Other football 2016/17.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I think there is plenty of talent but bad leadership.  Put Klopp in charge and...

 

They'd end up playing better, but the defence would still be a problem. Forward options don't inspire either going on current form and game time. 

[Trumo]

Sampaoli has got his pressing strategy spot on. Bielsa-like.

 

Bielsa is his mentor.

[3 Stacks]

Steven N'Zonzi is one of the most underrated players in Europe. Class holding player.

[Red House]

End-to-end start to the second half. Three big goal-scoring opportunities in the first three minutes.

[Pureblood]

They'd end up playing better, but the defence would still be a problem. Forward options don't inspire either going on current form and game time. 

 

I think England will always be handicapped by bad choices of managers, the FA's general incompetence and the lack of a winter break.  

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I think England will always be handicapped by bad choices of managers, the FA's general incompetence and the lack of a winter break.  

 

True, as long as they don't go for Klopp. Southgate is not keen at it long term. You wait, Moyes will get the push from Sunderland and boom.

[Pureblood]

As long as they don't go for Klopp. 

 

Rodgers might be a decent shout, when he gets bored at Celtic.  

[Jairzinho]

Messi has denied Suarez an outrageous assist there.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Rodgers might be a decent shout, when he gets bored at Celtic.  

 

Not for me personally, but he would be an improvement on what has proceeded. I reckon the last decent manager we had was SGE and he wasn't all that either. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Messi has denied Suarez an outrageous assist there.

 

Class back heel.

[Jairzinho]

Barely matters who the manager is. England will never win anything whilst they have to pick English players.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

That would have been some goal by Messi, danced 4 of them out of the game. 

[Red House]

Suarez 2-1. Messi gliding past players.

[Pureblood]

Not for me personally, but he would be an improvement on what has proceeded. I reckon the last decent manager we had was SGE and he wasn't all that either. 

 

Yeah maybe Rodgers  wouldn't be good at tournament football with his defensive vulnerability and record in cup competitions.  I just think it needs someone with a long term vision and I still think Brendan has that.  I quite liked Hoddle although I can see why lots didn't.  Some of the appointments have been an absolute joke, though.  McClaren, Owl, Fatso.  Every time it ends in tears.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Barely matters who the manager is. England will never win anything whilst they have to pick English players.

 

Not many International teams do win a trophy, only 2 major ones every 4 years. I'd just like to see us have a decent manager who would cut the ego's out and get them playing to their potential. We do have some decent players, obviously other teams have better, but we would be far from crap if managed properly. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

That goal has been coming, come on Sevilla. 

[Jairzinho]

Not many International teams do win a trophy, only 2 major ones every 4 years. I'd just like to see us have a decent manager who would cut the ego's out and get them playing to their potential. We do have some decent players, obviously other teams have better, but we would be far from crap if managed properly. 

 

Okay, I'll rephrase it, "England will never win anything be any good whilst they have to pick English players."

 

I don't deny England have some good players, we have some of them, after all, but they tend to need babysitting by foreigners. You couldn't finish in the top half of the Premier League if you tried to put together an all English team. They wouldn't have the collective tactical nous.

 

Would you have confidence if, for example, our entire back four was English? 

 

It's not going to change until 12 year olds are taught about tactics as they are in Italy, even at semi-professional clubs. It won't change until 10 year olds are no longer playing on full sized pitches. It won't change until English players realise that they are allowed to play football in other countries.

[Pureblood]

Okay, I'll rephrase it, "England will never win anything be any good whilst they have to pick English players."

 

I don't deny England have some good players, we have some of them, after all, but they tend to need babysitting by foreigners. You couldn't finish in the top half of the Premier League if you tried to put together an all English team. They wouldn't have the collective tactical nous.

 

Would you have confidence if, for example, our entire back four was English? 

 

How do you explain England getting to the semis of Euro 96 and Italia 90, only narrowly losing out on penalties to the eventual winners both times? If they were tactically inept they wouldn't get that far.  

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Okay, I'll rephrase it, "England will never win anything be any good whilst they have to pick English players."

 

I don't deny England have some good players, we have some of them, after all, but they tend to need babysitting by foreigners. You couldn't finish in the top half of the Premier League if you tried to put together an all English team. They wouldn't have the collective tactical nous.

 

Would you have confidence if, for example, our entire back four was English? 

 

It's not going to change until 12 year olds are taught about tactics as they are in Italy, even at semi-professional clubs. It won't change until 10 year olds are no longer playing on full sized pitches. It won't change until English players realise that they are allowed to play football in other countries.

 

A decent coaching program is needed, no doubt about it. These schools of excellence etc are fine, but if you just have jobs for the boys coaching them then nothing will change. They need to take a look at how things are done in Germany, Spain etc. I still live in hope as far as England goes, maybe I'm a fool but I support them and hope they do well. Obviously club football comes first like, and I always have zee German team to fall back on internationally speaking.

