Gordons Blown it.

[Section_31]

Saw this on the Beebs election twitter:

 

Gordon Brown biographer Tom Bower tells Sky News the PM "doesn't understand English working-class fears" and has always thought "they are bigots".

 

I think that's spot on.

 

Looks like more character assassination to me. Was watching on the news how they had a camera in a radio studio (!) ready for his reaction, the presenter goes "ooh I've got the tape we can listen to what you said." It's unreal, just a fundamental lack of respect, I can't even imagine a US presidential candidate being ambushed the way he is so regularly.

 

One wonders how Thatcher, or Kinnock, or Major would have faired under these 'body language' studies or a media comprised entirely of sniveling agenda-chasing rats. It looks like in the post-Blair era, we're always going to have our leaders chosen for us - and it will depend on how well they can dance.

 

Fuck it, Lionel Blair for PM.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

One wonders how Thatcher, or Kinnock, or Major would have faired under these 'body language' studies

 

I reckon Kinnock would have done alrrriiiiiggghhtttt.

 

Ayway, I'm off to bed.

[Spy Bee]

Fucking hell, look at the terminology and target she aimed it at. It's endemic of people her age to use that sort of style to target a group of people. Would she have been called a bigot if she said 'I'm concerned with the numbers of workers coming to this country, are you concerned by it and what ramifications might it have for British nationals?'. She didn't say that, she talked of a specific type of people and accused them of 'flocking'.

 

 

As Gordon Brown might say "Get real!".

 

You're scraping the barrel now mate. If you want to analyse everything that anybody ever says then you will find fault in it. It was a heat of the moment comment made using terminology that the woman has probably used all her life and that people living in the areas around her probably use too.

 

He's the one that has been trained to offer concise and appealing terminology in his responses, she's just an average Josephine and shouldn't be judged in the same way that the Prime Minister of this country should.

 

As for the "accused them of flocking" comment... seriously?

[Spy Bee]

Looks like more character assassination to me. Was watching on the news how they had a camera in a radio studio (!) ready for his reaction, the presenter goes "ooh I've got the tape we can listen to what you said." It's unreal, just a fundamental lack of respect, I can't even imagine a US presidential candidate being ambushed the way he is so regularly.

 

One wonders how Thatcher, or Kinnock, or Major would have faired under these 'body language' studies or a media comprised entirely of sniveling agenda-chasing rats. It looks like in the post-Blair era, we're always going to have our leaders chosen for us - and it will depend on how well they can dance.

 

Fuck it, Lionel Blair for PM.

 

All true. Stop being so right!

[liver bird]

The woman wasn't a racist, I don't even think she is a bigot, her biggest failing is that she is not up to date with the latest PC language and so expressed herself badly in PC speak....I don't know Rochdale well but I assuming the reason she mentioned east europeans in particular is because there is an influx into that area not because she was singling them out for no other reason than she is a nazi.

 

Contempt of her is contempt for working class people who have voted and stuck by the Labour party all their lifes, if your going to call people like her racist where do you think you'll drive them too? she looked genuinely shocked and upset when she found out she had been called a bigot, felt sorry for her to be honest, people like her have been the backbone to our country, they have worked all their lifes, saved and scrimped by to allow a situation where this country is rich enough to take in immigrants and what do they get in return...being a called a bigot and a racist, nice.

[Kevin D]

What method was used to calculate that there are 900,000 illegal immigrants? Presumably they'd be stopped if we knew how they were getting here or where they lived, similarly we're oblivious to whether or not they're still in the country and haven't decided that the shit weather, shocking TV and below average women were not for them.

 

Wow! A politician with contempt for a member of the voting public? Who'd have thought it? Also, who gives a fuck?

 

Base your vote on which party you think manage and protect the capitalist system best. It will be a shocking indictment of the political state of our country, and also of the voting public, if this piece of fucking nonsense plays a major role in deciding the outcome of the election.

