Where would Darren Fletcher be today...

[Jens]

...if Alex Ferguson hadn´t stood by him in his darkest times? Certainly not at Manchester United. I´m sure he wouldn´t be a key player for a club that are pushing Chelsea in the league and already through to the knockout stages of the Champions League.

 

Maybe Rafa standing by Lucas isn´t such a bad idea after all.

[Rex Banner]

Playing for Everton.

[OnizukaEikichi]

well if the team is winning trophies doing well etc, Lucas wouldnt be under so much of pressure.

[GJM]

Likely true, but, as argument winners go, I think the approach here (i.e. choose a player who was poor, but then became quite good) to prove your point lacks a certain rigor.

 

What about all those players (and there must surely be many) who started poor and then stayed poor, or perhaps rose to the giddy heights of mediocrity?

 

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case with our controversial Brazilian, but you get the point.

[millomred]

I still think that Lucas will turn out to be a very good midfielder.This season he has been one of our more consistant players.He has started to come to terms with the pace of the prem, he has cut out a lot of his bad tackling, his passing has improved but he still lacks goals, but i`m sure that they will come.

Stay with him until the end of the season then let`s make a decision then.

[Redshadow]

Maybe Rafa' teaching Lucas to play defensive midfield PROPERLY might bloody help us!! His (lack of) marking on Ireland on Saturday was pathetic - And he really needs to sharpen up his forward play to - I seem to remember him wasting 3 or 4 good chances at Bolton in August and the free header he muffed that COULD have pilfered us an undeserved 3 points was awful. Must do better is the verdict - MUCH bloody better!!!!

[Jens]

Likely true, but, as argument winners go, I think the approach here (i.e. choose a player who was poor, but then became quite good) to prove your point lacks a certain rigor.

 

What about all those players (and there must surely be many) who started poor and then stayed poor, or perhaps rose to the giddy heights of mediocrity?

 

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case with our controversial Brazilian, but you get the point.

 

 

I think that when a proven top manager like Rafa believes in a player as much as he does in Lucas, the player is more likely to become a success than not.

 

When Fletcher was 22 he was nowhere near the player Lucas is today.

[hamstrung]

I like quizes

[TommyW]

He's still a clogger

 

don't believe the hype

[Josef Svejk]

Indeed. Fletcher is mediocre.

[Mathewbet1]

No Fletcher is world class. It happened overnight apparently.

 

Still a yarddog imo.

[Antynwa]

Different players do different jobs for different teams.

 

Fletcher probably couldn't play at any other level, and in any other way for any team other than Man Utd.

[sh#t waffle]

Different players do different jobs for different teams.

 

Fletcher probably couldn't play at any other level, and in any other way for any team other than Man Utd.

 

Nope, you've lost me.

I don't think the fact that certain players have improved immeasurably means that all players improve immeasurably. There's

no doubt in my mind that certain people underrate Lucas. He's done pretty well at times, and is far from our biggest problem. However, there's similarly little doubt in my mind that he won't ever graduate beyond being an

able back up for us.

[dirty_sanchez]

Different players do different jobs for different teams.

 

Fletcher probably couldn't play at any other level, and in any other way for any team other than Man Utd.

 

Although he'll end up at the Bitters getting sent off in the derby match. That's pretty much nailed on.

[Hermes]

...if Alex Ferguson hadn´t stood by him in his darkest times?

 

If he'd sold him he certainly wouldn't be the most overrated player in the Premiership , because he would no longer be playing for Man Utd. The only reason Rafa has stood by Lucas is because he has had no other option since Alonso left. When he has another option Lucas will fade from the scene.

[The 5th Benitel]

[goatboy59]

Robson.

 

 

Ince.

 

 

Keane.

 

 

Fletcher......

 

 

New quiz; spot the odd one out.

[Tom R]

Lucas is a fairly decent player. Slightly better than average.

 

The problem we have is that we can't afford to be bedding in average players in key positions when the rest of the team, especially he midfield, is weak compared to relative years.

