Alienware vs Mac

[kelster]

Here are the main specs for the 13-inch Macbook Pro...

 

£999

2.5GHz Intel i5

4GB 1600MHz memory

500GB hard drive

Intel HD Graphics 4000

Built-in battery (7 hours)

 

and then you'd need to spend a couple of hundred quid on the Apple website to get it close (but still inferior) to the 14-inch Samsung 700Z3C

 

£899

2.6GHz Intel i5

8GB 1600MHz memory

1TB hard drive

NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M

Battery 6 hours

 

The Samsung did come installed with all sorts of bloatware unfortunately, but they did include a Windows 7 disk for a clean install.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Apple says the battery lasts 7 hours to 6 for the Samsung. And that really is it.

 

That's it? Nothing better about the quality of materials, screen specs, backlight, resolution, components manufacturers, design, operating system? Okay.

 

I'd not buy a Mac desktop, personally, but I'd buy a laptop.

 

EDIT: This one?

 

 

 

I've been looking at the 15 inch Macbook Pro with retina display.

[kelster]

That's it? Nothing better about the quality of materials, screen specs, backlight, resolution, components manufacturers, design, operating system? Okay.

 

I'd not buy a Mac desktop, personally, but I'd buy a laptop.

 

EDIT: This one?

 

 

 

I've been looking at the 15 inch Macbook Pro with retina display.

 

Nope, the build quality is no better (aluminium case) and the screen on the Mac 13-inch is just standard. Macs don't have super special components. In fact Apple sources a lot of its components from Samsung itself including the A5 chip for the iPhone which is made in Texas. It's mostly off the shelf stuff.

 

The Mac obviously looks better, but if that's worth paying £300 more for a lower spec machine then good luck. I bought into it myself and came out unsatisfied with the experience.

 

The retina display on the 15-inch is definitely the best screen money can buy, but that requires a lot of money. £1,799 for 256GB of flash storage, a graphics card that you'd find on a laptop for half the price, 8GB of memory and the lower spec'd sandy bridge processor is fairly outrageous. It does look lovely though.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You're wrong on the components (In the Macbook, they're designed and engineered by Apple for the most part. That's how they manage to get them looking like they do and so thin), and you're wrong on the build quality (yours in some aluminium finish, not an aluminium unibody like the Macbook Pro).

 

I've not got a problem with you buying whatever suits you best, I do have a problem with people dismissing all the things which make the Macbook better. You can point out the difference between a 2.5ghz and a 2.6ghz processor, but you'll neglect to mention just how much better the operating system is at utilising that power. You don't mention the lack of thunderbolt and twice as many USB 3.0 ports.

 

For a 100 quid, some people want all the touches that make the difference between a Mac and Dell or Samsung or HP. They're fine, but I don't think you should be so dismissive as to call it 'vastly overpriced shit'.

 

As for the retina display version, the hardware engineering on these things is quite simply higher than any other computer ever built. Take a look at the engineering on this 'vastly overpriced shit':

 

Neff9scaCCI

[kelster]

You're wrong on the components (In the Macbook, they're designed and engineered by Apple for the most part. That's how they manage to get them looking like they do and so thin), and you're wrong on the build quality (yours in some aluminium finish, not an aluminium unibody like the Macbook Pro).

 

I've not got a problem with you buying whatever suits you best, I do have a problem with people dismissing all the things which make the Macbook better. You can point out the difference between a 2.5ghz and a 2.6ghz processor, but you'll neglect to mention just how much better the operating system is at utilising that power. You don't mention the lack of thunderbolt and twice as many USB 3.0 ports.

 

For a 100 quid, some people want all the touches that make the difference between a Mac and Dell or Samsung or HP. They're fine, but I don't think you should be so dismissive as to call it 'vastly overpriced shit'.

 

As for the retina display version, the hardware engineering on these things is quite simply higher than any other computer ever built. Take a look at the engineering on this 'vastly overpriced shit':

 

Neff9scaCCI

 

You're serious about the parts? Apart from the motherboard and the chassis (just like every other laptop manufacturer), it's all off the shelf. The DVD drive (rebranded super cause it slides in and out just like mine), the graphics cards, memory, processor, etc. It's all standard. There's nothing out of the ordinary there. In fact congratulations to Apple for producing a 13-inch laptop that is the size of every other 14-inch laptop due to a huge bezel. And heavier.

