US Election Thread 2016

[Jairzinho]

There's a lot of truth in that, and it's a ridiculous state of affairs given the volume of issues that affect countless lives beyond those two issues. 

 

I looked into abortion stats and it's interesting that it appears to make no difference in the amount of abortions, whether the President is pro-life or pro-choice. In fact, you could argue that under the Democrats the abortion rate goes down, which is interesting, as typically Democrats are pro-choice and Republicans are pro-life. A cursory glance at the last two Presidents is interesting. Under Bush, there were approx. 850,000 abortions per annum in the United States. Under Obama that drops by around 100,000 per annum, on average. 

 

It's a but crude, but Republicans seem to care a lot about life in the womb; whereas Democrats seem to care about life to the tomb. So arguably, if the lot of poor people is improved, as it tends to be under Democrat rule, the propensity to want to have an abortion seems to go down, presumably because the mother sees a way forward to carry the baby full term and bring him/her into the world.

 

As for guns, that issue is nuts beyond belief to this Englishman living in America.

 

I'm not seeing any candidate offering anything that will make very much difference at all. Hillary is pro second amendment, as is Trump. The only difference is Hillary would be in favor of beefing up background checks and closing gun show loopholes which make it easier for criminals or loons to buy more and more guns as there are no background checks. If, say, 30,000 people die every year due to firearms (I can't be bothered looking up the stats, but it's in that range); then the difference between Hillary and Trump will be negligible, though I'd expect fatalities to be slightly less under Hillary.  

 

The lot of poor people is dictated by the dominant economic ideology of the day, it has very little to do with which of your two right wing parties is governing. Since the late 70s economic inequality has widened regardless of who is in "power".

[TheHowieLama]

I said very early on in this thread - a wealthy Democrat has far more in common with a wealthy Republican than anyone else they will ever meet.

[Red Phoenix]

From Wikileaks :

 

 

DoJ Assistant Attorney Peter Kadzik outed as a mole for Hillary Clinton campaign : https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/43150#efmABWAB8ACiACqACvADUADXAIF

 

[Red Phoenix]

Cheers. I was just going by what I was watching on tv as I typed - I think the channel was NBC.

 

Obviously there has been lots of misinformation, or partial information being used incorrectly, in and around the whole race. We'll know one way or the other in just a few days. My sense is a large win for Hillary, but we'll see.

 

As for rating the candidates, I don't like her... but I like Trump even less. I think Gary Johnson is lacking, and Jill Stein has some good ideas that will have to become more mainstream as we move into the future, but I feel if I vote for her I'll be throwing my vote away, given the strength of the two main parties and the electoral college system.

 

If there was reform, I'd vote cleanly for the candidate that espouses most policies in keeping with what I think. Ideally that's what you want right across the board for democracy to function as it should, but there are layers of complicating factors and tactics in this election.

 

I will likely vote for Hillary, but I do think she will be a one term President beset by problems. Further, if that helps the Republicans get their act together they'll be in for the following two terms, I would have thought.

 

If Trump wins (I don't think he will) I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that some of the crazy stuff doesn't happen. Again, I'd expect him to be a one term President, and I'd expect the Democrats to put up a strong candidate in four years - someone who is not plagued by all the corruption and hassle that surrounds Hillary. I suggested Cory Booker as the person who will emerge under those circumstances, but we'll see.

 

I also think the climate to try to impeach either Hillary or Trump is growing, whoever should win, in keeping with the all round nastiness around this election.

 

The media has been badly biased for the most part, it seems to be slowly coming around to being a bit more neutral now though. I can understand your reasons for voting for Clinton as well, and agree that whoever it is there's going to be talk of impeachment by the looks of it.

 

Will have a look at Cory Booker too, thanks for mentioning.

[Cardie]

From Wikileaks :

Ermahgerd...

[TheHowieLama]

RP:

 

Supreme Court?

 

Guns?

 

Abortion?

 

Taxation?

 

Anything?!?

[TheHowieLama]

The media has been badly biased for the most part,

 

[Red Phoenix]

RP:

 

Supreme Court?

 

Guns?

 

Abortion?

 

Taxation?

 

Anything?!?

 

If that's about me posting on Clinton again, isn't this getting a bit tired at this stage? There's almost a full thread of posters against Trump and not posting about Clinton. If anything my focus on Clinton is actually providing balance to the thread, even though I can't see anyone admitting it. If that's false, then who else is there? I can only see Iceman posting about Wikileaks at the moment.

 

So is that what you and others think is best for the thread? Near blanket ignorance of Clinton? This is why I'm talking about it being like the Borg collective.

 

If you or others want info on Trump, find some and post it. There's nobody stopping you. Cloggypop has been posting some stuff recently, why not do the same? It's better than going on at me and actually helps provide information on the election.

 

If I've missed the point of your post which isn't really clear to be honest, most of this still stands anyway.

[Neil G]

This is because the Democrats typically expand access to contraception, thus preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place, whereas Republicans do whatever they can to limit access to contraception.

 

A party that was genuinely anti-abortion would support access to contraception. This is how you know that the Republicans aren't anti-abortion, they are anti-women. Their worldview is rooted in the idea that folk, especially women, ought to be punished for indulging in recreational sex outside of (hetero) marriage.

American conservatives: people who want to shrink government until it's small enough to fit in the bedroom.

[Strontium]

If that's about me posting on Clinton again, isn't this getting a bit tired at this stage?

 

Not half.

 

People aren't going to let you ignore the fact that your preference for Trump over Clinton, however slight you may claim it to be, means a preference for removing women's reproductive rights, tax cuts for the rich, loosening of gun controls, institutional xenophobia and racism, and a million and one other equally nasty things.

 

But Hillary has cocktails with bankers occasionally, so that makes her the antichrist, or something.

