Substituting Torres; was it the correct decision?

[Red Phoenix]

Quite the contrary, it has been falling steadily. It started out at above 90% thinking it was wrong. It is currently below 80%.

 

Sorry missed this, and really? Surprising. I'd guess that over time it'll go back up though. Would love to see the numbers on this from thousands of fans aswell, would be cool to see what bigger numbers actually think about what happened.

 

Am thinking about N'gog aswell. If he'd only been spared of the pressure from the home fans there he might've put one of those away by being more relaxed. Just a shit day in general and I hope we don't have to go through stuff like that ever again.

[Captain]

If I was a statto I would be correlating the people who voted yes to this poll with the people who voted for the europa cup instead of fourth in your poll last week Captain, since that's the only reason Torres got hooked. You would think the answer here would be about 50/50 like that one, so it must have been a REALLY bad decision to get the vote it's getting.

 

If you did, you'd be very wrong in your assumption. 27 forumites have so far voted they prefer a trophy over fourth, only 3 of them support Rafa's decision to take Torres off.

 

Prefer trophy over fourth:

1892-LFCWasBorn, a stoner, bazza66, Captain √, Carra_is_legend, chris71, DJLJ, Doctor Troy, George Costanza, Jennings, Liam √, longballs, LP9, Matt83, melbred, mm2259, myrlas, OnizukaEikichi, PurpleNose, Red-Ed, RED.DUB, setreal, sir roger, Teflon Don, the boy, Vladi √, Walton Park

 

Agree with taking Torres off:

23_Carra_Gold, ali, AngryofTuebrook, aws, ben48, ChunkyBarcode, dave0101, Deadlogic, fungus, Gav √, George Costanza, gingerhulk, harryo63, Jens, JK1980, jpred, jsjazz, kacangpool, KevinM, kop, kopitelewis, lebron, LKI, Lucky Pierre √, makin123, Mick R, mm2259, ottawa_lfc, razor √, RedIndian, robbiefowler9, sabbathfan √, Scooby Dudek, Shreddy, sir roger, sm9, sputnik, Spy Bee, Strontium Dog √, t1971, TesticleOReilly, toneloc, Truered √, Turo

[Antynwa]

He should have been in serious trouble when we got beat by Pompey, incredibly serious trouble when we got beat by Reading, and if we lose to Benfica there is simply no way back for him.

 

They wouldn't accept it in Milan, Madrid, Barca, London or Manchester so why the hell we should accept it is beyond me.

[zigackly]

If you did, you'd be very wrong in your assumption. 27 forumites have so far voted they prefer a trophy over fourth, only 3 of them support Rafa's decision to take Torres off.

 

Prefer trophy over fourth:

1892-LFCWasBorn, a stoner, bazza66, Captain √, Carra_is_legend, chris71, DJLJ, Doctor Troy, George Costanza, Jennings, Liam √, longballs, LP9, Matt83, melbred, mm2259, myrlas, OnizukaEikichi, PurpleNose, Red-Ed, RED.DUB, setreal, sir roger, Teflon Don, the boy, Vladi √, Walton Park

 

Agree with taking Torres off:

23_Carra_Gold, ali, AngryofTuebrook, aws, ben48, ChunkyBarcode, dave0101, Deadlogic, fungus, Gav √, George Costanza, gingerhulk, harryo63, Jens, JK1980, jpred, jsjazz, kacangpool, KevinM, kop, kopitelewis, lebron, LKI, Lucky Pierre √, makin123, Mick R, mm2259, ottawa_lfc, razor √, RedIndian, robbiefowler9, sabbathfan √, Scooby Dudek, Shreddy, sir roger, sm9, sputnik, Spy Bee, Strontium Dog √, t1971, TesticleOReilly, toneloc, Truered √, Turo

 

Interesting. I personally prefer fourth place which is a big driver in my thinking it was a shit decision.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Don't know if this been mentioned yet.

 

Aldo just been on sly sports news talking about this.

 

He said no other manager in the premier league would of took him off.

[The Dude Abides]

Don't know if this been mentioned yet.

 

Aldo just been on sly sports news talking about this.

 

He said no other manager in the premier league would of took him off.

 

That's probably because Rafa is the most genius-est of them all.

