Analysis: How Lucas controlled the game

[Pureblood]

Lucas got coached into the role, though it took 3 years.  I don't see why Henderson couldn't.  I can't imagine however that Henderson is a better 'shooter' than Lucas, primarily because Henderson panics more than a premiership footballer should when presented with good scoring opportunities.  He certainly has more energy and mobility, so a pressing game is more natural.  Mascherano was a fantastic harrier and presser of the opposition, he was able to do this from deep and covered more of the pitch as he is more mobile.  

 

It didn't take three years, this is the problem with you.  You're not talking even remotely rationally.  That's why you're not even capable of realising that Henderson is ill equipped for the role.  

[Guest LFD]

Yeah that's a fair point if Henderson is going to be criticised for his shooitng, then so should Coutinho. Both can do better in that area.

[stringvest]

It didn't take three years, this is the problem with you.  You're not talking even remotely rationally.  That's why you're not even capable of realising that Henderson is ill equipped for the role.  

 

When do you think Lucas was playing at a level commensurate with a top half team?  If you think he was doing that in his first two years, you're the one not talking rationally.   He only really came of age under Hodgson and improved under Dalglish.  

[Captain]

Nevermind.

[Pureblood]

When do you think Lucas was playing at a level commensurate with a top half team?  If you think he was doing that in his first two years, you're the one not talking rationally.   He only really came of age under Hodgson and improved under Dalglish.  

 

He wasn't a regular in 2008/2009 but you've already admitted that he came of age under Hodgson in 2010, so it can't have taken three years.  This whole 3 year thing is just you exaggerating and trying to make Lucas look like a cunt, because you've always been wrong about him.

 

He's been good enough for a top half club (whatever that is) from the very start, hence playing in games like the 1-0 win at Inter Milan.  As a player you would get found out pretty quickly at that level if you weren't remotely good enough, as you claimed at the time.  You were wrong all those years ago and you're wrong now.  You predicted the likes of Lucas and Kuyt would be sold as soon as Rafa was sacked, but you were wrong about that too.  You're the type of idiot who cheered the likes of Purslow on in vulgar fashion as attempts were made to sell players like Lucas. 

 

As soon as Lucas became a regular in the team he was featuring highly in the yearly MOTM threads run by Morse across all forums, a much more objective measurement than your solitary view.  Three years is utter nonsense.  

[stringvest]

He wasn't great under Hodgson, just a lot better than the abject performances we had to endure when he got into the team. I was right then, and I'm right now. Lucas is a much much better player than he was. Everyone but you can see that. Lucas is no great shakes even now. Most people agree with that. Your fanboy zeal and your shrieking when anyone has a pop, no matter how mild, is embarrassing.

[Pureblood]

Well the manager doesn't agree with this no great shakes theory because he picks Lucas in every game.  So did the last three managers before him.  So we've gone through four managers and about 12 transfer windows yet still Lucas is getting picked.  Ergo you are totally wrong.  

[stringvest]

He's the only DM we have.

[Pureblood]

But there has been more than adequate time, four managers, many transfer windows and lots of money to replace him (and if you count the Aquilani money about 60m quid has gone on midfielders). The list is endless: Spearing (home grown), Aquilani, Meireles, Adam, Henderson, Allen, Sahin, Poulsen - all of these players seen off comfortably by Lucas to retain the holding role.  

[Captain]

The likes of Sahin and Aquilani seen off by Lucas? I mean, seriously?

[Major Tom]

But there has been more than adequate time, four managers, many transfer windows and lots of money to replace him (and if you count the Aquilani money about 60m quid has gone on midfielders). The list is endless: Spearing (home grown), Aquilani, Meireles, Adam, Henderson, Allen, Sahin, Poulsen - all of these players seen off comfortably by Lucas to retain the holding role.  

Stretching credibility with a few names in that list. Probably most of them, actually.

[Major Tom]

meh
 

[Guest LFD]

The likes of Sahin and Aquilani seen off by Lucas? I mean, seriously?

Sahin played holding midfielder for us in one game and was awful.  Poulsen, Allen and Spearing all were significantly worse at the role as well.

 

I agree with Stringvest that Lucas didn't start great at the club and got better. I just think he is a very good player now. Not world class, there are better defensive midfielders in the world, but he is very effective and an important player in our team.

[stringvest]

For heavens sake Martin. You forgot Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing as well.

[Pureblood]

Stretching credibility with a few names in that list. Probably most of them, actually.

I don't think it's stretching anything.  At various times lots of fans and people on here have suggested playing those players instead of Lucas.  In some cases it was tried, as with Spearing and Poulsen, and they weren't good enough. Sahin didn't cut it here either and his suspect attitude saw him leave as quickly as he arrived.  Contrast that with Lucas who has stuck to his task.  

[stringvest]

He has no credibility where Lucas is concerned.

[Major Tom]

I don't think it's stretching anything.  At various times lots of fans and people on here have suggested playing those players instead of Lucas.  In some cases it was tried, as with Spearing and Poulsen, and they weren't good enough. Sahin didn't cut it here either and his suspect attitude saw him leave as quickly as he arrived.  Contrast that with Lucas who has stuck to his task.  

