UKIP

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I still don't get it. If the Cregan thing is true, the bloke broke the law and got locked up - no problem with that. No law against drawing a cartoon, I could draw a stick man, not offensive. I could then write Mohamed under it and some people would be willing to kill me.

 

Do you think?

 

Based on what?

 

It should go without saying that nothing can justify the killing of those cartoonists, but what they drew were not just stickmen.

[Rico1304]

Do you think?

 

Based on what?

 

It should go without saying that nothing can justify the killing of those cartoonists, but what they drew were not just stickmen.

By the punishment for idolatry seemingly being death? As some of you were fond of saying maybe I should take a stick drawing of Mo to a mosque and see what happens.

[VladimirIlyich]

Ive never had Islam shoved in my face so I dont really have that much of a problem with it. Same for Judaism,Hinduism,Buddhism et al. But Christianity/Catholicism is an entirely different situation.

[Rico1304]

Ive never had Islam shoved in my face so I dont really have that much of a problem with it. Same for Judaism,Hinduism,Buddhism et al. But Christianity/Catholicism is an entirely different situation.

But that's just an accident of birth isn't it?

[VladimirIlyich]

But that's just an accident of birth isn't it?

?

[Rico1304]

You hear more about the religion prevalent in your own country.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

You hear more about the religion prevalent in your own country.

I hear wa-a-a-ay too much about Islam, considering it's a minority religion in the UK.

 

Actually, I propbably hear a more-or-less proportionate amount of it from Muslims, but non-Muslims obsess about it (or what they imagine it to be) fucking constantly.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

By the punishment for idolatry seemingly being death? As some of you were fond of saying maybe I should take a stick drawing of Mo to a mosque and see what happens.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.  People are getting murdered for stickmen all the time.

 

I don't know if the Koran really says "death to anyone who draws the Prophet", but if it does, it's not something that actually gets enforced, is it?  Put it on the same pile of widely-ignored bonkersness as all those "abominations" in Leviticus, about mixing fabrics or podging your missus when she's up on blocks.

 

So, yeah, maybe you should take your stickman Mo to a Mosque, explain to someone there that you're conducting an experiment to see what will happen... and when you come out alive, you'll owe me a pint.

[VladimirIlyich]

You hear more about the religion prevalent in your own country.

Islam?

[Rotpeter]

Wait till they start proscribing beans on a fry-up and gravy on chips.  Tunes will change.

[Rico1304]

I hear wa-a-a-ay too much about Islam, considering it's a minority religion in the UK.

 

Actually, I propbably hear a more-or-less proportionate amount of it from Muslims, but non-Muslims obsess about it (or what they imagine it to be) fucking constantly.

In the UK, but as I do often hear there are over a billion Muslims in the world and some of those countries are often in the headlines.

[Rico1304]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.  People are getting murdered for stickmen all the time.

 

I don't know if the Koran really says "death to anyone who draws the Prophet", but if it does, it's not something that actually gets enforced, is it?  Put it on the same pile of widely-ignored bonkersness as all those "abominations" in Leviticus, about mixing fabrics or podging your missus when she's up on blocks.

 

So, yeah, maybe you should take your stickman Mo to a Mosque, explain to someone there that you're conducting an experiment to see what will happen... and when you come out alive, you'll owe me a pint.

Actually, why am I taking the risk? Gad Staad has challenged CJ Werleman to something very similar, but so far he's he's not taken him up on it. You'd probably get away with it in the UK but Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etcetc I doubt it. So, doesn't that show that progress can be made?

[Rico1304]

Oh and ask Majid Narwaz if he thinks he can go to Pakistan after he tweeted a picture of Jesus saying 'hey' & Mo saying 'how you doing?' -

[setreal]

The Titanic had the best "Mohammed caricatures" back when that thing in Denmark was in the news:

 

 

"Mohammed with his girlfriend Uschi"

[Jairzinho]

Actually, why am I taking the risk? Gad Staad has challenged CJ Werleman to something very similar, but so far he's he's not taken him up on it. You'd probably get away with it in the UK but Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etcetc I doubt it. So, doesn't that show that progress can be made?

 

This is where I find it very difficult to understand your view. Because you're a Tory that largely refuses to accept our responsibility for turning these, or maintaining these, countries as breeding grounds for religious extremists. We're part to blame for some of the biggest religious loons and worst aspects of religion being so prominent.

[Section_31]

 

Young Bin Laden with his family in Sweden. 

 

The notion that Islam is purely some kind of medievel shit where people have always been running around beheading people is a Daily Mailism pure and simple.

 

Ask anyone who lives in a muslim area in Britain and they'll tell you that up until fairly recently people went to huge lengths to fit in, wearing western clothes, getting involved in local politics etc. 

 

The rise in jihadism is probably as unwelcome to ordinary muslims as the behaviour of goldman sachs is to someone who owns a shoe shop. Both are capitalist, one is a radical departure from what they originally where that have been propogated by extreme politics and policy.