 

And it's not £100 quid is it? It's £300 for a lower sped'd laptop. Or the same price and £300 for a faster I/O that most people won't notice if you like. I'm sure if I compared with other laptops I could find even more glaring differences.

 

And 'vastly operpriced shit'? Now I know you obviously love your Apple and all that, but that is a misrepresentation of everything I have said. Why the need to make stuff up? Apple make excellent laptops, but they are still overpriced. You honestly think that a 1GB 650M graphics card (hey, it's made by NVIDIA and not Apple) is satisfactory on a £2,300 laptop? I could get a 3GB GTX 670M on a much cheaper laptop which would piss all over it. Check the price of both and tell me Apple aren't using an inferior graphics card for the price you pay. 8GB of memory (Samsung and Hynix making it thinner for you)? Really?

Edited August 19, 2012 by kelster

[kelster]

I forgot about Retina display. Just a trademark like superdrive. Based on technologies invented and licensed by LG/Sharp and manufactured by same and Samsung. You know, you'd think that Apple invented very few components and just had engineers who were great at putting it altogether. But I guess there is a myth to buy into.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I only got as far as this. The beginning of your post is drivel, which I'm ignoring only on a temporary basis, but this is bizarre.

 

but that is a misrepresentation of everything I have said. Why the need to make stuff up?

 

Make it up? It's what you said. You also threw in 'Apple are cunts'.

 

Both overpriced shit, and in the case of Apple vastly so.

 

So are you saying Apple's turning out vastly overpriced shit are aren't you?

[kelster]

I only got as far as this. The beginning of your post is drivel, which I'm ignoring only on a temporary basis, but this is bizarre.

 

No please, don't. Tell me all the components that Apple "designed and engineered" like you said. Don't be so coy as to ignore it on a temporary basis. I'd really like to know which out of the DVD drive, memory, graphics cards, display, etc that they design and engineer. I really am interested.

 

Please don't point to to another Apple video telling me how awesome Apple is as well.

 

And Apple are cunts for using non-standard fixing components.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

No, you fucking prat, you've said I'm making it up and it's right there. Are you saying that it's vastly overpriced shit or not?

 

Only then will I set out, in detail, why you're a total fucking spastic regarding this issue. Maybe you can name another five things which Apple use. Like 'cards'. What a fucking fake. Still, answer the question about what I've made up, then we'll move onto your bollocks.

[kelster]

No, you fucking prat, you've said I'm making it up and it's right there. Are you saying that it's vastly overpriced shit or not?

 

Only then will I set out, in detail, why you're a total fucking spastic regarding this issue. Maybe you can name another five things which Apple use. Like 'cards'. What fucking fake. Still, answer the question about what I've made up, then we'll move onto your bollocks.

 

Prat? Spastic. Is that how you talk with people in real life? Sorry, I'm not really into the keyboard warrior stuff. If you want to act the cunt then you can fuck off.

 

I did say Apple are cunts for the non-standard fixing. And I said overpriced shit as in overpriced for what you get. I did say later that they make excellent laptops.

 

Does it really wind you up this much when people have a go at Apple? I mean, it's not even a major pop, just overpriced. And you go off like you're wanking with an orange in your mouth. It's not even if I am anti-Apple. I have two Macbooks, an iMac, iPad and an iPod. I have a valid critisism about price vs component quality.

 

Now, the components. Apart from said motherboard and chassis which I mentioned that they do like every other laptop manufacturer.

[kelster]

Sorry, I forgot the five other things. Wouldn't want to be rude. So that's five other components apart from graphics card, DVD drive, screen, processor, hard drive.... In fact pretty much everything that Apple headlines when quoting the machines specification?

 

Well you seemed proud of Intel's Thunderbolt.

Sound card? I doubt that is made by Apple.

Maybe they invented/engineered iSight (aka webcam)?

802.11n wireless? Nah.