 

Agreed. I don't think it will, though. I fully expect Brown to dominate the economic debate tomorrow, in front of about 15m people, which will have a greater bearing on the election and put this "issue" to bed.

 

There it is again, "old lady". Firstly, she is 65, not some doddering 80-year old. I am not sure why someone who is 65 should be given leeway on what she says. She knew exactly who the target of her ire was.

 

Like I said, immigration is an issue, but that doesn't mean you start singling out specific targets. Especially ones who have as much right to be here as British people do in Europe. And I am not quite sure how I am being hypocritical. Supporting common decency in not joining in the "it's the fault of them foreigners culture" doesn't feel hypocritical.

 

And how does immigration puts a strain on our public services? Are you honestly trying to tell me that all the EU citizens in this country don't bring a net economic benefit? I'm sure there are those that d take advantage, but that wouldn't make them unique in any way.

 

Was on the verge of a Rambo-esque moment there untill I remembered which forum I was on.

[cochcaer]

One wonders how Thatcher, or Kinnock, or Major would have faired under these 'body language' studies or a media comprised entirely of sniveling agenda-chasing rats. It looks like in the post-Blair era, we're always going to have our leaders chosen for us - and it will depend on how well they can dance.

 

Fuck it, Lionel Blair for PM.

 

Blair apparently employed a personal sound technician after Major was caught out branding fellow ministers 'bastards' on tape.

 

There's never been this respect you speak of, I humorously recall John Sargeant pushing Maggie's pitbull Ingram to one side during the leadership challenge.

[King Emlyn]

The woman wasn't a racist, I don't even think she is a bigot, her biggest failing is that she is not up to date with the latest PC language and so expressed herself badly in PC speak....I don't know Rochdale well but I assuming the reason she mentioned east europeans in particular is because there is an influx into that area not because she was singling them out for no other reason than she is a nazi.

 

Contempt of her is contempt for working class people who have voted and stuck by the Labour party all their lifes, if your going to call people like her racist where do you think you'll drive them too? she looked genuinely shocked and upset when she found out she had been called a bigot, felt sorry for her to be honest, people like her have been the backbone to our country, they have worked all their lifes, saved and scrimped by to allow a situation where this country is rich enough to take in immigrants and what do they get in return...being a called a bigot and a racist, nice.

Yeah, pretty much how i see it.

[George Costanza]

As far as i'm concerned we should adopt Australia's policy of immigration. ie fuck off your not welcome. Its not a nationality or race issue, its simply just the fact the country is vastly over polulated in the first place. The last thing we need is more people flooding in. Immigration over the next few years should be 0. There is no room at the inn.....

[Red Mist]

Old woman - "What was it I said that was bigoted? All I asked about was national debt".

 

Obviously she had forgotten the bit where she sounded like a paid up BNP member moaning about Eastern Europeans.

Why, because she queried the number of eastern Europeans that have poured into the country in the past 5 years? That's more than a million eastern Europeans into the UK in 5 years. How is it bigoted to comment on this alarming trend?

No wonder the BNP are gaining such support when ordinary people can't even discuss immigration for fear of being branded racist.

[liver bird]

Why, because she queried the number of eastern Europeans that have poured into the country in the past 5 years? That's more than a million eastern Europeans into the UK in 5 years. How is it bigoted to comment on this alarming trend?

No wonder the BNP are gaining such support when ordinary people can't even discuss immigration for fear of being branded racist.

 

The other trouble is that the working class (making a generalisation here)don't talk about immigration in 'acceptable' terms, mind you they don't go to endless seminars on political correctness either and are then often misinterpretated as 'racist' when they aren't! someone earlier proved the point when someone said it was the terminology they had a problem with

 

saying she should say something like this

 

'I'm concerned with the numbers of workers coming to this country, are you concerned by it and what ramifications might it have for British nationals?'

 

come on now lets get real! I don't think she is going to couch it quite in those terms do you?

 

Her problem was that she was too straight and didn't go around the houses, she named the immigrant group that was particularly prevalent in her area...this apparently isn't allowed, not sure who decreed this though.