 

I'm not a beard stroker, far from it, I like watching CNN footage of laser guided bombs as much as the next man, but there's some obscene hypocracy thorwn around at our end on all this shit. We've caused a great deal of turmoil in that part of the world and it has produced radical factions which are not representative of the whole.  

[Rico1304]

This is where I find it very difficult to understand your view. Because you're a Tory that largely refuses to accept our responsibility for turning these, or maintaining these, countries as breeding grounds for religious extremists. We're part to blame for some of the biggest religious loons and worst aspects of religion being so prominent.

Of course we've fucked up, how could you deny it? But because you're left wing you seem unable to accept that the overriding issue is the religion itself. Without the ideology, without the book to back up the shit it couldn't happen.

[setreal]

Of course we've fucked up, how could you deny it? But because you're left wing you seem unable to accept that the overriding issue is the religion itself. Without the ideology, without the book to back up the shit it couldn't happen.

 

"Left-wing" is actually very often very anti-religious. "Unable to accept" would imply that it somehow can be determined and generalized what the overriding issue is. In reality, things are much more complex. I took a seminar some time ago about the socio- and psychogenesis of islamic suicide attackers, which very much dealt with the things that come into play in these situations, which was very enlightening.

[Section_31]

Of course we've fucked up, how could you deny it? But because you're left wing you seem unable to accept that the overriding issue is the religion itself. Without the ideology, without the book to back up the shit it couldn't happen.

 

Why is it the religion itself? What is it about their religion that has led to the formation of groups like Al Queeda? 

 

They're a direct result of foreign aggression. The Mujahadeen and Bin Laden were fighting the Russians (with backing from the CIA), ISIS started life in Iraq fighting the yanks, then figting President Assad (who we wanted to bomb).

 

You talk as though they're on some kind of holy crusade to free the west of christian idoelogy, when in fact what they are is violent people who're meeting violence with violence. None of that is about them being muslim, it's about their part of the world being in a constant state of war. 

[Jairzinho]

Of course we've fucked up, how could you deny it? But because you're left wing you seem unable to accept that the overriding issue is the religion itself. Without the ideology, without the book to back up the shit it couldn't happen.

 

As Setreal and Sec have said, it's far more complex an issue than you seem to want to frame it as. As for the bit in bold, what an odd thing to say. Most anti-religious views are from the left, and most of the biggest religious nuts are on the right. This is why I find your stance so odd.

[VladimirIlyich]

Maybe some moderate muslims/atheists in a largely muslim country are saying the same about Blair/Bush/Cameron/Obama etc and reckon its Christianity that is the problem?

PS I know Obama is allegedly a Muslim but has a funny way of showing any kind of belief in system of beliefs where life is considered sacred.

[Section_31]

Maybe some moderate muslims/atheists in a largely muslim country are saying the same about Blair/Bush/Cameron/Obama etc and reckon its Christianity that is the problem?

PS I know Obama is allegedly a Muslim but has a funny way of showing any kind of belief in system of beliefs where life is considered sacred.

 

Nah Obama reckons he's christian, although I suspect he's athiest and needs to keep up appearnces. 

 

None of the loony right in the states give a genuine shit about religion, it's just part of the look. 

[Rico1304]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgzZMKhY5PY

[Stu Monty]

Why is it the religion itself? What is it about their religion that has led to the formation of groups like Al Queeda? 

 

They're a direct result of foreign aggression. The Mujahadeen and Bin Laden were fighting the Russians (with backing from the CIA), ISIS started life in Iraq fighting the yanks, then figting President Assad (who we wanted to bomb).

 

You talk as though they're on some kind of holy crusade to free the west of christian idoelogy, when in fact what they are is violent people who're meeting violence with violence. None of that is about them being muslim, it's about their part of the world being in a constant state of war. 

 

Not sure that ISIS fit that well into your picture there though Sec. They aren't fighting foreign oppression really, they are very much cleansing what they see as wayward muslims and setting course for a far more conservative and strict edict. I'm not sure how you get away from that being very much about religion. 

 

Lots and lots of global muslims quite like the old Sharia (even quite a few of the very small, most liberal, percentage of the whole gang that live over here I'd venture). Muddying the water with the idea that people are calling them terrorists or saying they back jihad doesn't get away from that fact. Sharia is bad. It's a bad thing for a society. So progressive people will keep pointing out that it's a dangerous nonsense that should be challenged. 

 

 

Nah Obama reckons he's christian, although I suspect he's athiest and needs to keep up appearnces. 

 

None of the loony right in the states give a genuine shit about religion, it's just part of the look.

 

Not sure how you can say that with any confidence.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Of course we've fucked up, how could you deny it? But because you're left wing you seem unable to accept that the overriding issue is the religion itself. Without the ideology, without the book to back up the shit it couldn't happen.

Well, quite.  Look at Cambodia.  The US bombed the fuck out of it, killing thousands of civilians and devastating the place, much the same as they later did in Afghanistan and Iraq.  But, because there wasn't the religion, the ideology, the book in Cambodia, no groups of psycho loonies popped up and nothing bad happened there whatsoever.