Backlit keyboards are everywhere.

Are their batteries self-designed?

 

I got it. FireWire. Woooooooo.

 

Edit: Magsafe. I'm on a roll.

[Acid]

[kelster]

I think what sums you up pefectly is the statement that "I do have a problem with people dismissing all the things which make the Macbook better".

 

So if someone has a problem with an electronic consumer product, it's a problem? If you want you can have a go at everything I own. I have a Sharp telly, care to have a go? Work makes me use a Lenovo. Feel free if it makes you feel better. My missus even has a Toshiba laptop (chuckle). Write something nasty and I'll even show it to her.

 

A small go on price/component accessibilty has led you to getting all red in the face and going off on one with insults like spastic/prat. Now I know I was a bit harsh in calling Apple cunts and saying nasty words like shit, but honestly it was not aimed at you personally no matter how closely you identify. Do you really need/want me to justify everything I say against something? Let Apple take it on the chin and move on.

 

In the past people would use their energies to defend causes and the such like. Now it's people getting angry about huge corporations being subject to a little bit of critisism. Consumerism at its worse. Guess I am a little to blame for buying the stuff too. Be fucked if I am going to defend it too though.

 

Think I'll leave at that as it's all a bit mental.

Edited August 19, 2012 by kelster

[lifetime fan]

I've a 17" Samsung laptop that I can watch more porn on than the lot of you put together!

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Prat? Spastic. Is that how you talk with people in real life?

 

If you'd called me a liar, yes. I'd have called you a cunt.

 

Sorry, I'm not really into the keyboard warrior stuff. If you want to act the cunt then you can fuck off.

 

I just want to make clear that I think you're a total fucking fraud who doesn't have the first idea what he's talking about. If you want to pass that off as being a keyboard warrior, that's fine.

 

I did say Apple are cunts for the non-standard fixing. And I said overpriced shit as in overpriced for what you get.

 

But your offerings of 'what you get' are incredibly selective. You've names four of five things. That's not what makes it worth the price. If your comparison is as mindlessly simplistic as '2.5ghz vs 2.6ghz', then of course it's overpriced.

 

If your only criteria for buying a car is boot space, a BMW, on sale at £500, is vastly overpriced when you can go to the scrappy and get a barely running 1984 transit for 80 quid.

 

I did say later that they make excellent laptops.

 

Does it really wind you up this much when people have a go at Apple?

 

As I've told you a number of times, I don't give a fuck about Apple. What I do care about is you questioning why I have to make things up. What a shithouse thing to say when it's right there and you said it a few moments before. At least you've admitted it now.

 

If you're going to change your position from vastly 'overpriced shit' to 'excellent laptops', then I've got to question why you 'made it up' in the first place. Quite a remarkable transition in the space of a few hours.

 

Again, it's nothing to do with Apple; When iFixit, pretty much the leading site for tearing down products, said that 'the new MacBook Pro is built like a MacBook Air and an iPad in that everything is custom and designed for the thinnest possible end product.', it didn't mean in a good way, and I'm undecided.

 

Now, the components. Apart from said motherboard and chassis which I mentioned that they do like every other laptop manufacturer.

 

Actually, not every manufacturer does that, and you're glossing over incredibly important pieces of design here.

 

The body of a Macbook is machined from one solid slab of aluminium. When talking, as we were, about build quality; that's a pretty fucking big deal. When you consider we're comparing these to other laptops, with hastily rammed together pieces of plastic, with shitty coatings, it takes it from 'overpriced shit' to being in the realm of 'excellent laptop'.

 

People pay a premium for 'excellent' things, rather than poorly manufactured tat. It's all very well naming four or five components and comparing them, but you're missing out a plethora of other things. These are the subtleties you're missing. In fact, it goes further than that. The product design is as good as you'll find just about anywhere, in any sector.

 

Then there's the glass track-pad, which is meticulously well designed, too. It's not just a touch sensitive but of plastic with two plastic buttons jammed underneath.

 

Then there's the battery, which is totally custom, is glued into position. It's a one shot deal. That's not defending Apple, but it's 100% custom designed and built for their own needs.