[The Chief]

So judging by this poll, 46 people (so far) think Rafa can do no wrong at all, and at least One thinks it's Torres's fault, and he's a crying cunt who we should sell before he gets any worse!!! (or something like that). I know it beggars belief doesn't it? Sell Torres cos he's a moaner hahahahahaha.

 

Personally I just hope Rafa doesn't end up like Houllier, hated by most fans and given no credit whatsoever for pulling us out of the shite, and giving us one of our best ever seasons. But I think it may be too late for him now, as I think the majority, maybe only a small one, but the majority, have turned against him.

Edited April 6, 2010 by The Chief
shit spelling

[zigackly]

Personally I just hope Rafa doesn't end up like Houllier, hated by most fans and given no credit whatsoever for pulling us out of the shite, and giving us one of our best ever seasons. But I think it may be too late for him now, as I think the majority, maybe only a small one, but the majority, have turned against him.

 

Thinking he's come to the end of the line is not the same as not giving him any credit, Chief. Will always thank him for what he achieved here, but I think it's time for a change. Mind you I don't hate Ged either but he had to go when he did.

[Arl arse]

No, Shithouse stunt.

[WaltonRed]

Doesnt end up like Houllier?

 

He's already well on his way.

[Unrighteous]

If we had won the game it would have been the right decision. We didn't, so it wasn't.

 

This.

[Scooby Dudek]

So judging by this poll, 46 people (so far) think Rafa can do no wrong at all, and at least One thinks it's Torres's fault, and he's a crying cunt who we should sell before he gets any worse!!! (or something like that). I know it beggars belief doesn't it? Sell Torres cos he's a moaner hahahahahaha.

 

Personally I just hope Rafa doesn't end up like Houllier, hated by most fans and given no credit whatsoever for pulling us out of the shite, and giving us one of our best ever seasons. But I think it may be too late for him now, as I think the majority, maybe only a small one, but the majority, have turned against him.

 

How does thinking that in this case Rafa was correct become thinking Rafa can do no wrong? That is quite a jump.

 

I believe Rafa is now given no credit by most fans (as least on forums), 86 points last season is either forgotten or achieved inspite of Rafa not because of him. Even the 86 points is being used as a stick to beat, if he had pulled the shackles off earlier we would have won the league etc

[WaltonRed]

86 points was phenomenal, another challenge like it would of seen people still backing him.

 

But, another summer of woeful buys and a season starting and continuing with the same old bollocks have seen a lot of people give up on him.

[zigackly]

Precisely. It was a MASSIVE opportunity to go for the title this season, because that's how you get a win when you haven't got winning experience in the squad. Run it a close second and then use the lessons learned and the confidence you gain from it to kick on. If you look at just about every team that wins a title after a drought in just about every league, that's pretty much what happens, although of course there's the odd exception. Our opponents stood still in the market, or went backwards in the Mancs case so we should be up there challenging this season, but we fucked up our first team and went into the season with heads already dropped. The injuries didn't help matters, but don't account for such a massive dropoff in form, such shit football or such fucked up attitudes from our players. Basically we've completely imploded after being the second best team in Europe at the tail end of last season.

[Coro]

 

But, another summer of woeful buys and a season starting and continuing with the same old bollocks have seen a lot of people give up on him.

 

The Aquilani signing has turned out to be a mess but Johnson, the Greek and Maxi have all shown quality.

 

Given that our prospects in the transfer market have been seriously undermined, 3 out of 4 signings ain't so bad.

 

Far from woeful.

[The Chief]

How does thinking that in this case Rafa was correct become thinking Rafa can do no wrong? That is quite a jump.

 

I believe Rafa is now given no credit by most fans (as least on forums), 86 points last season is either forgotten or achieved in spite of Rafa not because of him. Even the 86 points is being used as a stick to beat, if he had pulled the shackles off earlier we would have won the league etc

 

Easy mate, read some of the posts from people who agreed with the substitution.

 

86 points last season was a tremendous achievement, but one thing Rafa hasn't learned in 6 years of being our manager is that most teams are scared of playing us,most teams come to Anfield to defend a point,so starting with 2 holding midfielders against the likes of West Ham and Fulham is just plain ludicrous, if he'd've used that knowledge last season and went out to WIN games instead of not getting beat we'd have been champions at the beginning of April.