 

I'm not saying that some people aren't racist but the biggest crime here to me seems to be that she wasn't using the right terminology but that doesn't mean she needs to be ignored, sneered at, slagged off and treated with contempt either.

[Red Mist]

The other trouble is that the working class (making a generalisation here)don't talk about immigration in 'acceptable' terms, mind you they don't go to endless seminars on political correctness either and are then often misinterpretated as 'racist' when they aren't! someone earlier proved the point when someone said it was the terminology they had a problem with

 

saying she should say something like this

 

'I'm concerned with the numbers of workers coming to this country, are you concerned by it and what ramifications might it have for British nationals?'

 

come on now lets get real! I don't think she is going to couch it quite in those terms do you?

 

Her problem was that she was too straight and didn't go around the houses, she named the immigrant group that was particularly prevalent in her area...this apparently isn't allowed, not sure who decreed this though.

 

I'm not saying that some people aren't racist but the biggest crime here to me seems to be that she wasn't using the right terminology but that doesn't mean she needs to be ignored, sneered at, slagged off and treated with contempt either.

Agreed. But Labour has long forgotten about the ordinary working class who helped propel them to power in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that their leader is so dismissive of this woman, and the many millions like her.

[dennis tooth]

He's a Scottish former socialist but doesn't understand working class fears? Tom Bower can cuck my sock.

 

Oh you know him better of course!

[dennis tooth]

Fucking hell, look at the terminology and target she aimed it at. It's endemic of people her age to use that sort of style to target a group of people. Would she have been called a bigot if she said 'I'm concerned with the numbers of workers coming to this country, are you concerned by it and what ramifications might it have for British nationals?'. She didn't say that, she talked of a specific type of people and accused them of 'flocking'.

 

This isn't about having a stance on immigration, most of us have that, it is about what she said and how she said it. To just brush it off as having an opinion on immigration doesn't really tell an accurate story.

 

Now he's got it in for the old people.

[dennis tooth]

I reckon Kinnock would have done alrrriiiiiggghhtttt.

 

Ayway, I'm off to bed.

 

What, you actually sleep?

[dennis tooth]

Blair apparently employed a personal sound technician after Major was caught out branding fellow ministers 'bastards' on tape.

 

There's never been this respect you speak of, I humorously recall John Sargeant pushing Maggie's pitbull Ingram to one side during the leadership challenge.

 

Was it the ministry of sound?

[dennis tooth]

As far as i'm concerned we should adopt Australia's policy of immigration. ie fuck off your not welcome. Its not a nationality or race issue, its simply just the fact the country is vastly over polulated in the first place. The last thing we need is more people flooding in. Immigration over the next few years should be 0. There is no room at the inn.....

 

Theres loads of people from the UK living in Australia, what are you talking about?

[Stu Monty]

Fucking hell, I can't believe some of the stuff I read on here at times. Malaria is a problem in this country? What?

 

Er, who said in this country? I think that millions of people dying is a bad thing and it doesn't change my thinking one bit if they don't live next door, and do live somewhere else in the world. It's more important, end of story. If you got the choice to sort out immigration or sort out Malaria (the third biggest kliller in the world) you'd have to be a some sort of planet-shatteringly huge cunt to choose the first. Some of us see people as people and aren't that bothered which landmass they popped out of a cunt on.

 

 

The woman wasn't a racist, I don't even think she is a bigot, her biggest failing is that she is not up to date with the latest PC language and so expressed herself badly in PC speak....I don't know Rochdale well but I assuming the reason she mentioned east europeans in particular is because there is an influx into that area not because she was singling them out for no other reason than she is a nazi.

 

Contempt of her is contempt for working class people who have voted and stuck by the Labour party all their lifes, if your going to call people like her racist where do you think you'll drive them too? she looked genuinely shocked and upset when she found out she had been called a bigot, felt sorry for her to be honest, people like her have been the backbone to our country, they have worked all their lifes, saved and scrimped by to allow a situation where this country is rich enough to take in immigrants and what do they get in return...being a called a bigot and a racist, nice.