 

The SSD is custom. As are fans, heatsinks, antennas, and all manner of other things.

 

So that's five other components apart from graphics card

 

They don't have graphics cards, you blithering buffoon, they work with Intel on chips they can use in a specific way on their logic boards.

 

DVD drive

 

The new Macbook doesn't even have a fucking DVD drive.

 

screen

 

You mean the screen they 'picked off the shelf'. Except, of course, they didn't. Do some fucking research.

 

processor

 

Yes, well done, they don't make their own processors.

 

hard drive

 

Wrong.

 

Well you seemed proud of Intel's Thunderbolt.

 

Who were the first to carry Thunderbolt in their products? Why? Okay, I'll tell you, because you'll only make up some bullshit. It was Apple, and it was because it was a collaborative effort between Intel and Apple. They've now passed their trademark onto Intel.

 

Despite Intel - a brilliant and innovative company in their own right - working hard on it, the truth is that 'Thunderbolt is based on the physical Mini DisplayPort connector developed by Apple.', and they worked together on it. They do that a lot, actually.

 

Sound card? I doubt that is made by Apple.

 

It doesn't have a sound card, it's a custom audio interface on their logic board, for which they write their own kexts to run it. You're starting to sound like you believe they nip down to radioshack and buy a load of bits, which they assemble and sell on. That'd be idiotic of you.

 

Maybe they invented/engineered iSight (aka webcam)?

 

Well, Apple clearly make the product which goes into their system, yeah. I think they were the first company to introduce cameras which were built-in to the display housing. If you read up on the history of the webcam, you'll see they were one of the first to offer such a delicious thing. It wasn't their design, but they were one of the first to offer it.

 

As for 'invented', I wouldn't want to fall into the trap of claiming they 'invented' everything. The technology sphere is far to broad for one company to invent everything. I'd never suggest that, and didn't. I said much of their components are custom. That's a totally different thing.

 

802.11n wireless? Nah.

 

Apple played a massive part in brining wireless networking to the market, with their 'airport' enabled iBook (G3, I think) being the first laptop to bring have it. You might remember Steve Jobs doing the hula-hoops trick around the laptop? Probably not, but they were there 'first and best'.

 

Again, not really the point, it's about the components. You're right on this one. They use a broadcom chip on a (really tiny) card, which also carries the broadcom bluetooth chip. Broadcom make the shit out of these chips, so there's no need to make them.

 

Backlit keyboards are everywhere.

 

So? I'm not saying nobody else has any of the same features. I'm saying many of the components are custom made. I'm saying it because it's true, not because I want to stick up for Apple.

 

There's some other chips used as part of Apple designed boards and components, too.

 

Are their batteries self-designed?

 

Yeah, they are actually. It's evident now that you don't actually know much about this stuff, but there was a massive deal over their batteries. They've researched the shit out of battery tech for iPads and Laptops. I'd give you a video about it, but you'd only make another sarcastic comment.

 

I think

 

Let me stop you there, I don't believe I've seen much of that at all.

 

what sums you up pefectly is the statement that "I do have a problem with people dismissing all the things which make the Macbook better".

 

So if someone has a problem with an electronic consumer product, it's a problem?

 

Erm, no. You see, you're going to have to give that another read. It's not the fact you've got a 'problem with and electronic consumer product' I have a problem with, I said it's the dismissing of what makes it better that I have a problem with.

 

I'll expand on this, as you seem unable to grasp it. I've a problem with ignorance. To oversimplify in the way you've done is utterly ignorant and it annoys me. It could have been about anything, it happened to be about Apple.

 

To make ludicrously shallow statements like "Apple says the battery lasts 7 hours to 6 for the Samsung. And that really is it" shows how utterly ignorant you are of what's different about what a company like Apple (or, for that matter, Bang & Olufsen, and others like them) does.

 

If you want you can have a go at everything I own. I have a Sharp telly, care to have a go? Work makes me use a Lenovo. Feel free if it makes you feel better. My missus even has a Toshiba laptop (chuckle). Write something nasty and I'll even show it to her.

 

Ah, yes, terrific. It illustrates just how poor your grasp is on what's being discussed here.