 

I was one of the people who thought Rafa could do no wrong, I thought no matter what the score at half time we'd still be in with a chance, last season proved that, partly. but even the staunchest Rafaelite must admit to being stumped by some of his decisions and starting line ups.

[zigackly]

It's the players we didn't buy that were woeful, because the lack of cover in two positions we ALL knew needed strengthening has left us fucked. £37M on a right back with defensive frailties and a crock when we absolutely had to get a left back and a backup striker was a huge error, and for me both Rafa and the yanks are to blame for that. We should have cut our cloth to fit, not blew what we had to spend on sweets.

[WaltonRed]

The Aquilani signing has turned out to be a mess but Johnson, the Greek and Maxi have all shown quality.

 

Given that our prospects in the transfer market have been seriously undermined, 3 out of 4 signings ain't so bad.

 

Far from woeful.

 

The greek has been alright but he was hardly going to be the difference between 2nd and 1st considering its our attacking intent which lets us down.

 

Maxi signed in January so doesnt count.

 

Johnson has been hit and miss for me. I think once injury free he'll be cracking but 18m of money you werent getting was a lot for a full back for me.

 

Aquilani is the signing which he'll always be remembered for. Buying an Italian cripple for 20m and once fit you never play him anyway so what was the point?

[Coro]

Why doesn't Maxi count? He was signed this past season?

 

Are you not of the belief that the manager signed Johnson believing there was more money available to him?

[zigackly]

Are you not of the belief that the manager signed Johnson believing there was more money available to him?

 

I was at the time, but given his record surely he would have found a way to leak it to the press by now if that was true. I think that theory is partially borne out of disbelief that we didn't sign any attackers. He certainly didn't get the budget we all wanted him to get, that's for sure, but I'm not convinced he spent wisely and I'm not convinced he did it without knowledge of what he had to spend.

[Coro]

I was at the time, but given his record he would have found a way to leak it to the press by now if that was true.

 

If i remember rightly he said it in the press conference when Johnson was unveiled, that we still had money to sign another player without selling anyone, possibly even breaking our transfer record.

 

Something to that effect.

 

At the time we were being linked with the likes of Tevez.

[zigackly]

If i remember rightly he said it in the press conference when Johnson was unveiled, that we still had money to sign another player without selling anyone, possibly even breaking our transfer record.

 

Something to that effect.

 

At the time we were being linked with the likes of Tevez.

 

I don't remember the bit about breaking our transfer record, but I do remember the first bit. If he'd been told he had that money to spend and didn't get it, don't you think he would have kicked off though or at least leaked some juicy tidbits? He did after Athens and then spent a shitload that season. I think it's at best completely unknown but hopefully the truth will come out one day.

 

I completely ignore who we're linked with these days, it's generally total bullshit. Even after spending fuck all for two years we're still being linked with loads of expensive players.

 

EDIT: I've got a bit sidetracked here anyway, because I don't actually think it's just the transfer situation which has had us playing like braindead strangers all season. I still think we could have made a MUCH better fist of it with the resources we have in the squad right now. Even accounting for the injuries we should easily be in fourth.

Edited April 6, 2010 by zigackly

[Salte]

So judging by this poll, 46 people (so far) think Rafa can do no wrong at all, and at least One thinks it's Torres's fault, and he's a crying cunt who we should sell before he gets any worse!!! (or something like that). I know it beggars belief doesn't it? Sell Torres cos he's a moaner hahahahahaha.

 

I think he gets loads of stuff wrong. This season way too much. I just don't happend to think this was one of them.

 

My impression of Torres is that when he on occasion (like against Birmingham) is sulky and uninteresed he doesn't offer much (other recent examples are Lille away and Wigan away). There are exceptions like the very frequently mentioned game at Villa Park, but I can't think of many. Torres is at his best when he's fired up and in the mood, and thats when he gets the majority of his many great goals. Against Birmigham he wasn't.

[zigackly]

Villa, Fulham, Everton, that's just off the top of my head. Pretty sure there are plenty of other goals he's scored in the last 20 minutes out of nowhere too.

[Tom R]

The Greek is fucking shit.

 

I'll have no more talk of him being a successful signing. Least of all when he replaced Sami Hyypia.

 

Ridiculous.