Jamie Carragher? The end is nigh

[ritchie]

There's still time. I believe we will sign a centre back this summer. Whether he will be able to displace Carra from the team, we will find out, but the amount of stick he gets is out of order when he's still our best defender.

 

People can be disrespectful in their 'fuck him off' type comments, but i'm not giving anyone stick, I just want the team to be as competitive as possible.

 

Carra turns 34 next season and is naturally not at the level he was 4 or 5 years ago when he was at his peak, so he shouldn't be our best defender. I just think that rather than accept Carragher should be in the team every week - be it on merit, loyalty or reputation - we should be striving to improve the defence. Hopefully we will get another CB in, but of what quality remains to be seen. We replaced Hyypia with Kyrgiakos.

[BenR_]

Will he be able to displace Carra from the team doesn't seem to depend on how that new CB plays.

 

Can anyone see Carra being dropped this season when fit? I just can't see it, which is probably the point ritchie is making, we're not ruthless enough, I believe we've seen it with players like Kuyt and Lucas as well. They give their all so their place is guaranteed regardless of how well they play.

It's not for nothing that we've got loads of fans talking about bringing in a new CB to partner Carra. It's a given that he'll play, and I'm not sure that's good for anyone.

[zigackly]

People can be disrespectful in their 'fuck him off' type comments, but i'm not giving anyone stick, I just want the team to be as competitive as possible.

 

Carra turns 34 next season and is naturally not at the level he was 4 or 5 years ago when he was at his peak, so he shouldn't be our best defender. I just think that rather than accept Carragher should be in the team every week, we should be striving to improve the defence. Hopefully we will get another CB in, but of what quality remains to be seen. We replaced Hyypia with Kyrgiakos.

 

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, except to say that I think we have a squad depth problem to address as well as quality. Seems to me that this season we are looking to fix the squad, which means we may not buy someone who can go straight in to replace Carra, but someone who will compete with all our centre backs. We will need to buy a top quality centre back at some point if we want a title tilt, but I don't believe we will see it this summer, although I would be delighted to be wrong. I'd rather never see the Greek play again to be honest. He's a trier, but he's not good enough.

[Breckside]

Can't believe people think Jamie gets his place in the team just because he 'gives his all'. For me Jamie is still up there with the best centre backs in Europe. Ferguson and Wenger would have Jamie in their teams week in week out - no question.

 

When Jamie is allowed to concentrate on his own game then he reigns supreme, it's only when he has people around him who he can't trust that the odd mistake creeps in and 99% of the time it's because he's anticipating somebody else making a fuck up. Until we have two young centre backs of Hyppia/Carras standard then for the immediate future it's Jamie plus A.N. Other (preferably Agger - when fit).

 

No sentimentality, just my point of view, as like many I believe a centre back should be on our shopping list this summer unless Kenny thinks that Kelly can make the step up this season.

[Lee909]

I don't quite agree with him being one of the best in Europe anymore, he is not far off it but his best form was a couple of years ago, he still gets in the team on merit though.

True leader of the team and a fucking legend for everything he has done for the club.

[ChrisM]

Ferguson and Wenger would have Jamie in their teams week in week out - no question.

 

No they wouldn't.

[stringvest]

Carra is not a bad man but he is a symbol of the mediocrity our club has grown to accept over many years of underachieving - the acceptance of which leads us down the road of becoming the next Newcastle/Spurs/Aston Villa etc. I'm gonna come clean - I dont like the guy because of that - thats my problem and not his. I do think he overplays the Mr Liverpool role and he should keep his mouth shut rather than playing to the all too gullible gallery which he so often does. The guy would not have played more than a handful of games under Bob Paisley. Someone said it earlier - we need defenders who can defend on their own merits and dont need the team set up to combat their limitations.

 

I think you're speaking out of ignorance. Carragher does not play the Mr Liverpool role. He has said on more than one occasion that he would have no qualms about going elsewhere to play his football if he wasn't getting a game at Liverpool. He's the least sentimental player in that respect. Compare and contrast with the badge kissers.

 

And as for Carragher being a symbol of mediocrity, fuck me, if that's the road you want to go down, at easy highlight players who will provide a much more compelling case. There isn't exactly a shortage of them.

 

Jamie's on the wane, but I honestly believe he's in the team on merit. If we can find anyone better to replace him, then we should. Right now, we don't have anyone better than him.

[Sugar Ape]

No they wouldn't.

 

He is easily good enough to get in Arsenals first team.

 

Ferguson wouldn't have him, but considering he has Vidic and Ferdinand as well as two of the best young Centre backs in England then that is no slight on Jamie.

[Hooch]

Well said Stringvest.

[zigackly]

I think you're speaking out of ignorance. Carragher does not play the Mr Liverpool role. He has said on more than one occasion that he would have no qualms about going elsewhere to play his football if he wasn't getting a game at Liverpool. He's the least sentimental player in that respect. Compare and contrast with the badge kissers.

 

And as for Carragher being a symbol of mediocrity, fuck me, if that's the road you want to go down, at easy highlight players who will provide a much more compelling case. There isn't exactly a shortage of them.

 

Jamie's on the wane, but I honestly believe he's in the team on merit. If we can find anyone better to replace him, then we should. Right now, we don't have anyone better than him.

 

I don't think it's ignorance. Some people have a definite agenda against the lad.

[Sugar Ape]

I don't think it's ignorance. Some people have a definite agenda against the lad.