 

All I can say is thank goodness you haven't got a vote in this.

[Red Phoenix]

Not half.

 

People aren't going to let you ignore the fact that your preference for Trump over Clinton, however slight you may claim it to be, means a preference for removing women's reproductive rights, tax cuts for the rich, loosening of gun controls, institutional xenophobia and racism, and a million and one other equally nasty things.

 

But Hillary has cocktails with bankers occasionally, so that makes her the antichrist, or something.

 

All I can say is thank goodness you haven't got a vote in this.

 

I'd prefer to have been able to vote, I think Stein needs all of the help she can get.

 

"cocktails with bankers occasionally." It's this type of bullshit that's been one of the main things keeping me posting, just so you know. The ignorance of it.

[cloggypop]

 

 

I think Stein needs all of the help she can get.

 

Everyone that believes in homeopathy does.

[Red Phoenix]

People aren't going to let you ignore the fact that your preference for Trump over Clinton, however slight you may claim it to be, means a preference for removing women's reproductive rights, tax cuts for the rich, loosening of gun controls, institutional xenophobia and racism, and a million and one other equally nasty things.

 

So is this what all of the people voting Green will be preferring too then? Because by voting for a third party surely it means they prefer all of these things, right?

 

Anyone?

[Red Phoenix]

Maybe it's best if we all just stop arguing, because there's only going to be one outcome on the 8th anyway.

 

[TheHowieLama]

 

If I've missed the point of your post which isn't really clear to be honest, most of this still stands anyway.

 

I have plenty of info - from all kinds of sources.

 

I was asking you if you had an opinion on anything.

 

You can trust me that the topics above are far more important to America than anything you have posted so I was just interested.

[Boss]

Anyone stupid enough to think this man's going to go after the big corporations and the top 1% because he funded his campaign and doesn't have to take orders from special interest groups deserves what they get. He's part of the 1%. He's not going to repel laws that benefit him and his own corporations is he?

[Cardie]

Everyone that believes in homeopathy does.

 

Greedy bastards, is a one part onion to a million parts water cancer cure not enough for them.

[Red Phoenix]

I have plenty of info - from all kinds of sources.

 

I was asking you if you had an opinion on anything.

 

You can trust me that the topics above are far more important to America than anything you have posted so I was just interested.

 

Even though some agents at the FBI have revolted and seem to be doing some good, I'm generally against the federal government. So almost every issue you can put to me is something that I think should be decided by the people of each state and implemented at state level, with their own votes on the subjects.

 

So if the Greens came to power why would I support them if they're at the federal level? Because they're the most democratic party in the race. I don't support Greens as if they're the answer to everything, I support them because in several countries now, they're the party that wants to give people a say in their own lives more than other well known parties do.

[TheHowieLama]

That is a fair answer - at least it seems truthful. 

 

It should also give you some insight as to why on a US Election thread some are not taking you seriously because even with a direct question on major topics, you have dodged taking any position and tried to move the conversation into other countries and ideology.

 

I would be interested as - and you may be the only person on Earth - you have professed support for the Left (Greens are not really a thing in America - they are the most divided bunch of the lot cuz they are more focused on being ever more Greener than each other in some very weird tribal tree hug off competition) that has somehow decided that between the two candidates, Trump is more aligned in any way shape or form with your core beliefs.

 

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I was watching the news yesterday ( I can't remember which channel it was) and they were interviewing some chubby old Trump supporter. 

 

She said, "I think the majority of things Donald Trump says are taking out of content." Doh. 

[Red Phoenix]

I would be interested as - and you may be the only person on Earth - you have professed support for the Left (Greens are not really a thing in America - they are the most divided bunch of the lot cuz they are more focused on being ever more Greener than each other in some very weird tribal tree hug off competition) that has somehow decided that between the two candidates, Trump is more aligned in any way shape or form with your core beliefs.

 

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

I'm just going to have to stop responding to posts like this, it's been going on for dozens of pages.

 

I prefer neither Trump or Clinton.

 

If Trump wins we might end up with Pence because Trump might get impeached. If Clinton wins we might end up with Kaine because Clinton might get impeached. So we could have Trump, Clinton, Kaine or Pence. I like none of them, but I won't pretend to know who could be best for the US and the rest of the world.

 

So I don't prefer Trump, even if I'm posting about how I think Clinton is going to fail and how corrupt she is in so many areas.

 

You and others can carry on asking but it won't change this. I'll maybe start linking back to this post if it carries on instead of typing anything, it's just stupid. Glad there's less than a week of it left.

 

We could end up with either Trump, Pence, Kaine or Clinton. Saying I prefer Trump just because you're not happy with me posting about Clinton, who seems to be failing more by the day, doesn't = supporting Trump.

[ZonkoVille77]

http://blog.paddypower.com/politics/2016/10/25/irvine-welsh-us-election-donald-trump/?AFF_ID=16562

[Red Phoenix]

I've noticed something that you've all conveniently avoided as well, even though you know deep down that it's true, despite the inner denials : http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/index.php?/topic/109983-us-election-thread-2016/?p=4628464

[Razoray]

Lad at work put 1K on trump a month ago at 7/2. Looks a strong possibility now.

Was 6/1 7 days ago. Looked dead and buried

[polymerpunkah]

Even though some agents at the FBI have revolted and seem to be doing some good, I'm generally against the federal government. So almost every issue you can put to me is something that I think should be decided by the people of each state and implemented at state level, with their own votes on the subjects.

 

So if the Greens came to power why would I support them if they're at the federal level? Because they're the most democratic party in the race. I don't support Greens as if they're the answer to everything, I support them because in several countries now, they're the party that wants to give people a say in their own lives more than other well known parties do.

 

If you think the individual states are going to do a better job promoting Green Party values, you might want to read some history.