'Firearms incident' at Westminster

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

There's definitely a debate to be had. But there has to be a balance struck between public protection and prevention of terrorism etc versus civil liberties, privacy and the protection of innocent correspondence.

 

It's whether we trust our elected representatives to strike that balance or not. Then there's the other end of the scale with Apple refusing access to the San Bernardino shooters phone and the even more ridiculous recently reported case of an 18 year old with terminal cancer, who's now died, but wrote all his funeral plans down on his iPad as it upset his family to discuss it, but now Apple are refusing to unlock the device to reveal his wishes.

[s(k)aturation]

There's definitely a debate to be had. But there has to be a balance struck between public protection and prevention of terrorism etc versus civil liberties, privacy and the protection of innocent correspondence.

 

It's whether we trust our elected representatives to strike that balance or not. Then there's the other end of the scale with Apple refusing access to the San Bernardino shooters phone and the even more ridiculous recently reported case of an 18 year old with terminal cancer, who's now died, but wrote all his funeral plans down on his iPad as it upset his family to discuss it, but now Apple are refusing to unlock the device to reveal his wishes.

 

 

Yes, Apple.

That wonderful, philanthropic, humanist organisation... whose every move is made with rigorous ethical motivation.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

And, while we're at it, the government shouldn't just look at WhatsApp etc, they need to sort the prison system out.

 

There's been a fair few terrorist incidents around Europe when the term "radicalised in prison" has cropped up. It's been chucked about regarding the Westminster attacker.

 

There's been riots and wing takeovers reported in the news. A few documentaries inside prisons too. Spice is apparently rife in prisons. There seems to be a breakdown in control with different groups exerting influence inside.

 

It's a prime recruiting ground for Islamists. Offer protection to a vulnerable inmate. Radicalise/convert them. Fill their head full of shit and then get them to do the atrocities that the influencer is too chicken to do themselves.

 

Apparently, it's a big issue in France. I can see similar over here, what with cuts and the inceasing privatisation and de-skilling of prison staff.

[skend04]

So, here's a similar incident to the 'terrorist' attack but yet it's not a 'terrorist' related incident. Someone going to tell me why the same act on innocent bystanders is being treated quite differently?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39397669

[M_B]

Put in place a system where the authorities can make an emergency application to a judge (out of hours if necessary) for an order accessing his account, so Whassap can decrypt his, and only his, data. The judge can provide oversight as to whether the access is needed and whether any further access is required from other users with whom he was communicating.

 

 

I'd tell the government to fuck off personally. Once you put in a backdoor laws will change to make it accessible.

[Rico1304]

I'd tell the government to fuck off personally. Once you put in a backdoor laws will change to make it accessible.

But you trust a private company who tells you the data is safe?

[Bjornebye]

I fucking love that scene.  All the nonsense the old fella is spouting when he's walking to the door and then John Cleese's face when dozens of soldiers are tramping past him.

 

 

Pissing myself just reading what you have put there. One of a million amazing moments in easily the funniest film of all time. Ever. 

[M_B]

But you trust a private company who tells you the data is safe?

 

 

No, but its as safe as it can be.

[sir roger]

Heard a politician trumpeting that after Wednesday there can be no hiding place for terrorists , and wondered whether it was okay to hide them before Wednesday.

[Rico1304]

No, but its as safe as it can be.

Is it? What if Donald Trump buys the company? Or Vladimir Putin? Or Rupert Murdoch?

[M_B]

Is it? What if Donald Trump buys the company? Or Vladimir Putin? Or Rupert Murdoch?

 

 

Then if they currently have terabytes of stored data (at a massive cost which makes no economic sense for a private company and which is currently very illegal) then they would need to find some way of decrypting it which they can't. They would have to remove the encryption at which point everyone would have moved to another provider that has encrypted messaging.

 

But the point is that the government wants a back door and they shouldn't be given one.

[Rico1304]

Then if they currently have terabytes of stored data (at a massive cost which makes no economic sense for a private company and which is currently very illegal) then they would need to find some way of decrypting it which they can't. They would have to remove the encryption at which point everyone would have moved to another provider that has encrypted messaging.

 

But the point is that the government wants a back door and they shouldn't be given one.

