we can usually hugely rely on.

 

- Injuries.

 

- Managerial mistakes with sticking with certain players badly out of form.

 

- The loss of Torres and Gerrard for long periods with Gerrard out of form.

 

- Mascherano well out of form.

 

- Massive hangover from getting so close last year. I think that if that 93rd minute goal for the Mancs against Villa doesn't go in, we win the title. It did though, and I think it knocked shite out of a load of our players and they still haven't properly recovered.

 

- The thought that we'd finished 2nd, with 86 points, so lets get in the last of the missing links to finihs the job, like another forward and Silva, but instead, we have to balance the books. Chelsea finished 2nd and so they spent £74m on talent. We finish second and make a profit for the owners. I think this also significantly contributed to the hangover coming into this season that I mention in the point above.

[Iantn]

But that's how nearly every transfer fee is paid. We still have to pay £20m and it has to be accounted for.

 

Fair point on the accounted for bit but not so sure nearly every transfer is paid that way. Could be wrong though.

[Stu Monty]

The thing is Stu, Rafa looks gone as well. There was a picture of him in the Mirror shaking hands with Wenger, He looked absolutly gobsmacked.

 

The politics etc having the full run of the club etc etc, I'm wondering If its all too much, has he lost focused? I doubt it, he works hard and spends every hour god sends there, but could he be taking on too much?

 

Are his staff helping?

 

I know what you mean about having that slightly haunted quality about him. I don't think he's gone but I'll want to see proof of that in the rest of the season.

 

I'd happily sacrifice Rafa if it meant new owners with real progressive plans for the club but with these owners, and this reality that we have, I don't see anyone else out there that will do a better job for LFC than Rafa.

 

Rafa or not, without a stadium that can fund the challenge of the next few years we are in very severe danger of slipping to fifth, or sixth if Villa or Spurs are backed well consistently. There'll be a sign outside Anfiled: "Wanted, miracle worker".

[Carra_is_legend]

Massive hangover from getting so close last year. I think that if that 93rd minute goal for the Mancs against Villa doesn't go in, we win the title. It did though, and I think it knocked shite out of a load of our players and they still haven't properly recovered.

 

That 93rd minute goal didn't knock shite out of the players last season but did full 6 months later?

 

Very very strange argument that.

[robslappa]

Fair point on the accounted for bit but not so sure nearly every transfer is paid that way. Could be wrong though.

 

Most are paid in installments. That's why Pompey still owed us money for Crouch when we signed Johnson. We still say we got £10m for him (or what is £11m) but the reality is they never actually gave us all of it.

[BolshieBastard]

Lets not turn this into Alonso again.

 

Like I said in my first post, there is hardly any change in the squad, yet you would think they have never played together.

 

I honestly think that's a fair point.

 

Its not only fair its a correct point.

 

Our squad has only changed in that Johnson has come in for Arbeloa, Hyppia was allowed to leave although he wasnt being played, Kryiakos (sp) came in as a replacement and, Aquilani has come in for Alonso.

 

Effectively our first team has had two players changed. Johnson has scored a couple of goals so I'd say on the whole, we've strengthened in this area. Aquilani has been an enforced absence a full month and a bit after he was declared fit, due to Benitez's decision.

 

IMO, there's absolutely no reason why this squad shouldnt be in 4th or even 3rd position based on how we finished last season.

[goatboy59]

Okay, snidiness aside, how many quality players do you think we are short of for a title winning side? Three? Four?

 

So if 20m "doesn't buy you much" what are we talking about for quality? 30m?

 

So you want Rafa to be just handed 100m plus and then we might just win the league again?

 

It was an awful, stupid thing to say and you know it, designed solely to absolve Rafa of any blame for an incredible decision to buy Aquilani.

[JohnnyH]

That 93rd minute goal didn't knock shite out of the players last season but did full 6 months later?

 

Very very strange argument that.

 

They kept fighting, but we then started conceeding goals, Arsenal at home been a prime example, and Man Utd, who were playing awful, went from strength to strength.

 

I don't think it's a strange comment at all.

 

I think getting that close and failing has caused a bit of a hangover in some players, and this has been magnified with the other issues.

[Carra_is_legend]

They kept fighting, but we then started conceeding goals, Arsenal at home been a prime example, and Man Utd, who were playing awful, went from strength to strength.

 

I don't think it's a strange comment at all.

 

I think getting that close and failing has caused a bit of a hangover in some players, and this has been magnified with the other issues.

 

Well, I don't agree with that at all.

 

If anything, last season should have given a BOOST to the manager and the players.

[AmerScouse]

In the early part of last season we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat on more than one occassion. This season, it's the opposite.

 

In my opinion the quality of the football isn't much different. I thought we were shite for the first two thirds of last season and we're lucky to be where we were when we did start playing well. But when we did hit some form, we were unplayable and were the best side in the country.

 

I do think we're capable of going on a run, but he has to start by taking the shackles off and stop playing two defensive midfielders, particularly at home.

 

think the first part is a very good observation. i just think of the 3-2 comeback win against city or the goal torres scores against portsmouth. luck is not on our side this season.

 

however part 2, i think we need to do the opposite. i think we need to find our defensive spine again. i'd actually play glen johnson in midfield on one side and yossi on the other and try and win games 1-nil for the next few months. i think our confidence is everything to do with our defense being leaky, not that the goals aren't coming.