 

A small go on price/component accessibilty has led you to getting all red in the face and going off on one with insults like spastic/prat. Now I know I was a bit harsh in calling Apple cunts and saying nasty words like shit, but honestly it was not aimed at you personally no matter how closely you identify. Do you really need/want me to justify everything I say against something? Let Apple take it on the chin and move on.

 

In the past people would use their energies to defend causes and the such like. Now it's people getting angry about huge corporations being subject to a little bit of critisism. Consumerism at its worse. Guess I am a little to blame for buying the stuff too. Be fucked if I am going to defend it too though.

 

Oh dear, this is desperate stuff. I don't identify with Apple, I'm an anti-capitalist, anti-consumerist. It just so happens that I'm anti-ignorance. That, coupled with the allegation that I'm making things up, is what made me 'red in the face'.

 

BTW, there's much bigger and more important criticisms to throw at Apple, but I'd be shocked if you could grasp them.

 

Think I'll leave at that as it's all a bit mental.

 

Hmn.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I've a 17" Samsung laptop that I can watch more porn on than the lot of you put together!

 

Being the Apple sycophant and consumerist that I am, I have a broken Apple keyboard.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Oh, and to continue with this thread...

 

I'd still not recommend getting either, Robbie. You need to figure out what you'll e using it for most, and what you want from it, then go from there. If it's a pure gaming machine, you're going to get the best bang for your, erm, Euro, by building yourself a rig with Windows.

[kelster]

You obviously are a dick aren't you Hank. I'm not going to go through point by point c[/cause you're obviously a bit of a basket case, I'll just summarize

 

You're a bit selective. Examples: no DVD drive. Only on the 15-inch retina. Would you have pulled me up 6 months ago and said they didn't have then as they were deficient on MacBook Airs?

 

No graphics card? You're right in that there is no sepetate card and is the case with laptops, but its pretty laughable to say theyre really really special when its just a standard Intel/NVIDIA implementation you'll find on a lot of mid range laptops.

 

An implementation of Thunderbolt was first used by Sony. Apple worked with Intel to get the implementation they wanted. That's what tech companies do.

 

And the SSD is custom? It's just a Toshiba THNS on the Air and a Samsung on the retina. You just continually make stuff up.

 

and I think you protest a little much. For someone who doesn't care about Apple thats the longest windbag post I've ever seen. Even your opening post was a defense of Apple accusing someone else of talking shit when they gave an opinion. Mental.

 

All this from having a genuine gripe about batteries and screw heads.

[kelster]

Being the Apple sycophant and consumerist that I am, I have a broken Apple keyboard.

 

But you're looking at a new 15-inch retina Macbook at about £1800-£2000+ anyway!

 

Of all the bizarre claims you make, the one that you're anti-capatalist/consumerist is the strangest. Having a broken keyboard doesn't put you at the vanguard of the occupy movement. Unless you smashed it over the head of a banker.

 

You've brung up names like Bang & Oulfsen, BMW and claimed not to be a defender of Apple despite the fact that you most obviously are as I doubt you would have gone off on one if I had slightly dissed an Armani suit (you heard that they use a special type of threading that you can't reproduce when the button falls off. Cunts). Or is that just quality goods in general that you meant? I'm not sure which bandwagon the anti-consumerist are on these days.

 

I have the feeling most anti-capatalists couldn't really give a shit. Or maybe they do sit around all day arging the toss over who produces the best quality goods. But that's you being a proper fraud.

Edited August 20, 2012 by kelster

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm not going to go through point by point

 

Yeah, what a shock! There's a reason you won't actually address what's being said, of course. It's because you're utterly ignorant. Just like swinging wildly from 'vastly overpriced shit' to 'excellent laptops', you're starting to go from just 'assembles' them to 'oh, fuck, I best not reply to all of that because they do a shit load of manufacturing'.

 

But you're looking at a new 15-inch retina Macbook at about £1800-£2000+ anyway!

 

Yeah, I'm looking at several laptops for when I start a new job in the States. It'll be paid for by my employer, as I'll need a laptop to take from home to the campus.

 

Oh wait, forget that. It doesn't go along with your 'Apple fan' theory.