No economic benefit? You can't think of any situation where a rich person may benefit from knowing the secrets of his rivals, or governments? Come on FFS. I may be going Denis Tooth here but you believe they don't already have one...because they told you they don't have one.

[Anubis]

I'd tell the government to fuck off personally. Once you put in a backdoor laws will change to make it accessible.

I haven't said put in a backdoor. I've said obtain a court order so Whassap can decrypt the individual account and hand over the decrypted data. Their encryption remains intact. A judge's oversight is independent of government.

[clangers]

I haven't said put in a backdoor. I've said obtain a court order so Whassap can decrypt the individual account and hand over the decrypted data. Their encryption remains intact. A judge's oversight is independent of government.

Trouble is given the experience of the recently introduced snoopers charter that isn't what May and Rudd will want, they'll want to open up data access to all areas of government. It's of critical importance in the fight against terrorism that the Welsh Ambulance Service through to the Food Standards Agency have unrestricted access to web activity, email's and mobile communications.

[Anubis]

Yes, I know what they want. I was suggesting an alternative.

[Rico1304]

Yes, I know what they want. I was suggesting an alternative.

Imagine setting up a company that promised to keep everyone's secrets (for free) and then having everyone give you their secrets. Wow.

[Harry Squatter]

Remember when the Police murdered Jean Charles de Menezes? The case for their defence was that they thought it was someone else that one officer was pinning down to his seat while another officer fired eight shots from point blank range at his head. Well, it turns out that the person they were looking for was subsequently taken alive and proved to be a valuable source of information, which probably helped to save lives.

 

There are very good moral reasons why a state shouldn't use death squads. If you're an amoral witless prick, you can still agree that there are very good practical reasons.

Sounds he didn't have a holiness to Raqqa and receive a personal call off the head of ISIS?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

According to the screaming headline of the Star, the Westminster attacker "was a benefits cheat".

 

Now I know that, I think he was a proper cunt.

[magicrat]

The government only has themselves to blame for the growing use of encrypted  communications . I would love to feel relaxed about them using clandestine powers to root out can catch people that wish to do us harm but instead all I see are are unscrupulous politicians doing the bidding of big businesses and foreign based media moguls. How the fuck would Amber Rudd suddenly discover a sense of integrity,  They're all liars 

[M_B]

No economic benefit? You can't think of any situation where a rich person may benefit from knowing the secrets of his rivals, or governments? Come on FFS. I may be going Denis Tooth here but you believe they don't already have one...because they told you they don't have one.

 

I've worked for Telecoms (in their IT, not call handling) - I know they don't archive communications. Not only is it illegal but it would be massively expensive.

[M_B]

I haven't said put in a backdoor. I've said obtain a court order so Whassap can decrypt the individual account and hand over the decrypted data. Their encryption remains intact. A judge's oversight is independent of government.

 

But which judge? You are assuming a UK judge. A judge in another country could be used to bypass it. It is safer not to have it in the first place.

[Anny Road]

How many civilians did we slaughter 'mistakenly' this week.

[Section_31]

It's clear this somewhat portly 50-something from Kent was only able to grab two steak knives and jump in a car thanks to the interwebs, down, down with the interwebs! 

[cloggypop]

Imagine setting up a company that promised to keep everyone's secrets (for free) and then having everyone give you their secrets. Wow.

Like Dropbox?

[VladimirIlyich]

And, while we're at it, the government shouldn't just look at WhatsApp etc, they need to sort the prison system out.

 

There's been a fair few terrorist incidents around Europe when the term "radicalised in prison" has cropped up. It's been chucked about regarding the Westminster attacker.

 

There's been riots and wing takeovers reported in the news. A few documentaries inside prisons too. Spice is apparently rife in prisons. There seems to be a breakdown in control with different groups exerting influence inside.

 

It's a prime recruiting ground for Islamists. Offer protection to a vulnerable inmate. Radicalise/convert them. Fill their head full of shit and then get them to do the atrocities that the influencer is too chicken to do themselves.

 

Apparently, it's a big issue in France. I can see similar over here, what with cuts and the inceasing privatisation and de-skilling of prison staff.

Any correlation with the poor treatment of Prison employees and the doleing out of services to private companies you reckon?