 

i think if the shackles come off that we'll go on a run of draws until the players heads get right. i don't think its all down to luck, but bad form, poor choices, back luck, uncharacteristic mistakes, loss of confidence, the belief this year that if it can go wrong it will vs last years, i don't care how shit we are playing we always find a way to win.

 

i think that is what's wearing on rafa, not the politics etc. he probably feels as if there isn't much more that can go wrong and it always seems too and everyone knows we aren't really this poor a team

[Section_31]

Okay, snidiness aside, how many quality players do you think we are short of for a title winning side? Three? Four?

 

So if 20m "doesn't buy you much" what are we talking about for quality? 30m?

 

So you want Rafa to be just handed 100m plus and then we might just win the league again?

 

It was an awful, stupid thing to say and you know it, desinged solely to absolve Rafa of any blame for an incredible decision to buy Aquilani.

 

It's not as simple as money, there are plenty of £5m players around who could become great, you just need to know where to look. How often do Spanish and Italian clubs pay £20-30m for players these days? With the exception of the freakshow that is Real Madrid or a late 90s Lazio. There's shitloads of players from South America to the Balkans who went to clubs like Juve and Roma and made it big - some of the greatest names in world football in fact.

 

Just because you haven't got as much money as Chelsea or City (just like nobody else has) doesn't give you carte blanche to go out and spunk it all on people who can't even pass a football.

[JohnnyH]

Well, I don't agree with that at all.

 

If anything, last season should have given a BOOST to the manager and the players.

 

It would have been, had we been able to add to the team in our weak areas, but with the team having to break even on summer sales and purchases, we ended up pretty much weakened, and the players got ever more down. Just speak to people around the hotel during pre-season and they have used words like "morgue".

[WaltonRed]

If we had owners with deep enough pockets a new ground wouldnt be needed.

[George Costanza]

Rafa needs to grow some bollocks & say I'll get 4th or better or I'll walk.

[.net]

Basically everyone has to wise up and accept the situation and stick together because other than getting in a lesser manager what more can we do?

 

Theres a cancer at the club and its finally seeped down deep into the squad. The signs were there last year and the year before with all the falling out business between the owners and Rafa but the ship was steadied and along with a fairly fit squad we pulled through and probably punched above our weight.

 

When the final cash was pulled this summer you could see this crises a mile off and that was only with the likes of Torres and Gerrard being missing nevermind most of the squad over different periods.

 

basically we are fucked. Until we get in more stable owners this is whats to be expected for the forseable future.

 

Bargain basement buys at best, lack of cash, i mean who the hell has heard of using a transfer budget to renegotiate deals for current players? never in my lifetime have i heard that.

 

And what about Rafa.

 

yeah the guy makes me tear my hair out at times, but hes a bloody good manager and more of a man than myself, because i'd have walked by now having put up with all this crap week in week out. If its not the media constantly sniping hoping to break him, its our own fans, if its not them its sodding beach balls or fuckin Jerome scoring a goal he'll never score agin in his lifetime.

 

make no mistake while he isnt entirely blameless in some regards, theres been a hell of a lot out of his hands thats buggered us over good and proper this season so far.

 

the very least he deserves is this season, the very least. hes up against it with out of form, or injured players, a thin squad, internal warfare, no kitty and 90% of fleet street just crowing for their next big scalp.

 

All we can do is support. yeah its frustrating and it ruins my day/week/month but until the owners are ousted we cant move on. I dont trust them to bring in a new man, i dont trust them to give the new man funds. I dont trust the new man with some of our star names because ill tell you now the only way we will get a top quality manager is by pure name alone because we have sod all else to offer at the moment, the club is a poisoned chalice.

 

So lets quit the whinin, yeah let some frustrations out but keep it real.

[Stu Monty]

Okay, snidiness aside, how many quality players do you think we are short of for a title winning side? Three? Four?

 

So if 20m "doesn't buy you much" what are we talking about for quality? 30m?

 

So you want Rafa to be just handed 100m plus and then we might just win the league again?

 

It was an awful, stupid thing to say and you know it, designed solely to absolve Rafa of any blame for an incredible decision to buy Aquilani.

 

Obviously you can get quality for £2m. I'm not an idiot and I presumed that most people know that too. I think we are plenty of players away from a title winning side and that what Rafa managed to do last season was a real achievement. Squads win titles, not first elevens, and squads that are packed with benches full of £20m signings and two expensive, well paid players for each position have a much better chance over a long season.

 

The Aquilani purchase isn't incredible, it's a gamble. You can agree or disagree with that gamble but he saw the chance to get a player he thought will be the business and went for it. Nobody is going to convince me that a load of that money is paid upon him actually playing for us and winning things either.

 

You're framing the conversation as one about a title challenge and, for me, that's just pointless. You can put your fingers in your ears and keep repeating "we need number 19, we need number 19, we need number 19" but it isn't going to make the reality of the situation just go away. Last season was over-performance to push one of Chelsea and United out of the way, and with City coming up on the rails a title is going to take something truly spectacular.

[Stu Monty]

If we had owners with deep enough pockets a new ground wouldnt be needed.

 

If it's about the owner with the most money then it's pointless. What's a league win if some oil tycoon just bought it for you? It has to be self-sustaining.

[WaltonRed]

If it's about the owner with the most money then it's pointless. What's a league win if some oil tycoon just bought it for you? It has to be self-sustaining.

 

We are fucked then.