West Ham Vs. Liverpool 19/09/09

[Spagbol]

Skrtel is worse than Carragher. At least Jamie has age as an excuse. For a supposed big tough lad he's scared of attacking the ball.

[HJohal]

I think the improved quality of forward passing of Agger and Aqualani could give it the extra depth we will need to win the title - very concerned about set pieces.

[Delmar]

Erm, we've consistently had one of the best defences around under Benitez. You can't suddenly start saying it's due to money because previously class defenders are suddenly defending like school kids in a flawed system.

 

The best system in the world cannot stop individual errors. Getting players in who do not make errors can. That costs money.

 

The question today was simple. Were the goals conceded due to the system or the individual errors. I'd say individual errors.

[Spagbol]

Honestly....

 

What's that supposed to mean?

 

Jamie is on his way out, it's clear as day. To deny it is not what this club is all about. There should be no sentiment involved, if your time is up it's up, thanks and good luck.

[Xherdan]

TNot that bothered about Chelsea - they'll blow up at some point or other, so if they can put Spurs back in their place then I don't especially have a problem with that.

 

 

 

Wouldnt be so sure about that mate. A team of players who have done it all before and a manager who has had success at every level. They are more of a threat than then Mancs in my opinion.

[Red Nick]

Our defence is not good enough to win us the league fortunately we have enough fire power to finish 4th

[drewy]

Terrible defending today, against a better side we'd have been dead and buried by half time.

 

Torres was much better and Lucas was decent so credit to them.

 

We need to step up or we'll get twatted by better teams.

[King Emlyn]

I've been as critical as anyone about Babel, he deserves a lot of credit for today. He did very well. Will he continue to show the same desire and hunger? Based on previous evidence, no, but he deserves to have some credit tonight.

 

Momo is just fishing again; he needs banning now.

*adopts Russel Crowe stance* " Are you not entertained ?"

[J-V]

Drogba will have a field day against Carra and Skrtel in a few weeks if we don't sort that shit out.

He always turns up against us anyway the fucker.

[Guest Dog Chaser]

Another 3 points on the board however the defending is poor at the moment. A real opportunity for Agger when he's fit.

[Red Phoenix]

Ahhh, I'm so glad I missed the drama of this thread and was in pub instead. Why the fuck do we have to make it so hard for ourselves though? And it's good to see that Rafa had another good reminder of why Gerrard shouldn't be taking corners.

 

Torres, you're a fucking genius.

 

To anyone that went mental in this thread : shut the fuck up!

[Delmar]

Wouldnt be so sure about that mate. A team of players who have done it all before and a manager who has had success at every level. They are more of a threat than then Mancs in my opinion.

 

I'd agree with that. They have to be the favorites for the title...

[Spagbol]

The best system in the world cannot stop individual errors. Getting players in who do not make errors can. That costs money.

 

The question today was simple. Were the goals conceded due to the system or the individual errors. I'd say individual errors.

 

So suddenly it's the players that aren't good enough, despite the defensive records during Benitez's time here? Skrtel is supposed to be a top international defender, and while Jamie's career is coming to a close he's still a vastly experienced player.

 

Are you going to bring up the money excuse after every sloppy defensive display this season?

[god knows]

Halfway through the first half, I really thought it was heading for a draw. At full time, I was making monkey faces at my 5 year old bluenose daughter, then went in for a serious full on tickling which resulted in tears(hers not mine). Result.

[StevieH]

Our defence is not good enough to win us the league fortunately we have enough fire power to finish 4th

 

Why the negativity?

 

Our performances at this point last season were also poor and we were conceeding sloppy goals and not performing to our full potential, yet we still recovered and mounted a title challenge.

 

If we keep Gerrard and Torres fit for most of the season and Benayoun and kuyt continue to chip in with goals then we will be in with a shout.

[RyanLFC]

Just got back from the pub, fucking buzzin', same scenario as last week, people are moaning when we won, when quite frankly, I dont give a fuck. GET IN!

[Trumo]

Regarding the game, it's fair to say we controlled matters pretty much throughout. It's from defending corners and set pieces we lack that authority. Carlton Cole is a handful, but didn't have any support in meaningful areas.

 

Their attacker Hines was also a nuisance and should have scored when Carragher made that early mistake, but like last year they didn't take advantage of it. Hines was earning freekicks for them as well as the penalty, but it was more that he was travelling at pace and seems to have very little upper body strength.

 

The penalty did involve 2 touches, but it's hard to call when looking at it in real time so you can't really blame the officials for that. It certainly wasn't done deliberately.

 

Regarding Torres. 2 good goals again today and put himself about, even racing back to make a challenge a few minutes from the end. The thing he needs to curb a little is the effing and blinding at officials though. As a foreign player, he won't get the sort of leeway afforded Rooney.

[Delmar]

So suddenly it's the players that aren't good enough, despite the defensive records during Benitez's time here? Skrtel is supposed to be a top international defender, and while Jamie's career is coming to a close he's still a vastly experienced player.

 

Are you going to bring up the money excuse after every sloppy defensive display this season?

 

If you want me to, no problem. Apart from that I can't be bothered to argue with someone that makes little sense...

[Antynwa]

It was a weird game, I don't actually think we played bad it was just our defense was absolutely fucking shocking.

