Who exactly has Rafa 'lost'

[sir roger]

Keep reading that Rafa has 'lost' the team & they are not playing for him , but I wonder if this is a blanket thing or more selective.

 

My opinion on each player

 

Still fully committed;

 

Reina , Arbeloa , Sami , Skertl , Agger ( presumably ) , Benayoun , Masch , Lucas , Pennant , Babel , Kuyt , Torres.

 

Not sure whether it is poor form or loss of faith in Rafa

 

Finnan , Aurelio , Riise , Alonso

 

Shit

 

Itandje , Voronin

 

Want Rafa out

 

Gerrard - never been an easy relationship & despite what was said at the time , I think Goodison was the watershed.

 

Carragher - most surprisingly , as Rafa has lavished praise on him like nobody else over the past 4 years & only blemish on Rafa's side would seem to be the right back kerfuffle the other week. Think the problems are rooted earlier however as he has declined to back Rafa on numerous occasions this season.

To myself who saw him as my ' nearest equivalent on the pitch ' I feel Carra's stock has plummeted. Maybe friendship with Steven has outranked his relationship with Rafa & affection for the club.

 

Crouch - possibly with some justification , but some performances have been awful

 

Kewell - The aussie with the most swollen stomach since Boney ,although he could possibly be in the second band as he has showed little urgency in most of his LFC career

 

In essence , I don't think it is a massive proportion of the team involved & possibly recoverable, but admittedly the main 2 players in the team are involved which raises the level of the problem.

 

I think if Rafa survives he may have to bite the bullet & let Steven leave , as , fantastic as he is , he throws us out tactically & is becoming a bit 'Thierry Shearerish' at the club.

 

Obviously accept that Rafa is more likely to go , but hope he doesn't.

[Moschops II]

I think you've put your finger on one of the club's bigest problems there, and one which is only going to continue whoever comes into manage us next.

[Unrighteous]

The only ones that matter are the ones the other players look up to: Gerrard and Carragher.

[bigal]

'Thierry Shearerish'

 

:smile:

 

some fair points there. If he has 'lost' Gerrard and Carra then their influence is so big in the dressing room that it must be uncomfortable in there

[sir roger]

The only ones that matter are the ones the other players look up to: Gerrard and Carragher.

 

How long will they look up to them when their diffidence becomes obvious.

 

I can't imagine Pepe running 90 yards to be made to look stupid next time Carra makes an assist.

 

( I realise he could be retired by then )

[jsjazz]

A few of the players have come out and backed Rafa e.g. Riise (maybe coz he thought it was his only chance of a new contract :thumbup:), Torres, and I think Alonso.

The silence from Gerrard (who was happy enough to support Houllier) and Carragher has been deafening - disappointing really.

Rumours of Gerrard and Carragher shaking ther heads at substitutions may just be rumours- I hope.

I've not wanted Gerrard to be sold, because I don't believe there are many players better than him ], and buying two players half as good with the money is pointless as you can only play one at a time in his position in the team, BUT he should look at the pictures of himself lifting no. 5 with Rafa and show some loyalty and gratitude.

[memyselfandpie]

 

some fair points there. If he has 'lost' Gerrard and Carra then their influence is so big in the dressing room that it must be uncomfortable in there

 

As much as I like these Two as players I wish they'd know their Fucking roles and shut up and just do their jobs and play football. If they want to manage the club then they can do it when their careers are over and they have the badges. Until then, they are players and should warrant no more than respect for ther ability.

 

All else they should stay out of.

[Red_Jim83]

Personally I think Gerrard has believed that he is bigger than the club for quite some time, he needs to remember that Rafa made him captain and kept him as captain even after he nearly left for Chelsea...Steve that's called loyalty, check it out.

[aws]

Assuming that Bascombe had the "go-ahead" for his article a few weeks ago (which I think is a fair assumption) then it's pretty clear that our captain and vice-captain have decided to undermine the manager publicly or at the very least stand aside while the yanks rip our club apart.

[WaltonRed]

Personally I think Gerrard has believed that he is bigger than the club for quite some time, he needs to remember that Rafa made him captain and kept him as captain even after he nearly left for Chelsea...Steve that's called loyalty, check it out.

 

Houllier made him skipper.

 

That original post is so unreal im speechless.

 

JC's stock has plummeted because he can see what thousands of supporters can but the blind few cant?

[Duff Man]

Skirtle apparently

 

Damn shame that.

[Rashid]

I think you've put your finger on one of the club's bigest problems there, and one which is only going to continue whoever comes into manage us next.