 

If England appointed a good manager however, look at the shite Klopp has polished into a very slick outfit. 

[Jairzinho]

How do you explain England getting to the semis of Euro 96 and Italia 90, only narrowly losing out on penalties to the eventual winners both times? If they were tactically inept they wouldn't get that far.  

 

I'm not sure that two semi final appearances necessarily negates my point. It's basically the output of a side that is about 15th-20th in the world, which they were/are. Although, England were a better team collection of individual talents then, and in fact some of the players did play abroad in that era.

 

A tactically inept set of very good technical footballers is still likely to beat a team full of, intelligent, well drilled, pub footballers.

 

We're not dealing in absolutes, but we have won less than Greece and Denmark in the last 40 years.

[Pureblood]

I'm not sure that two semi final appearances necessarily negates my point. It's basically the output of a side that is about 15th-20th in the world, which they were/are. Although, England were a better team collection of individual talents then, and in fact some of the players did play abroad in that era.

 

A tactically inept set of very good technical footballers is still likely to beat a team full of, intelligent, well drilled, pub footballers.

 

We're not dealing in absolutes, but we have won less than Greece and Denmark in the last 40 years.

 

Yes, but you're saying they're not capable of winning anything when in fact they came pretty close a couple of times only losing out to the eventual winners.  As you say if Greece can win the Euros then England can win a trophy.   I thought we were dealing in absolutes because you said England will never win anything (because the players are English).  That's a pretty definitive statement. 

[Jairzinho]

A decent coaching program is needed, no doubt about it. These schools of excellence etc are fine, but if you just have jobs for the boys coaching them then nothing will change. They need to take a look at how things are done in Germany, Spain etc. I still live in hope as far as England goes, maybe I'm a fool but I support them and hope they do well. Obviously club football comes first like, and I always have zee German team to fall back on internationally speaking.

 

If England appointed a goof manager however, look at the shite Klopp has polished into a very slick outfit. 

 

Definitely agreed on the first point. While the FA is full of people that essentially couldn't care less (like the ECB twats you see quaffing champagne at Lords), and keep appointing people that you wouldn't put in charge of a burger van, all the investment in grassroots stuff won't translate.

 

England don't have a centreback as good as Matip. He's basically Stones without the brain farts every game. 

 

Nor can England pick a front three anywhere near as good as Coutinho/Mane/Firmino. Imagine Klopp had Rooney, Walcott, and Sterling (or whichever forwards from the squad) instead. Imagine his job of trying to explain when to press, etc, to these idiots.

[Trumo]

How do you explain England getting to the semis of Euro 96 and Italia 90, only narrowly losing out on penalties to the eventual winners both times? If they were tactically inept they wouldn't get that far.  

 

Though they got to the semis, England's record in the knockout stages is abysmal. In 1990, they scraped past Belgium in the last minute of extra time, were taken to extra time by Cameroon and then lost on penalties to the Germans after extra time (though they were good in that game, it's true). In 1996, they were lucky to get to penalties against the Spaniards and perhaps a tad unlucky to lose on penalties to the Germans again. The emphasis was more on effort and commitment with the more skilful aspects tacked on rather than a tactical understanding of the game that would allow the team to dictate and control the games. Also, a number of players in those squads knew what it was like to play for clubs abroad, learning things they never would have learned by staying in England.

[Pureblood]

Though they got to the semis, England's record in the knockout stages is abysmal. In 1990, they scraped past Belgium in the last minute of extra time, were taken to extra time by Cameroon and then lost on penalties to the Germans after extra time (though they were good in that game, it's true). In 1996, they were lucky to get to penalties against the Spaniards and perhaps a tad unlucky to lose on penalties to the Germans again. The emphasis was more on effort and commitment with the more skilful aspects tacked on rather than a tactical understanding of the game that would allow the team to dictate and control the games. Also, a number of players in those squads knew what it was like to play for clubs abroad, learning things they never would have learned by staying in England.

 

That's besides the point, Trumo.  Anything can happen in tournament football, therefore all that is required is a vision and good leadership to give the team a chance.  In recent times England haven't benefited from either. 

[Jairzinho]

Yes, but you're saying they're not capable of winning anything when in fact they came pretty close a couple of times only losing out to the eventual winners.  As you say if Greece can win the Euros then England can win a trophy.   I thought we were dealing in absolutes because you said England will never win anything (because the players are English).  That's a pretty definitive statement. 

 

It's a pretty definitive statement if you choose to read everything I write as being entirely literal/definitive.

 

*Don't*

 

Of course they have a chance, in the same way similar quality sides like Poland and Wales do. My point, as you're well aware, is that they have very little chance, and that changing the manager is rearranging deck chairs.