 

Lots of labour voters are racist. Lots of people are racist. Take a look at the best selling newspapers; the majority of 'paper buys love a bit of racism. You haven't got a fucking clue what she's been like all her life either. She might have been a workshy kiddy-fiddler for all you know so can we knock all this shit about her being salt of the earth on the head? She may well not be a bigot, if I had to go either way I'd take a chance that she is because of the language she used. Either way it's irrelevant. Brown thought she was a bigot, is that the issue here? That he was wrong? What if she was a bigot? Does that make him right and the attack-dogs are called off?

 

It's all a load of fucking nonsense. It's the media making the news not reporting on it, as usual.

 

As far as i'm concerned we should adopt Australia's policy of immigration. ie fuck off your not welcome. Its not a nationality or race issue, its simply just the fact the country is vastly over polulated in the first place. The last thing we need is more people flooding in. Immigration over the next few years should be 0. There is no room at the inn.....

 

The country isn't over populated at all. This country has plenty of resource to house millions more people in modern, green housing. Maybe you should think why that money isn't spent on that and why it all seems to be in the hands of very few people? If you're looking at the puzzle the one way all the time then you're going to get baldy shouting at you, you won't get the crystal and you'll be locked in the room.

 

Oh you know him better of course!

 

Dennis, stop trolling. Let it be.

[liver bird]

 

 

Lots of labour voters are racist. Lots of people are racist. Take a look at the best selling newspapers; the majority of 'paper buys love a bit of racism. You haven't got a fucking clue what she's been like all her life either. She might have been a workshy kiddy-fiddler for all you know so can we knock all this shit about her being salt of the earth on the head? She may well not be a bigot, if I had to go either way I'd take a chance that she is because of the language she used. Either way it's irrelevant. Brown thought she was a bigot, is that the issue here? That he was wrong? What if she was a bigot? Does that make him right and the attack-dogs are called off?

 

It's all a load of fucking nonsense. It's the media making the news not reporting on it, as usual.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Heres a bit about her life from that right wing rag called the Guardian

 

Gillian Duffy: a lifelong Labour voter who may bring down the PM | Politics | The Guardian

 

Worked with disabled kids (not sure if thats the right term to use, god help me if it isn't, I'll be accused of all sorts)....only the white ones though.

[Stu Monty]

Heres a bit about her life from that right wing rag called the Guardian

 

Gillian Duffy: a lifelong Labour voter who may bring down the PM | Politics | The Guardian

 

Worked with disabled kids (not sure if thats the right term to use, god help me if it isn't, I'll be accused of all sorts)....only the white ones though.

 

Like I say, not really relevant. If she does touch kids then she's not going to tell the Guardian is she? Are disabled helpers never bigots? Whether she's a cunt or and angel doesn't concern me really. She said some stuff about immigration that was open to be judged and Brown judged it, it really isn't news. We all think that some people are cunts, rightly or wrongly, we just don't have a microphone on us when we say it.

 

And I'm only three paragraphs in and that story is talking bollocks. "She turned on the television" - no, she was chased down the street by journalists who got her to come back and watch it at their van. Oh, and they've changed what she actually said too. Like I say, the media making the news instead of reporting on it. Cunts. And bear in mind, I have the Guardian and the Independent as my homepages to get a quick glance at the news in the morning, so it's not like I'm singling anyone out here, pretty much the lot of them can't be arsed upping their game.

 

This is a bollocks puppet show to distract the stupid proles. And, for the record, I'm not voting Labour and don't particulalrly like Brown.

[Red Mist]

As far as i'm concerned we should adopt Australia's policy of immigration. ie fuck off your not welcome. Its not a nationality or race issue, its simply just the fact the country is vastly over polulated in the first place. The last thing we need is more people flooding in. Immigration over the next few years should be 0. There is no room at the inn.....