 

Of all the bizarre claims you make, the one that you're anti-capatalist/consumerist is the strangest. Having a broken keyboard doesn't put you at the vanguard of the occupy movement. Unless you smashed it over the head of a banker.

 

Being anti-capitalist doesn't mean you have to be as ignorant as you towards consumer products. Anti-consumerism doesn't mean you can't buy consumer products. Then again, if you're as ignorant about consumerism as you are about technology, I'd not expect you to understand it.

 

You've brung up names like Bang & Oulfsen, BMW and claimed not to be a defender of Apple despite the fact that you most obviously are as I doubt you would have gone off on one if I had slightly dissed an Armani suit (you heard that they use a special type of threading that you can't reproduce when the button falls off. Cunts). Or is that just quality goods in general that you meant? I'm not sure which bandwagon the anti-consumerist are on these days.

 

'Brung'. Fucking hell.

 

But if you'd called Armani suits 'shit', I'd have had the same problem. I don't give a fuck about Armani, either. The problem isn't the company, it's you.

 

I have the feeling most anti-capatalists couldn't really give a shit. Or maybe they do sit around all day arging the toss over who produces the best quality goods. But that's you being a proper fraud.

 

You ignorant little shithouse.

[Melchett]

Fuckin' techy nerds.

[Chairman Meow]

If you'd called me a liar, yes. I'd have called you a cunt.

 

 

 

I just want to make clear that I think you're a total fucking fraud who doesn't have the first idea what he's talking about. If you want to pass that off as being a keyboard warrior, that's fine.

 

 

 

But your offerings of 'what you get' are incredibly selective. You've names four of five things. That's not what makes it worth the price. If your comparison is as mindlessly simplistic as '2.5ghz vs 2.6ghz', then of course it's overpriced.

 

If your only criteria for buying a car is boot space, a BMW, on sale at £500, is vastly overpriced when you can go to the scrappy and get a barely running 1984 transit for 80 quid.

 

 

 

As I've told you a number of times, I don't give a fuck about Apple. What I do care about is you questioning why I have to make things up. What a shithouse thing to say when it's right there and you said it a few moments before. At least you've admitted it now.

 

If you're going to change your position from vastly 'overpriced shit' to 'excellent laptops', then I've got to question why you 'made it up' in the first place. Quite a remarkable transition in the space of a few hours.

 

Again, it's nothing to do with Apple; When iFixit, pretty much the leading site for tearing down products, said that 'the new MacBook Pro is built like a MacBook Air and an iPad in that everything is custom and designed for the thinnest possible end product.', it didn't mean in a good way, and I'm undecided.

 

 

 

Actually, not every manufacturer does that, and you're glossing over incredibly important pieces of design here.

 

The body of a Macbook is machined from one solid slab of aluminium. When talking, as we were, about build quality; that's a pretty fucking big deal. When you consider we're comparing these to other laptops, with hastily rammed together pieces of plastic, with shitty coatings, it takes it from 'overpriced shit' to being in the realm of 'excellent laptop'.

 

People pay a premium for 'excellent' things, rather than poorly manufactured tat. It's all very well naming four or five components and comparing them, but you're missing out a plethora of other things. These are the subtleties you're missing. In fact, it goes further than that. The product design is as good as you'll find just about anywhere, in any sector.

 

Then there's the glass track-pad, which is meticulously well designed, too. It's not just a touch sensitive but of plastic with two plastic buttons jammed underneath.

 

Then there's the battery, which is totally custom, is glued into position. It's a one shot deal. That's not defending Apple, but it's 100% custom designed and built for their own needs.

 

The SSD is custom. As are fans, heatsinks, antennas, and all manner of other things.

 

 

 

They don't have graphics cards, you blithering buffoon, they work with Intel on chips they can use in a specific way on their logic boards.

 

 

 

The new Macbook doesn't even have a fucking DVD drive.

 

 

 

You mean the screen they 'picked off the shelf'. Except, of course, they didn't. Do some fucking research.

 

 

 

Yes, well done, they don't make their own processors.

