Gerrard's reaction to the Lucas substitution?

[Glen C]

Gerrard is best in the middle with mascherano - simple. They play well together and it allows him to go forward and try and score. Alonso isn't good enough...he's basically a redknapp without the goals. I'd sell him if we get a good enough offer.

[Malarkey]

Steven Gerrard has been a problem for the last two managers of this club and that is a fact. He's the best player and still the most popular with the fans, as well as being the club captain. Despite that, I have severe misgivings about his character/personality and always will. However, the fact remains that it's up to the manager to handle him. Houllier was too close to him and Rafa is too distant.

 

In crude psychological terms, he needs breaking down and building back up again. Someone needs to steal his mantle as the biggest dog in the pack, but then get him quickly back on side again - and it all has to be done without permanently alienating him. Either that, or you sell him and we can hardly afford to be getting rid of world class players at their peak, can we?

 

I'm convinced Rafa wanted him gone from that first dalliance with Chelsea. He saw how big he was in the dressing room and also how his value in the transfer market would fund a genuine overhaul of the team. The problem is I don't think he ever hid the fact from Gerrard so mistrust has always been there. It has only been exascerbated by the whole "He must play in the middle" circus. The facts are that his greatest ever goals tally came from a season spent predominantly on the right; the same season where his peers agreed he was the best player in the league.

 

It now looks like Rafa's time is drawing to a close. However, the issue of how to handle Steven Gerrard will remain the biggest problem facing whoever takes over. How, as a manager, do you make him feel like a king whilst also keeping him hanging on your every word? A huge character is what's required in my view and, whilst I'm pretty fucking far from wanting him here, I believe Mourinho would be up to the task.

 

If we got better players in, and players that score goals and create goals etc, that may well be possible.

[El Rojo]

Steven Gerrard has been a problem for the last two managers of this club and that is a fact. He's the best player and still the most popular with the fans, as well as being the club captain. Despite that, I have severe misgivings about his character/personality and always will. However, the fact remains that it's up to the manager to handle him. Houllier was too close to him and Rafa is too distant.

 

In crude psychological terms, he needs breaking down and building back up again. Someone needs to steal his mantle as the biggest dog in the pack, but then get him quickly back on side again - and it all has to be done without permanently alienating him. Either that, or you sell him and we can hardly afford to be getting rid of world class players at their peak, can we?

 

I'm convinced Rafa wanted him gone from that first dalliance with Chelsea. He saw how big he was in the dressing room and also how his value in the transfer market would fund a genuine overhaul of the team. The problem is I don't think he ever hid the fact from Gerrard so mistrust has always been there. It has only been exascerbated by the whole "He must play in the middle" circus. The facts are that his greatest ever goals tally came from a season spent predominantly on the right; the same season where his peers agreed he was the best player in the league.

 

It now looks like Rafa's time is drawing to a close. However, the issue of how to handle Steven Gerrard will remain the biggest problem facing whoever takes over. How, as a manager, do you make him feel like a king whilst also keeping him hanging on your every word? A huge character is what's required in my view and, whilst I'm pretty fucking far from wanting him here, I believe Mourinho would be up to the task.

 

Penile envy between manager and captain, who'd have thunk it?

[kop]

Did they even do this (whatever "this" is)? And do we have some body language experts in the stands confirming what their body language meant?

 

For fuck sake.

[kop]

Hahahahaha, completely ignore that Carragher did it as well.

 

It doesn't suit the agenda.

[stringvest]

I don't get it. Consistently our best player, scoring goals, choosing to stay at Liverpool when teams winning the PL came knocking and still, every time we have a bad game it's "Gerrard didn't this" or "Gerrard's attidtude that".

 

We have players out there who are crap and not even trying and we slate our captain, who time and again is the one who looks like he cares and scores or makes the goals to paper over the cracks?

 

When was the last time Mascherano scored a goal? When was the last time Kewell played well? When did Beni do anything but stink the place out when he played wide? When did Riise last hit the target?

 

It's annoying, but some people can't see beyond their own warped version of objectivity. You're right.

[Turkish Delight]

Gerrard is best in the middle with mascherano - simple. They play well together and it allows him to go forward and try and score. Alonso isn't good enough...he's basically a redknapp without the goals. I'd sell him if we get a good enough offer.

 

This is slightly off the topic of the thread (I didn't see any bad reaction anyway so I don't really care) but did anybody else notice that we only started playing proper pass and move football when Lucas came on? I thought the same in the derby as well despite all of the uproar about Gerrard going off.