That's too extreme even for my liking. It wouldn't be quite as bad if the immigrants can be dispersed evenly around the country. Trouble is the majority tend to head towards London and the SE, which IS totally overcrowded.

We'll continue to need immigrants to fill certain job vacancies but really that's the only reason we should be allowing them in here. As it is we have thousands of EU migrants who are here just because they can be. We don't need so many as much of the jobs they do tend to be menial work which a Brit can do, and would be willing to do.

The fact that EU workers can come along and just send their kids to state schools, claim income support and child support before putting anything into the system really annoys me, to the point where I wish we would just fuck the EU off.

This is why a better immigration policy is needed, the current one is alienating ordinary working folk, especially those who have seen their towns and cities change almost beyond recognition and suffered due to the hugely increased burden on public services. Services which working Brits have contributed towards for years but find themselves struggling against those newcomers who have contributed little or nothing in comparison.

[Jose Jones]

You’ve got to feel sorry for the old girl there, she’ll be getting hounded to death by the press.

It’d be interesting if the whole hoo hah led to an intelligent conversation about Europe and immigration but it won’t because both the Tories and Labour don’t want to talk about it.

[Ben]

The country isn't over populated at all. This country has plenty of resource to house millions more people in modern, green housing. Maybe you should think why that money isn't spent on that and why it all seems to be in the hands of very few people? If you're looking at the puzzle the one way all the time then you're going to get baldy shouting at you, you won't get the crystal and you'll be locked in the room.

 

I very rarely disagree with what you say, but on this one I do, the country is overpopulated, has been for a while and whilst we may potentially have the resources to sustain millions more people we currently don't, land prices are too high and sustainability is only possible through mass importing of basic goods.

 

I am concerned by immigration in the UK not only the scale but also the lack of control, we need certain types of workers in certain areas, and these gaps in employment can be filled by migrant workers. What we don't need is thousands of unskilled workers going to Britain when there aren't any jobs for the people already living there.

Regards little old lady vs PM.

The most disturbing thing about this altercation is not that she was a bigot (which I don't think for one second that she was) nor that Brown called her one, it's the fact that:

 

a) Brown looked uneasy having to deal with her questions. She is a normal citizen of Britain and he is the PM, and he looked and sounded so uncomfortable at having to answer fairly basic questions that it was embarrassing.

 

b) His reaction to being asked not very difficult questions was to have a moan about "Sue", and call the old woman a bigot. He sounded petulant and it added to the stories of him being a bully.

 

c) He got caught! For fucks sake this is the most powerful man in the UK and he is coming across like Mr Bean, I was watching one of his talks last week with Darling and Mandy and he kept on whispering things to them but they were all picked up on the mike and broadcast, he didn't say anything bad that time, but for fucks sake this man has to deal with powerful and volatile heads of state. As posted before this would never happen to Blair, he was too slick, by the end I didn't like him much, but I was always confident that he knew what he was doing.

 

d) The apology, what the fuck, stick to your guns you spineless snivelling toad. He took ages to admit saying it and even in his apology he kept on saying if... if... if... You said it, just admit it, and then justify it. Something along the lines of

"I am sick of having people complain about immigration and the influx of immigrant workers they were responsible for the 12 years of economic growth we had under New Labour, and now people are quick to bash them when the going gets tough. It was not a comment about Mrs Old Woman, and I apologise for it seeming that I singled her out, but about the general state of the UK today, we were happy to use Eastern European labourers as a cheap work force when it suited us, but now there are a few problems we are all too quick to stick the boot in.

 

Too Mrs Whatsername, I'll be happy to discuss immigration and your concerns at a later date"

Cue awkward smile, photo opportunity, kiss a baby then retire to number 10 (not forgetting to remove all microphones before launching into blistering tirade against gays, blacks, the Irish and jews).

[Jose Jones]

I very rarely disagree with what you say, but on this one I do, the country is overpopulated, has been for a while and whilst we may potentially have the resources to sustain millions more people we currently don't, land prices are too high and sustainability is only possible through mass importing of basic goods.