 

in a way, Alonso leaving could have a bad impact Lucas's career here. Whilst Alonso was here Lucas coule be dropped in to the team occasionally in the non-key games and allowed to develop.

Now he's been dropped right in at the deep end and he's just not ready.

 

So, in summary - It's not that many aren't prepared to give young players a chance, of course we are, we have a rich history of exactly that. What many aren't prepared to do is to stand by and watch a distinctly average player start almost every game and cost us matches.

[Tom R]

just to add to that, when Fletcher was bedding in, in say 2005 when he made 36 appearances (thanks Wiki) - he was surrounded by the likes of Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Christiano Ronaldo and Ryan Giggs. All four of which could arguably be considered amongst the finest midfielders of their generation anywhere in the whole world. Three of them at the same time.

 

Look at our midfield, and then try hiding Lucas in it without it looking rubbish...

[silverlining]

...if Alex Ferguson hadn´t stood by him in his darkest times? Certainly not at Manchester United. I´m sure he wouldn´t be a key player for a club that are pushing Chelsea in the league and already through to the knockout stages of the Champions League.

 

Maybe Rafa standing by Lucas isn´t such a bad idea after all.

 

 

Yes it is. Lucas is shit.

 

Fletcher is essentially a high-energy wrecking ball whose game is all about chasing more talented players around the pitch and hoofing them up into the air. He is a white Sissoko, except he can pass a bit better and scores the odd goal.

 

Many United fans got on his back because they were desperate for a new Keane, and Fletcher is nowhere near the player Keane was (the fact that United weren't winning titles was also a factor when he first emerged). He's improved, yes, but still isn't and never will be as good as Keane. That doesn't mean he isn't a useful player for United, but let's not get carried away.

 

What this has to do with the hapless, ineffectual Lucas is anyone's guess.

[RobbieOR]

Lucas is a fairly decent player. Slightly better than average.

 

The problem we have is that we can't afford to be bedding in average players in key positions when the rest of the team, especially he midfield, is weak compared to relative years.

 

in a way, Alonso leaving could have a bad impact Lucas's career here. Whilst Alonso was here Lucas coule be dropped in to the team occasionally in the non-key games and allowed to develop.

Now he's been dropped right in at the deep end and he's just not ready.

 

So, in summary - It's not that many aren't prepared to give young players a chance, of course we are, we have a rich history of exactly that. What many aren't prepared to do is to stand by and watch a distinctly average player start almost every game and cost us matches.

 

Spot on that.

[Little Sammy]

I hate saying this but Fletcher is, and always was, ten times the player that Lucas is. But that's not saying much, even Tom R is ten times the player he is.

 

I can't understand how people still go on defending him through thick and thin. He cannot attack, he cannot defend, he cannot head a ball (the right way of course - the own goal he scored against Villa with his head was a magnificent header) he cannot thread decent balls on a consistent basis, so what the fuck can he do?!

[BexBissel]

Lucas is a fairly decent player. Slightly better than average.

 

The problem we have is that we can't afford to be bedding in average players in key positions when the rest of the team, especially he midfield, is weak compared to relative years.

 

in a way, Alonso leaving could have a bad impact Lucas's career here. Whilst Alonso was here Lucas coule be dropped in to the team occasionally in the non-key games and allowed to develop.

Now he's been dropped right in at the deep end and he's just not ready.

 

So, in summary - It's not that many aren't prepared to give young players a chance, of course we are, we have a rich history of exactly that. What many aren't prepared to do is to stand by and watch a distinctly average player start almost every game and cost us matches.

Our defence has cost us this season, not Lucas Leiva.

[Tom R]

Our defence has cost us this season, not Lucas Leiva.

 

Hmmm.

[t1971]

Lucas is better now than Flethcher was at the same age, and thats despite Fletcher having the best midfield in the country along side him. 2 or 3 years ago i would never have thought Fletcher would have a future at united, now they go crying when hes suspended for the CL final. There is something to be said for sticking with a player.