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

 

 

Who were the first to carry Thunderbolt in their products? Why? Okay, I'll tell you, because you'll only make up some bullshit. It was Apple, and it was because it was a collaborative effort between Intel and Apple. They've now passed their trademark onto Intel.

 

Despite Intel - a brilliant and innovative company in their own right - working hard on it, the truth is that 'Thunderbolt is based on the physical Mini DisplayPort connector developed by Apple.', and they worked together on it. They do that a lot, actually.

 

 

 

It doesn't have a sound card, it's a custom audio interface on their logic board, for which they write their own kexts to run it. You're starting to sound like you believe they nip down to radioshack and buy a load of bits, which they assemble and sell on. That'd be idiotic of you.

 

 

 

Well, Apple clearly make the product which goes into their system, yeah. I think they were the first company to introduce cameras which were built-in to the display housing. If you read up on the history of the webcam, you'll see they were one of the first to offer such a delicious thing. It wasn't their design, but they were one of the first to offer it.

 

As for 'invented', I wouldn't want to fall into the trap of claiming they 'invented' everything. The technology sphere is far to broad for one company to invent everything. I'd never suggest that, and didn't. I said much of their components are custom. That's a totally different thing.

 

 

 

Apple played a massive part in brining wireless networking to the market, with their 'airport' enabled iBook (G3, I think) being the first laptop to bring have it. You might remember Steve Jobs doing the hula-hoops trick around the laptop? Probably not, but they were there 'first and best'.

 

Again, not really the point, it's about the components. You're right on this one. They use a broadcom chip on a (really tiny) card, which also carries the broadcom bluetooth chip. Broadcom make the shit out of these chips, so there's no need to make them.

 

 

 

So? I'm not saying nobody else has any of the same features. I'm saying many of the components are custom made. I'm saying it because it's true, not because I want to stick up for Apple.

 

There's some other chips used as part of Apple designed boards and components, too.

 

 

 

Yeah, they are actually. It's evident now that you don't actually know much about this stuff, but there was a massive deal over their batteries. They've researched the shit out of battery tech for iPads and Laptops. I'd give you a video about it, but you'd only make another sarcastic comment.

 

 

 

Let me stop you there, I don't believe I've seen much of that at all.

 

 

 

Erm, no. You see, you're going to have to give that another read. It's not the fact you've got a 'problem with and electronic consumer product' I have a problem with, I said it's the dismissing of what makes it better that I have a problem with.

 

I'll expand on this, as you seem unable to grasp it. I've a problem with ignorance. To oversimplify in the way you've done is utterly ignorant and it annoys me. It could have been about anything, it happened to be about Apple.

 

To make ludicrously shallow statements like "Apple says the battery lasts 7 hours to 6 for the Samsung. And that really is it" shows how utterly ignorant you are of what's different about what a company like Apple (or, for that matter, Bang & Olufsen, and others like them) does.

 

 

 

Ah, yes, terrific. It illustrates just how poor your grasp is on what's being discussed here.

 

 

 

Oh dear, this is desperate stuff. I don't identify with Apple, I'm an anti-capitalist, anti-consumerist. It just so happens that I'm anti-ignorance. That, coupled with the allegation that I'm making things up, is what made me 'red in the face'.

 

BTW, there's much bigger and more important criticisms to throw at Apple, but I'd be shocked if you could grasp them.

 

 

 

Hmn.

 

What complete and utter bollocks.

 

 

 

 

With the price of scrap metal the way it is now there is no way you can pick up a Transit at the scrappy for £80. There's at least £300 in metal weight alone. Plus very few 1984 ones around as they rotted like fuck. I have a 1982 ex Ford Motorsport one with a V6 in it and it's a nightmare trying to get bits never mind find a complete one as scrap.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Best post in this thread by a really long way!

[Acid]

The TNF has become the FF

[md1892]

I'm going to wade in here, and state in my opinion, pound for pound, component by component you will generally pay more for apple than any other (even Alienware) bit of kit.

Yes the build quality is good, and they look pretty, and they work on RISC technology (looks of small instructions quickly, opposed to more complex instructions a little slower).

You boys are beginning to embarrass yourselves I'm afraid.