 

I am concerned by immigration in the UK not only the scale but also the lack of control, we need certain types of workers in certain areas, and these gaps in employment can be filled by migrant workers. What we don't need is thousands of unskilled workers going to Britain when there aren't any jobs for the people already living there.

Regards little old lady vs PM.

The most disturbing thing about this altercation is not that she was a bigot (which I don't think for one second that she was) nor that Brown called her one, it's the fact that:

 

a) Brown looked uneasy having to deal with her questions. She is a normal citizen of Britain and he is the PM, and he looked and sounded so uncomfortable at having to answer fairly basic questions that it was embarrassing.

 

b) His reaction to being asked not very difficult questions was to have a moan about "Sue", and call the old woman a bigot. He sounded petulant and it added to the stories of him being a bully.

 

c) He got caught! For fucks sake this is the most powerful man in the UK and he is coming across like Mr Bean, I was watching one of his talks last week with Darling and Mandy and he kept on whispering things to them but they were all picked up on the mike and broadcast, he didn't say anything bad that time, but for fucks sake this man has to deal with powerful and volatile heads of state. As posted before this would never happen to Blair, he was too slick, by the end I didn't like him much, but I was always confident that he knew what he was doing.

 

d) The apology, what the fuck, stick to your guns you spineless snivelling toad. He took ages to admit saying it and even in his apology he kept on saying if... if... if... You said it, just admit it, and then justify it. Something along the lines of Cue awkward smile, photo opportunity, kiss a baby then retire to number 10 (not forgetting to remove all microphones before launching into blistering tirade against gays, blacks, the Irish and jews).

 

Indeed Ben.

Also maybe something along the lines of:

 

“The European Union is Britain’s largest trading partner and it’s important that Britain has strong ties with Europe to protect and promote business and jobs in this country. The European Union has also provided a lot of much needed funds to assist the economic growth of some of the more impoverished areas of Britain. There will be a number of things we disagree with in our partnerships, but sometimes you have to make compromises for the greater good. One of these could be considered the free movement of workers between European countries, but don’t forget Brits have the same rights to go and live and work in France and Spain for example, and many do.

 

There has been a large influx of migratory workers from various Eastern European countries, and this perhaps could have been managed better. The decisions and timescales followed to allow the old Eastern bloc countries into the EU and to enjoy the rights offered to citizens of Europe has been more of a political rather than economic decision. If we bring the former communist nations into the fold it is more likely to promote the development of social democracy in those nations which will lead to a more prosperous and politically settled Europe and thus benefits to Great Britain in the near term future.

 

Due to the wide gap in the standard of living between some of those Eastern European countries and the UK it means that initially we did experience higher numbers of migrant workers than will be the case in the long term. Most of the migrants come here to work and we should really be proud that they see Britain as a society they want to live and work in. Due to the recent global financial crisis, associated recession and increase in unemployment there has been a strain on people who have lost their jobs. I feel it’s important to work hard to get the economy back on track to improve the prospects of everyone in Britain, and a good working relationship with the countries in Europe is vital to that.”

 

5 minutes, job done, explain a bit of policy to a voter.

Instead of running away and calling her a bigot.

[Coro]

She said some stuff about immigration that was open to be judged and Brown judged it, it really isn't news

 

'You can't say anything about immigrants. All these Eastern Europeans, where are they flocking from?'

 

The only thing you could criticise the lady on is that she'd already answered her own question. Yes, East Europe dear but to say that is a bigoted comment or is open to judgement is farcical.

 

I agree that it's not really news to see Gordon Brown carrying on like a disingenuous fool or to find he is so out of touch with the common person.

 

Watching Newsnight i found it amusing when i heard one of Blair's former aids saying quite dismissively 'ah we've all done it!'.

 

Er no, not all of us have made offensive remarks about little old ladies so very publicly whilst in holding such a position of power and responsibility.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Coro