 

I don't want Mourinho but do you think the players wouldn't play for him? Do you not think there are managers out there who can keep players motivated e.g. O'Neill? I want neither here due to the style of play but I think your last sentence is over stating it mate.

[WaltonRed]

I don't want Mourinho but do you think the players wouldn't play for him? Do you not think there are managers out there who can keep players motivated e.g. O'Neill? I want neither here due to the style of play but I think your last sentence is over stating it mate.

 

for once you speak sense.

[Red_Jim83]

Houllier made him skipper.

 

That original post is so unreal im speechless.

 

JC's stock has plummeted because he can see what thousands of supporters can but the blind few cant?

 

I'm open to correction here, but wasn't Hyypia captain under Houllier?

 

But I still stand by my comments about Rafa showing loyality to Gerrard.

[Steve]

Gerrard still makes my blood boil, since 2004 I have never sung his name, not even after the last minute equaliser in the cup final against West Ham. The fact that Torres has made such a sensational start to his Reds career probably isnt doing his ego much good either. If Xabi redisovers his form, Lucas keeps progressing and we secure Mascherano, I'd happily invite a bidding war for him.

[Steve]

I'm open to correction here, but wasn't Hyypia captain under Houllier?

 

But I still stand by my comments about Rafa showing loyality to Gerrard.

 

Houllier stripped Hyypia of the captaincy midway through the 2003-4 season and installed Gerrard.

[sir roger]

Houllier made him skipper.

 

That original post is so unreal im speechless.

 

JC's stock has plummeted because he can see what thousands of supporters can but the blind few cant?

 

As far as I can see , Jamie has been feted by the manager in public as much as all of the other players together. All I feel is that if a manager in work looked after me this well , I would hope that when he found himself in difficulties I would try & help , rather than looking at my shoes & giving him the 'Et Tu Brute' routine.

 

You should read my comments in the light of Jamie being my favourite player at the club for some time , hence my sadness at the situation.

[ratcatcher]

I'm open to correction here, but wasn't Hyypia captain under Houllier?

 

But I still stand by my comments about Rafa showing loyality to Gerrard.

 

Sami was Houllier's first captain but he gave it to Gerrard.

 

TBH, I dont have a problem if two of our influential players ie Gerrard and Carragher have made their feelings known to Benitez. But once again, I suspect this thread is just another excuse to have a go at Gerrard and now Carragher.

 

Someone needs to tell Benitez he's going wrong because he's becoming obstinate to the point of obsession.

[WaltonRed]

As far as I can see , Jamie has been feted by the manager in public as much as all of the other players together. All I feel is that if a manager in work looked after me this well , I would hope that when he found himself in difficulties I would try & help , rather than looking at my shoes & giving him the 'Et Tu Brute' routine.

 

You should read my comments in the light of Jamie being my favourite player at the club for some time , hence my sadness at the situation.

 

JC works with him everyday, he's been loyal and totally committed and If he has indeed loast faith I doubt he did it willy nilly.

[King Emlyn]

I'm open to correction here, but wasn't Hyypia captain under Houllier?

 

But I still stand by my comments about Rafa showing loyality to Gerrard.

Gerard Houllier took the captaincy of Hyypia and gave it to Gerrard who's been captain ever since.

[stringvest]

Interesting hypothesis, but that's all it is. There's too much speculation in there for me to give an opinion.

[Red_Jim83]

Houllier stripped Hyypia of the captaincy midway through the 2003-4 season and installed Gerrard.

 

Fair enough, my mistake. he still stood by him though!

[sir roger]

Sami was Houllier's first captain but he gave it to Gerrard.

 

TBH, I dont have a problem if two of our influential players ie Gerrard and Carragher have made their feelings known to Benitez. But once again, I suspect this thread is just another excuse to have a go at Gerrard and now Carragher.

Someone needs to tell Benitez he's going wrong because he's becoming obstinate to the point of obsession.

 

Not me RC , like both & respect both , but not happy at all with the way they have seemingly played politics to look after themselves rather than the club.

 

If they have tried to help Rafa & he has thrown it in their face , then it would obviously cast a different light on the situation.

[WaltonRed]

Not me RC , like both & respect both , but not happy at all with the way they have seemingly played politics to look after themselves rather than the club.

 

If they have tried to help Rafa & he has thrown it in their face , then it would obviously cast a different light on the situation.

 

They are looking after the club, I wish people could see that. Im not denying rafa has the clubs best interests at heart but its simply not working.

[sir roger]

Interesting hypothesis, but that's all it is. There's too much speculation in there for me to give an opinion.

 

 

Fair enough - just tried to read body language on & off the pitch & the reams of newspaper materials to come to as reasonable a conclusion as possible.