 

I don't feel that Mascherano or Alonso are capable of playing in the way that Lucas does in that neither of them will get into an attacking position as their movement just isn't as good. Both have a tendency to slow the game down too much when they are in possession as well.

 

We may lose something defensively without one of the two of them there but I do think we should try Gerrard and Lucas together against all but the best teams as I'm sick of getting frustrated by slow football that ultimately ends up going nowhere.

[theRedHorse]

More is expected from Gerrard than from other players.

 

He IS our captain and a brilliant player.

 

HE should be motivating the rest of the team on the pitch- Rafa can't wander on to the pitch during the game.

 

HE should be publicly backing the manager- the way the fans have publicly backed the manager.

[tomasjj]

Steven Gerrard is a knob, but a very good footballer.

[coop]

This is slightly off the topic of the thread (I didn't see any bad reaction anyway so I don't really care) but did anybody else notice that we only started playing proper pass and move football when Lucas came on? I thought the same in the derby as well despite all of the uproar about Gerrard going off.

 

I don't feel that Mascherano or Alonso are capable of playing in the way that Lucas does in that neither of them will get into an attacking position as their movement just isn't as good. Both have a tendency to slow the game down too much when they are in possession as well.

 

We may lose something defensively without one of the two of them there but I do think we should try Gerrard and Lucas together against all but the best teams as I'm sick of getting frustrated by slow football that ultimately ends up going nowhere.

 

Wont happen as thats too much of an attacking system with Rafa.

[WaltonRed]

Pauls spot on in my opinion, top post.

[Turkish Delight]

Wont happen as thats too much of an attacking system with Rafa.

 

You're almost certainly right but when 90% of the teams we play are intent on by-passing the midfield by playing the ball over the top anyway does anybody else feel there isn't any real requirement for having an out-and-out defensive midfielder unless we're playing a top side?

[Randy Marsh]

Gerrard is best in the middle with mascherano - simple. They play well together and it allows him to go forward and try and score. Alonso isn't good enough...he's basically a redknapp without the goals. I'd sell him if we get a good enough offer.

 

Ive never looked at him like that before, but there is an element of truth in that statement. He seems to have had a poor run of injurys which havnt helped the lad, but he hasnt shown the same consisitency of his first 2seasons. Masch has come in and Xabi hasnt yet rose to the challenge, as Momo couldnt do. Xabi needs to step up a gear to push on to the next level. Hope he does because he's one of my favourite players. Him and Chief would be my midfield pairing, with gerrard in his right midfield/ "free role". Stevie is too shackled in the middle, let the others do the donkey work, and leave gerrard to do what he does best and attack teams. Certainly seems like the media "get gerrard in the middle" campaign has had an affect on rafa's team selections, suprisingly. Shame because gerrard is still our strongest attacking threat, despite the money spent on pennant/gonzalez/benayoun etc,.

[Paul]

Steven Gerrard has been a problem for the last two managers of this club and that is a fact. He's the best player and still the most popular with the fans, as well as being the club captain. Despite that, I have severe misgivings about his character/personality and always will. However, the fact remains that it's up to the manager to handle him. Houllier was too close to him and Rafa is too distant.

 

In crude psychological terms, he needs breaking down and building back up again. Someone needs to steal his mantle as the biggest dog in the pack, but then get him quickly back on side again - and it all has to be done without permanently alienating him. Either that, or you sell him and we can hardly afford to be getting rid of world class players at their peak, can we?

 

I'm convinced Rafa wanted him gone from that first dalliance with Chelsea. He saw how big he was in the dressing room and also how his value in the transfer market would fund a genuine overhaul of the team. The problem is I don't think he ever hid the fact from Gerrard so mistrust has always been there. It has only been exascerbated by the whole "He must play in the middle" circus. The facts are that his greatest ever goals tally came from a season spent predominantly on the right; the same season where his peers agreed he was the best player in the league.

 

It now looks like Rafa's time is drawing to a close. However, the issue of how to handle Steven Gerrard will remain the biggest problem facing whoever takes over. How, as a manager, do you make him feel like a king whilst also keeping him hanging on your every word? A huge character is what's required in my view and, whilst I'm pretty fucking far from wanting him here, I believe Mourinho would be up to the task.

 

I maybe wasn't clear enough here.

 

Firstly, my point about stealing his mantle was that the manager has to be the biggest dog in any football club. The second a player thinks he's that, you're in trouble. Other big players would make things worse, rather than better if the manager wasn't ultimately seen as the biggest personality involved.

 

Secondly, my post is my opinion irrespective of whether this shaking of the heads thing actually happened.