 

Definitely. People who think his best days are over and critique him constructively, no problem with that at all. But, with some, it goes a bit further than that.

[WaltonRed]

Stringvest is spot on

[Soleilrouge]

I don't think it's ignorance. Some people have a definite agenda against the lad.

 

No agenda. An honestly held opinion and an ability to smell bullshit from a distance. Jamie ranks no higher than Stephan Henchoz in our list of top defenders.

[zigackly]

No agenda. An honestly held opinion and an ability to smell bullshit from a distance. Jamie ranks no higher than Stephan Henchoz in our list of top defenders.

 

Even if I were prepared to accept that you are right, which I'm not, why are most of your posts focussed on slating him when far worse players are regularly seen in a red shirt?

[ChrisM]

He is easily good enough to get in Arsenals first team.

 

I agree, but that's not what I was responding too.

 

Ferguson and Wenger would have Jamie in their teams week in week out - no question.

 

Obviously Ferguson wouldn't, for the reasons you mentioned, and neither would Wenger, due to playing style. Can you imagine the look on Wenger's face as Carra launched another 'long range pass' down the pitch? Arsenal would benefit greatly from a Carra 'type' player to give them more steel and grit, but of course Wenger will stick to his myopic principles and would rather play someone who can pass the ball 5 yards but can't tackle.

[Sugar Ape]

I agree, but that's not what I was responding too.

 

 

 

Obviously Ferguson wouldn't, for the reasons you mentioned, and neither would Wenger, due to playing style. Can you imagine the look on Wenger's face as Carra launched another 'long range pass' down the pitch? Arsenal would benefit greatly from a Carra 'type' player to give them more steel and grit, but of course Wenger will stick to his myopic principles and would rather play someone who can pass the ball 5 yards but can't tackle.

 

I think even Wenger may be changing his stance on that if the rumours he is going for Jagielka are true, who is very Carra-light for me.

[ritchie]

I think even Wenger may be changing his stance on that if the rumours he is going for Jagielka are true, who is very Carra-light for me.

 

It's just a desperation for a decent CB now with Wenger. They've got Vermalen and the rest are hopeless. He even brought Sol Campbell back the other year, so Carragher at the moment would be worth a place alongside Vermalen. But Jagielka is coming up to his peak, whereas Carragher is in his twilight years and I doubt Wenger would want Carragher. I'd actually say us finishing above Arsenal depends on which of us and them strengthens their defence better.

 

If you look at United they've got Ferdinand, Vidic, Smalling, Jones and Evans. Evans isn't up to much but Ferdinand and Vidic are top drawer (although Ferdinand is coming to the end now and can't play every week) and Smalling and Jones are two excellent prospects. We were willing to pay the best part of £20m ourselves for Jones. So where would Carragher fit into that?

 

Look at Chelsea where they've got Terry, Alex, Luiz and Ivanovic. Carragher wouldn't get in ahead of any of them.

 

You look at Spurs with King, Dawson and Gallas as well as Kaboul and Bassong - so I doubt Carragher would be near the Spurs side.

 

To say he'd still get into the top European teams is a bit misleading.

[Sugar Ape]

It's just a desperation for a decent CB now with Wenger. They've got Vermalen and the rest are hopeless. He even brought Sol Campbell back the other year, so Carragher at the moment would be worth a place alongside Vermalen. But Jagielka is coming up to his peak, whereas Carragher is in his twilight years and I doubt Wenger would want Carragher. I'd actually say us finishing above Arsenal depends on which of us and them strengthens their defence better.

 

If you look at United they've got Ferdinand, Vidic, Smalling, Jones and Evans. Evans isn't up to much but Ferdinand and Vidic are top drawer (although Ferdinand is coming to the end now and can't play every week) and Smalling and Jones are two excellent prospects. We were willing to pay the best part of £20m ourselves for Jones. So where would Carragher fit into that?

 

Look at Chelsea where they've got Terry, Alex, Luiz and Ivanovic. Carragher wouldn't get in ahead of any of them.

 

You look at Spurs with King, Dawson and Gallas as well as Kaboul and Bassong - so I doubt Carragher would be near the Spurs side.

 

To say he'd still get into the top European teams is a bit misleading.

 

I'd just like to point out I never said he would get into the top European teams. Or chelsea. And I also said he wouldn't get into the Mancs side.

 

I think he would get into the Arsenal team and I think he is good enough to get into the spurs team. I'd have him ahead of Bassong and Kaboul certainly. I'd also have him in before Gallas and King as well personally.

[Jairzinho]

Wenger would never have Carragher in his side, but he's probably exactly the sort of player they need.

[AussieRed]

No agenda. An honestly held opinion and an ability to smell bullshit from a distance. Jamie ranks no higher than Stephan Henchoz in our list of top defenders.

 

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

Agree entirely.

[Antynwa]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

Agree entirely.

 

[YOUTUBE]2Z4m4lnjxkY[/YOUTUBE]

[Antynwa]

I'm going to treat posts like the above with the contempt it deserves.

 

He's that shit, he's 2nd in our all time appearances.

[Gym Beglin]

United have basically bought jones to eventually replace rio. That's the difference between us.

[zigackly]

Window closes on 1st September last time I checked.

[Sloan]

No agenda. An honestly held opinion and an ability to smell bullshit from a distance. Jamie ranks no higher than Stephan Henchoz in our list of top defenders.

Ridiculous. Henchoz was quite good but Carra has been much, much better.