 

For all Johnson's ability attacking, everyone is right when they say his defending leaves alot to be left desired, I've noticed a lot that he is too far away from the winger when he gets a cross in. He just jockeys him from about 10 meters away.

 

Set Pieces we are just atrocious at defending and I wee myself a little when we have to defend one.

 

Also that Hines had a awesome game for West Ham.

[Spagbol]

If you want me to, no problem. Apart from that I can't be bothered to argue with someone that makes little sense...

 

Irony alert. Keep blaming the money, it's all you've got.

[RyanLFC]

Fucking hell there are some negative bastards on here. We won so shut up! It would be alright if we hadnt have won, but jesus christ.

[Red Phoenix]

So suddenly it's the players that aren't good enough, despite the defensive records during Benitez's time here? Skrtel is supposed to be a top international defender, and while Jamie's career is coming to a close he's still a vastly experienced player.

 

Are you going to bring up the money excuse after every sloppy defensive display this season?

 

Repped for username, I could fucking murder a spagbol right now.

[Red Nick]

Why the negativity?

 

Our performances at this point last season were also poor and we were conceeding sloppy goals and not performing to our full potential, yet we still recovered and mounted a title challenge.

 

If we keep Gerrard and Torres fit for most of the season and Benayoun and kuyt continue to chip in with goals then we will be in with a shout.

Come on

 

There is a huge difference from this time last season to this season.

 

Its clear for all to see.

 

Carra wasnt playing anywhere nearly as badly is he is now and as a unit we were defensively a much better team.

[Kurt]

Three points away from home are always very welcome. Torres looked well up for it. That's 5 in 5. Can't ask for more. Babel looked a bit more like a player on the right too. Nice for Insua to get more minutes under his belt as he develops as a player too. He is not quite there, but I'm really pleased Rafa is keeping faith in this youngster as he could go on to be a fixture in the team for years to come.

 

Two observations:

 

1. Glad Gerrard is not the only one taking a corner these days. He did very well in the box to head it down into the corner, with Kuyt getting the last touch for the second goal. As many have said on here, Stevie needs to be in the box for corners as he is good in the air, or at least he needs to be hovering on the edge of the box for the second ball since he has a great shot. He is wasted when he takes corners, especially since his corners are not that great.

 

2. I am concerned about Carragher. He hasn't looked at his best this season to me. I'm not sure whether it is just a bit of form and he will raise his level a bit or whether it is more serious. I will watch him intently from now on to make up my mind. When we signed Skrtel I thought the future would be Agger/Skrtel, but obviously it was up to Carra how many seasons he kept that at bay. Agger's injury notwithstanding, Carra's form at the moment does not make him undroppable.

 

Agree with that.

 

Regarding Carragher, while its way too early to write him off, I do think it`s safe to say he is on a downward spiral. He is not as consistent on the high level he has played at previous years. Off course he is more vulnerable as we are playing a much more attacking game than we did 3 or 4 years ago, But he is still more than good enough to be our main defender. Skrtel has looked a lot more insecure after his latest injury setback as well and needs to get his act together.

 

I missed the the last 25 minutes of the first half ( and all 4 goals ) looking after my sick boy, but reading this thread I cant believe we all watched the same match. Westham is not an easy away game. This is a ground where we have lost frequently in the past, and we dominated them with between 60-65% posession. I guess much of the complaining was due to frustration after conceding 2 soft goals, but in the end this was a good win and a good performance.

 

The main plus points for me was Torres back into his matchwinning mode. He looked more like the Torres that made us bounce regularly. Still not there, but a Torres at 75% is good enough to win us matches, and that is a big comfort. But it`s vital he stays fit.

 

Babel looked hungry when he came on (think he did well against Debrecen as well) and I was pleased to see him get half an hour, and not 7-8 minutes as he was given most times when he came on last season. But he needs to build on this, and show the same hunger and desire every match.

 

And Lucas as well. I know it`s not popular giving him credit on this very forum but he played well today, and was easily amongst our top three today(unless he had a terrible 20 minute spell in the first i missed ). Today he time and again played incisive passed through Westhams pressure lines, finding Gerrard, Benayoun, Kuyt and Torres in space. It was not all easy sideways passes, but good attacking passes. And also his defensive work was vital. Especially one time when wetham opened us up and Dyer (i think) was found in lots of space just outside the box. Then Lucas arrived nicking the ball and started a counter attack. That was a vital piece of defending. Off course he can improve, but he has played well so far this season, and deserves some praise for that.

 

Im really pleased with the win at a very difficult place notchin up a 4th straight win, which also is a good thing confidence wise. The defending and personal errors needs to be dealt with though, as we could easily been 1 down inside 2 minutes, left chasing yet another match. But it`s all in the head though, and I still feel confident that with more wins, and more confidence we will see them erased as Carra and Skrtel ( them 2 especially) dont turn into poor players overnight.

 

Walk on folks!

[elvis]

Erm, we've consistently had one of the best defences around under Benitez. You can't suddenly start saying it's due to money because previously class defenders are suddenly defending like school kids in a flawed system.

 

I disagree that skirtel has ever been a class defender, although he might prove to be in the future who knows . We had great defences under paisley , but he was never afraid to make changes if he thought he needed to , my point is we dont have good enough back up and cant afford to go out and buy world class replacements .

"Erm" is very patronising as well if you dont mind me saying.