 

Thirdly, if it did, whilst I can't condone Carra and Gerrard, I can't castigate them either. I reckon I'd feel frustrated, confused and demotivated if I was playing for Liverpool right now.

[GRADY]

To be honest, Gerrard and where he plays has been a fucking headache ever since Houllier became so dependent on him. He can't seem to form a decent partnership with Mascherano in the centre, and he never really has with Alonso either; but play him anywhere else and he sulks and under-performs. (Whether he was doing so tonight isn't really the point).

 

Ever since he first broke through, his biggest contributions to the team have always come when he's been playing somewhere other than central midfield - dating back to him playing on the right alongside Didi and Gary Mac. But he seems to hold so much power at the club and in the dressing room that even Benitez finally had to admit defeat and let him play in the centre – where he's never as effective and seems to fuck up other players to boot.

 

I hope Capello drops him from the England squad; it might just give him the kick up the arse he needs. Someone needs to do it, and it won't be anyone at Liverpool.

Ive never heard so much shite. Gerrard is Liverpools best player bar none.

He has been the main reason we have won trophies in the last 5 years.

 

It amazes me how people come out and criticise him when you have over rated players like alonso and aurellio playing fuckin shite on a regular basis and nobody says fuck all about that

 

However if gerrard isnt the best player on the pitch people say he has an attitude problem. I watched the game last night and he was a dam site better than pretty much every player on the pitch in a liverpool shirt.

[TG3]

Another thread about slating Gerrard.

 

This is a fucking joke, the lad is world class and we all know that we haven't got enough of them at our club!!!

 

People are too quick to jump on the 'Gerrard's attitude/personality' bandwagon. It's a disgrace, the lad put in more effort yesterday than anyone, yet people are still questioning him. If we sell him it wont be like Henry leaving Arsenal because we don't have a replacement for him and I can't see who would come to us if Gerrard left. Most players come to Liverpool to play alongside Gerrard, not to replace him!

[GRADY]

It pisses me off so much this Gerrard bashing by some fans. Open your fuckin eyes will u and look at the shite playing alongside him.

Last night everyone knows there are torres and gerrard who are capable of diggin us out the shit and winning the game from nothing for us.

 

When was the last time Alonso won us a game of his own back?? In fact how many goals has that guy set up in the last 18 months? Yet I have never heard 1 critical comment in relation to him on here.

 

Gerrard is 5 times the fuckin player alonso is and a local lad made good yet people cant wait to give him shit.

[Randy Marsh]

Another thread about slating Gerrard.

 

This is a fucking joke, the lad is world class and we all know that we haven't got enough of them at our club!!!

 

People are too quick to jump on the 'Gerrard's attitude/personality' bandwagon. It's a disgrace, the lad put in more effort yesterday than anyone, yet people are still questioning him. If we sell him it wont be like Henry leaving Arsenal because we don't have a replacement for him and I can't see who would come to us if Gerrard left. Most players come to Liverpool to play alongside Gerrard, not to replace him!

 

spot on mate, exactly what i said a few pages back. There are about 18other players in the squad id be seriously looking at before gerrrad. People automatically expect him to do a superman act every game, and if he doesnt "he doesnt look arsed" or "his body language is wrong". Fuckin bullshit. Everyone would be crying if he decided to piss off to Spain, or even worse London. Just look at the shite playing around him! Him and Torres have to bail us out all the fucking time. Enoughs enoough. The rest of the squad need to grow a pair of fucking balls, pull their fuckin fingers out their arses, and start taking some responsibilty for the awful mess we are in. Too many shitbags who have no bottle and no heart for the fight

[TG3]

spot on mate, exactly what i said a few pages back. There are about 18other players in the squad id be seriously looking at before gerrrad. People automatically expect him to do a superman act every game, and if he doesnt "he doesnt look arsed" or "his body language is wrong". Fuckin bullshit. Everyone would be crying if he decided to piss off to Spain, or even worse London. Just look at the shite playing around him! Him and Torres have to bail us out all the fucking time. Enoughs enoough. The rest of the squad need to grow a pair of fucking balls, pull their fuckin fingers out their arses, and start taking some responsibilty for the awful mess we are in. Too many shitbags who have no bottle and no heart for the fight

 

People who say his body language is wrong, wouldn't yours be if you was running your bollocks off and then you see the shite that he has to put up with on the pitch? He's the best player I have ever seen (wasn't around to see Kenny) and it pisses me off when people start slagging him off. Alright he mightn't be the best captain in the world, or be the best at signing signatures after a match, but who gives a fuck so long as he plays the way he does for us?