 

What people suggest on a football forum and what actually played out in reality are two different things.

 

I am a Lucas fan, possibly not to the extent that you seem to be, but I like the guy nonetheless. To claim, though, that he has seen off Sahin, Henderson, Allen, Aquilani and Meireles in the holding role is just plain wrong.

 

He's a good player, but he can be improved upon. And probably needs to be if we have loftier ambitions

[Pureblood]

What people suggest on a football forum and what actually played out in reality are two different things.

 

I am a Lucas fan, possibly not to the extent that you seem to be, but I like the guy nonetheless. To claim, though, that he has seen off Sahin, Henderson, Allen, Aquilani and Meireles in the holding role is just plain wrong.

 

He's a good player, but he can be improved upon. And probably needs to be if we have loftier ambitions

 

Not just the holding role, the midfield as a whole.  For example Numero Thingy wanted Allen and Sahin instead of Lucas.  Stringvest argues (wrongly) that Henderson should play there.  That's what I'm getting at.  Just making the point that despite all the midfielders we've signed and brought through the ranks none have been good enough to oust the supposed (if you listen to people like stringvest) shambles that was Lucas.  

[Pureblood]

 

He's a good player, but he can be improved upon. And probably needs to be if we have loftier ambitions

 

So how is he going to be improved upon, will this new player complete 100% of his passes against Fulham instead of just 97%?  Or will he win all of the headers and tackles instead of most of them?  How much will this player cost, he sounds pretty good to me. And before you say it was just Fulham this thread was started from the West Brom game.  So that's two out of three matches where he has dominated the ball and possession, who is the player that is going to improve this?

[Captain]

Sahin played holding midfielder for us in one game and was awful. 

 

I'm sorry to be blunt here, but if you think Sahin is a defensive midfielder you need your head tested.

[stringvest]

Not just the holding role, the midfield as a whole.  For example Numero Thingy wanted Allen and Sahin instead of Lucas.  Stringvest argues (wrongly) that Henderson should play there.  That's what I'm getting at.  Just making the point that despite all the midfielders we've signed and brought through the ranks none have been good enough to oust the supposed (if you listen to people like stringvest) shambles that was Lucas.

 

Stop shrieking you enormous drama queen.. He's not a shambles, he's just not great.

[Guest LFD]

I'm sorry to be blunt here, but if you think Sahin is a defensive midfielder you need your head tested.

 

I don't but he was used as the deep midfielder, probably with the idea that he'll be more of a play maker - but he still has to be able to defend in that position and he failed.  

[Saintslfc13]

I'm sorry to be blunt here, but if you think Sahin is a defensive midfielder you need your head tested.

 

 

Sahin himself seems to think he's a deep-lying/holding midfielder which would be he has to at least be competent defensively.

 

 

"I did not fail at Liverpool. Brendan Rodgers wanted me to play as a number 10. But I do not play behind the strikers.

"I talked to him and asked him why he was playing me there. It is not my real position. The coach could not answer me … Still, no regrets. To play at Anfield was a wonderful experience. And maybe if I had not gone there I would not have been able to return to Borussia Dortmund. For that, I am happy. Thank God I have left Brendan Rodgers."

 

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/mar/14/nuri-sahin-liverpool-brendan-rodgers

[Jose Jones]

Sahin should have been played as a deep lying play maker.  The Alonso role with a Mascherano alongside him, if you will.

However Gerrard has been playing that position under Rodgers and Sahin wasn't knocking him out of the team.  We also didn't have Lucas for the whole time Sahin was here, so had no defensive midfielder he could play alongside.  Anyway, Lucas is pretty good.  He plays well in a team that is set up well.  He doesn't dominate the opposition (very often) in the way the great players do though.

[Pureblood]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/4961/international-football/2013/10/12/4329005/lucas-leiva-targets-brazil-stay

 

Lucas Leiva has stated his ambition to work his way back into the Brazil squad after coming on as a second-half substitute during their 2-0 victory over South Korea on Satuday.

The Liverpool midfielder replaced Oscar with 20 minutes remaining at the World Cup Stadium in Seoul to make his first appearance for the Selecao since 2011.

And now the 26-year-old has outlined his desire to earn a permanent place in Luiz Felipe Scolari’s squad ahead of the World Cup next year.

"My first goal in coming back to the squad is to earn a place for myself in the group,” he told TV Globol.

“I know we don't have many games until the World Cup, but I think that in the time I got today I showed something.

"I talked to Felipao and he asked me to do a job similar to what I do for Liverpool and that's what I tried to do today.

"I felt really comfortable, especially since I know many of the guys here, some of them for many years.

“I think it’s important that I feel like I have always been here. Now we have another match against Zambia which will be really important."

The former Gremio man went on to echo statements from the camp this week that it is just as important that he prove his worth to the squad off the pitch.

"Scolari always talks about how he doesn't just analyse the games,” he continued.

“He's watching how we perform in training, too. We know he admires players who help form the group and we're trying to fit that profile.

“But, of course, when we get opportunities in matches we have to take them and show that we can remain here and be part of the World Cup squad. I believe that if I get these chances I will show that I am ready to be here."